Supra vs. Supra
Discussion
Hello there,
I'm planning to buy a Toyota Supra markIV, as I always had a thing for this car.
I have found two that I like:
A white 1994, 5-speed single turbo with exhaust, fuel regulator and FCD.
OR
A red 1998, 6-speed completely stock except for an exhaust system and BOV.
Now the red one is cleaner and it's originally a turbo, but the white one is engine swapped.
The red one is asking double the price of the white. I know I want high HP later on, so I will need to get a v160 for the white one only.
Help me decide.
I'm planning to buy a Toyota Supra markIV, as I always had a thing for this car.
I have found two that I like:
A white 1994, 5-speed single turbo with exhaust, fuel regulator and FCD.
OR
A red 1998, 6-speed completely stock except for an exhaust system and BOV.
Now the red one is cleaner and it's originally a turbo, but the white one is engine swapped.
The red one is asking double the price of the white. I know I want high HP later on, so I will need to get a v160 for the white one only.
Help me decide.
Veeayt said:
If you have money go for the red one. As simple as that. That'll cost you much less headache, and would hold its value much better, since it's almost original, unmodified and newer too. But I guess you know that.
Less headache you are true, but aren't all Supras are holding their value?But? I don't want to keep it unmodified!
I take it the white car has a 2JZ-GTE in it, rather than a converted 2JZ-GE. To be fair, both can take plenty of power, but I'd have thought a genuine 2JZ-GTE would probably be worth a bit more than an NA-T conversion. What are the details of the single turbo conversion? Is it running Syvecs or something similar, it doesn't sound like it from your brief description?
V160s are getting to be absolutely ridiculous in price these days, I've seen some for sale for £4k and generally at least £3k seems to be the going rate. If it were me, I'd probably get the red car and do whatever modifications you have planned the way I wanted them done. You can always return it to standard and sell the parts later.
V160s are getting to be absolutely ridiculous in price these days, I've seen some for sale for £4k and generally at least £3k seems to be the going rate. If it were me, I'd probably get the red car and do whatever modifications you have planned the way I wanted them done. You can always return it to standard and sell the parts later.
asirvr4 said:
Less headache you are true, but aren't all Supras are holding their value?
But? I don't want to keep it unmodified!
I speak purely in terms of original vs non-original engine conversion. The latter will never be on par. Also, consider the value of 5-spd vs 6-spd turbo GetragBut? I don't want to keep it unmodified!
Sure you can modify it, keeping all the original parts so you can always get it back to the unmodified form.
I would agree that if you are going to modify it there is less point in paying more for an original car. If I were doing it again I would buy something already modified due to the huge money loss on modified parts, twenty thousand pounds worth of mods to a jap rocket will only increase the value by a small percent generally, so utilise someone elses money!
That said if it is obvious it has been poorly built and or ragged to within an inch of its life I would avoid...
That said if it is obvious it has been poorly built and or ragged to within an inch of its life I would avoid...
Stock turbo 6-speed every time.
Used to own a 6-speed turbo back in the day, great cars and underrated by many due to what people assume was the 'better car' in the Skyline.
As has been said it seems the prices of good conditions Supra Turbos have bottomed out and are steadily, slowly increasing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they are becoming a 'collectible'.
Nice capable driver's car from my experience, comfortable GT in stock form going in to a track focused power-house with money chucked at it.
Good luck with your search.
Also the people in the know can be found over on the MkIVSupra.net forum......
http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/forum.php
Used to own a 6-speed turbo back in the day, great cars and underrated by many due to what people assume was the 'better car' in the Skyline.
As has been said it seems the prices of good conditions Supra Turbos have bottomed out and are steadily, slowly increasing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they are becoming a 'collectible'.
Nice capable driver's car from my experience, comfortable GT in stock form going in to a track focused power-house with money chucked at it.
Good luck with your search.
Also the people in the know can be found over on the MkIVSupra.net forum......
http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/forum.php
asirvr4 said:
ILoveMondeo said:
Just my opinion but if you're going to be modding get the cheaper car if it's generally all in good condition.
No point paying a premium for a minty oem example if you're going to tinker with it.
Yes, because if half the price, for all that money I can do so much.No point paying a premium for a minty oem example if you're going to tinker with it.
In addition (This may not be a concern for you) you'll likely destroy the value of the mint original condition one by modding it too. They are modern classics these days, have a look at skyline prices, an unmolested example is going to command much better money and sell better than something that's well modified (unless it's an utterly bonkers spec modification), and you'll never see that mod money back again in resale price. It's often not cost effective to de-modify to sell parts either.
You'll probably end up swapping the gearbox anyway for something with different ratios to suit the power and driving you want to do (I'm guessing 1/4 mile?) with it at some point anyway, so I'd suggest that not having the 6th gear is such a big deal?
Which one to drive as it is, love and cherish and keep as standard, I concur with others, get the red one. It'll likely go up in value if you look after it.
For modding, the white one all day long.
asirvr4 said:
zeppelin101 said:
Just getting hold of a V160 gearbox is going to put a significant dent in whatever saving you might make buying the 5spd over 6spd.
I am not worried about money, because as per my calc that saving would get me about four of 6spd gearboxes.If you can afford it buy the more original one and modify it to how you want rather than having one already modified. It will give you a fresh canvas to do as you please.
Don't listen to them going on about 'keeping its value' or 'chavving it up'. If they had read you post then they would realise that; yes you plan on modifying it (not chavving it up), and you don't care about the car retaining value, otherwise you would have said.
Pistonheads, where modifying your car usually automatically labels you as a chav and where depreciation and 'holds its value better' are of highest concern. You only live once, buy what you want and do what you want with it.
Don't listen to them going on about 'keeping its value' or 'chavving it up'. If they had read you post then they would realise that; yes you plan on modifying it (not chavving it up), and you don't care about the car retaining value, otherwise you would have said.
Pistonheads, where modifying your car usually automatically labels you as a chav and where depreciation and 'holds its value better' are of highest concern. You only live once, buy what you want and do what you want with it.
Having done lots of research before buying my TT a few months ago, Id go for the red one, a rarer colour, manual and the 5 speed box on the white one will not last with the single coversion depending on power/mods.
I have an auto tiptronic myself, Ive not really driven it properly yet due to having some work done but I wish I had bought a 6 speed, cant get used to the transmission as Ive never driven one before but Ive not tried the tiptronic which is supposed to be way better.
BPU (Basic Performance Upgrade) the standard one and enjoy 400+bhp for less than £2000. Least you will know what has been done it and that its done properly either by yourself or a garage.
I have an auto tiptronic myself, Ive not really driven it properly yet due to having some work done but I wish I had bought a 6 speed, cant get used to the transmission as Ive never driven one before but Ive not tried the tiptronic which is supposed to be way better.
BPU (Basic Performance Upgrade) the standard one and enjoy 400+bhp for less than £2000. Least you will know what has been done it and that its done properly either by yourself or a garage.
Had a '97 SZ-R back in the day. Keep seeing V160 mentioned here, but I seem to remember mine being a V161... happy to be corrected on this!
Whatever the designation of the box, it was a meaty old thing. Was convinced it had a short-shift kit fitted, but after a couple of OC meets was assured that it was just the natural short-throw, snickey shift of the box.
It is pretty agricultural, and can resist smooth changes until warmed up fully.
As stated already, these Getrag boxes are worth a bloody fortune now. I worried about mine quite a bit as it was noisier than I was used to, but in hindsight Im convinced this was simply due to the heavy-duty nature of the box. Part of the reason I sold it on was concern that the box might bork, which I now know is daft as they can take silly power without issue.
If you need the extra dollar to mod it yourself (which I totally understand), buy the non-red one. If Ive read the thread correctly, the non-6 spd one is an NA-T conversion. If that's the case, definitely go for the factory 6 spd TT. NA-T is fine, but it'll never give the peace of mind that a factory TT will. It also won't have the same resale value. NA-Ts don't go for that much more than NAs, and like anything of this nature the quality of the kit/ workmanship will vary.
Whichever you choose, just relax and enjoy mkiv ownership (I also had an auto NA daily). They are fantastic cars in every way- both of mine being notable for being bulletproof reliable over a couple years ownership. They waft like an LS, and are surprisingly comfortable despite initial impressions of the cabin being tight/ the dash being massive. Im 6'2", and did find that my left knee was pressed against the dash in my prefferred driving position (in the manual), although it was bearable. I was a keen modifier at the time- take it from an experienced owner that they are bloody loud, even with a fairly tame cat-back exhaust/ intake setup.
Don't over-tyre unless you have the huge power to match- mine was virtually stock and struggled to overcome the grip of the wide Advan rears unless provoked to the extreme. Check what brakes they have- UK spec brakes are bigger and much more desirable than JDMs. Rear seats are useless for grown ups, squeezed 3 adults in the back once and it looked like a torture chamber.
Cars with dark carpets (sorry, haven't looked at the links!) are more desirable. Owners with light coloured carpets always want to take them out and dye them black! Mine had a black leather(ette) headlining, which really lifted the cabin. Facelift dash binnacles with the 5 rather than 3 dial face are sought after, as is the rather fighterjet-esque analogue clock. My NA had an aftermarket dash binnacle kit, which had white dials backlit with blue (common aftermarket mod), which again is a worthwhile mod that really lifts the interior. Ashtray recess holds an IPhone rather nicely if you have a head unit with a front aux connection.
Stock seats are very comfortable, but lack lateral support, particularly given the cars' ability to corner aggressively. My 6 spd came with a Recaro drivers' seat which was an excellent mod. The main thing I'd say about mkiv ownership is the positive attention you get. People absolutely love them, and seem to view them as much more exotic than they actually are. I got pulled by a rather stern old copper after fitting my Do-Luck front, which at the time had no number plate fitted (fixed with a self-adhesive jobbie). By the time he'd written out my producer, he was asking all sorts of questions about the power, the mods etc. Non-petrolhead work colleagues would ask 'how can you afford that?'. This aspect of ownership never really appealed to me, but its a pleasant side effect!
I personally think that a good mkiv Supra TT is one of the best performance bargains you can get just now, and they are on the up too. You have to be careful, as they're getting older now and can look very tacky if you mod them badly. On the flipside of that coin, they have timeless GT/ coupe lines and can be classy old things if modified sympathetically. I recommend de-spoilering, as the tailgate has a lovely natural curve to it and looks less 90s without the 'Big Gay Wing'.
Whatever the designation of the box, it was a meaty old thing. Was convinced it had a short-shift kit fitted, but after a couple of OC meets was assured that it was just the natural short-throw, snickey shift of the box.
It is pretty agricultural, and can resist smooth changes until warmed up fully.
As stated already, these Getrag boxes are worth a bloody fortune now. I worried about mine quite a bit as it was noisier than I was used to, but in hindsight Im convinced this was simply due to the heavy-duty nature of the box. Part of the reason I sold it on was concern that the box might bork, which I now know is daft as they can take silly power without issue.
If you need the extra dollar to mod it yourself (which I totally understand), buy the non-red one. If Ive read the thread correctly, the non-6 spd one is an NA-T conversion. If that's the case, definitely go for the factory 6 spd TT. NA-T is fine, but it'll never give the peace of mind that a factory TT will. It also won't have the same resale value. NA-Ts don't go for that much more than NAs, and like anything of this nature the quality of the kit/ workmanship will vary.
Whichever you choose, just relax and enjoy mkiv ownership (I also had an auto NA daily). They are fantastic cars in every way- both of mine being notable for being bulletproof reliable over a couple years ownership. They waft like an LS, and are surprisingly comfortable despite initial impressions of the cabin being tight/ the dash being massive. Im 6'2", and did find that my left knee was pressed against the dash in my prefferred driving position (in the manual), although it was bearable. I was a keen modifier at the time- take it from an experienced owner that they are bloody loud, even with a fairly tame cat-back exhaust/ intake setup.
Don't over-tyre unless you have the huge power to match- mine was virtually stock and struggled to overcome the grip of the wide Advan rears unless provoked to the extreme. Check what brakes they have- UK spec brakes are bigger and much more desirable than JDMs. Rear seats are useless for grown ups, squeezed 3 adults in the back once and it looked like a torture chamber.
Cars with dark carpets (sorry, haven't looked at the links!) are more desirable. Owners with light coloured carpets always want to take them out and dye them black! Mine had a black leather(ette) headlining, which really lifted the cabin. Facelift dash binnacles with the 5 rather than 3 dial face are sought after, as is the rather fighterjet-esque analogue clock. My NA had an aftermarket dash binnacle kit, which had white dials backlit with blue (common aftermarket mod), which again is a worthwhile mod that really lifts the interior. Ashtray recess holds an IPhone rather nicely if you have a head unit with a front aux connection.
Stock seats are very comfortable, but lack lateral support, particularly given the cars' ability to corner aggressively. My 6 spd came with a Recaro drivers' seat which was an excellent mod. The main thing I'd say about mkiv ownership is the positive attention you get. People absolutely love them, and seem to view them as much more exotic than they actually are. I got pulled by a rather stern old copper after fitting my Do-Luck front, which at the time had no number plate fitted (fixed with a self-adhesive jobbie). By the time he'd written out my producer, he was asking all sorts of questions about the power, the mods etc. Non-petrolhead work colleagues would ask 'how can you afford that?'. This aspect of ownership never really appealed to me, but its a pleasant side effect!
I personally think that a good mkiv Supra TT is one of the best performance bargains you can get just now, and they are on the up too. You have to be careful, as they're getting older now and can look very tacky if you mod them badly. On the flipside of that coin, they have timeless GT/ coupe lines and can be classy old things if modified sympathetically. I recommend de-spoilering, as the tailgate has a lovely natural curve to it and looks less 90s without the 'Big Gay Wing'.
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