Discussion
I've done a search and read a lot of the threads I can find but I thought starting a new one won't hurt.
A pub near me has recently come up for sale, it's free hold and pretty huge and the price seems insanely low which has me dreaming of buying and running. I have no experience running a business let alone a pub but I figured some of the powerfully built pub ph landlords would know a thing or to and tell me if what I dream is realistic. If nothing else the pub seems to be a LOT of property for the money.
Ah well, poor first post in this sub forum I know but if you have any tales or experience in this area please share them here.
A pub near me has recently come up for sale, it's free hold and pretty huge and the price seems insanely low which has me dreaming of buying and running. I have no experience running a business let alone a pub but I figured some of the powerfully built pub ph landlords would know a thing or to and tell me if what I dream is realistic. If nothing else the pub seems to be a LOT of property for the money.
Ah well, poor first post in this sub forum I know but if you have any tales or experience in this area please share them here.
Is it still a trading business? If so ask for a copy of company accounts you need to understand what the operating costs, turnover and profit are. You may well find the pub is actually making significant losses if being offered for sale at a "low" price.
Is the land freehold or leasehold and included in the sale or rented from a landlord? Pubs with out ties to a given brewery may still be owned by an investor or investment group.
Is the land freehold or leasehold and included in the sale or rented from a landlord? Pubs with out ties to a given brewery may still be owned by an investor or investment group.
Up at 6am for beer delivery, cooked breakfasts for those staying in the B&B upstairs on the table by 8am, cleared up by 10am. Chef arrives at 11am to prepare for lunch service, doors open at 11.30am. Grab some downtime in the 3pm to 6pm lull, then back on by 6pm all the way through till you get to lock up at 11.30. You should be cleared up and in bed by 12.30.
Repeat.
Repeat.
mcflurry said:
Buying a bar is the best way to spoil your hobby of drinking beer 
This. I've been there done that. Don't do it. It's a 70 hour a week business not one that can be run in your spare time. The only way I would go back into that industry is if a chef wanted to open up a place and the bar was second to the food. Food is where the profit lies now.
From what i gather from a friend, who bought the freehold of pub he had the lease on 1-2years ago... it is incredibly hard work. Long long hours, very little free time indeed - he must work at least six days a week BUT - he does appear to be very successful.
He caters for the older audience at lunch (must have over 100 covers), on a fairly tight budget. As with everything, he learned his market.
I believe his problem is finding good people he can trust in his absence.
He caters for the older audience at lunch (must have over 100 covers), on a fairly tight budget. As with everything, he learned his market.
I believe his problem is finding good people he can trust in his absence.
To add to the gloom, I know someone who runs a small local "boozer" in Scotland and his takings have been affected by the reduction in drink drive threshold - the "one-pinters" have disappeared. Lower threshold may not be too far away from happening in England and Wales in the next few years.
The clue is in the fact that a large building in seemingly reasonable repair is for sale at a price considerably less than it would be if it were a house.
The books are more than likely awful and it's not straightforward getting planning to turn a pub into a house. The premises licence becomes a millstone around the property's neck.
Then you have running the pub. Even the slightest wrong move will see you alienate the locals who like it just how it is. The locals who don't use the pub will promise to come in if you change things. So you do and they don't come in. Except now you've pissed off the old locals who did.
The only way you'll get these kind of places to work is if you have enough money to wait for it to build up. You have to be consistent with everything, from service to quality of everything to opening hours (even if you see nobody all evening). It helps tremendously if you or your partner is a chef, so you're not at the mercy of a borderline alcoholic with the personality disorder who will drive you insane and cost most of your food profit whilst simultaneously upsetting the young waiting staff.
I'm only playing devil's advocate here, however I've lives in rural places for many years where people have bought the dream of a village pub and left having had a nightmare.
I'd probably get my personal licence and spend some time working a pub before committing hundreds of thousands into owning one.
The books are more than likely awful and it's not straightforward getting planning to turn a pub into a house. The premises licence becomes a millstone around the property's neck.
Then you have running the pub. Even the slightest wrong move will see you alienate the locals who like it just how it is. The locals who don't use the pub will promise to come in if you change things. So you do and they don't come in. Except now you've pissed off the old locals who did.
The only way you'll get these kind of places to work is if you have enough money to wait for it to build up. You have to be consistent with everything, from service to quality of everything to opening hours (even if you see nobody all evening). It helps tremendously if you or your partner is a chef, so you're not at the mercy of a borderline alcoholic with the personality disorder who will drive you insane and cost most of your food profit whilst simultaneously upsetting the young waiting staff.
I'm only playing devil's advocate here, however I've lives in rural places for many years where people have bought the dream of a village pub and left having had a nightmare.
I'd probably get my personal licence and spend some time working a pub before committing hundreds of thousands into owning one.
laam999 said:
This is a very gloomy thread, my imagination has it playing out slightly better. Oh well thanks for the reality check, it's exactly what I needed :-)
Having sold my business, I went through a similar thought process, as our local village pub is up for sale.After much thought, I came to the same conclusions are all the other posters and gave up on the idea.
I have some friends who bought a pub, they have made a real success of it , but it has taken an awful lot out of them. Last time I spoke to them, they had decided they would do it for another couple of years and then go back to the 9-5.
This...
The last chef he had nearly drove the highly profitable business into the red over about two months.
So my mate was forced back into the kitchen... again.
This is about the fourth try.
Not sure he has had a holiday since we moved here three years ago.
crashley said:
I believe his problem is finding good people he can trust in his absence.
...and this...allergictocheese said:
It helps tremendously if you or your partner is a chef, so you're not at the mercy of a borderline alcoholic with the personality disorder who will drive you insane and cost most of your food profit whilst simultaneously upsetting the young waiting staff.
Local friend runs our village award-winning gastro pub.The last chef he had nearly drove the highly profitable business into the red over about two months.
So my mate was forced back into the kitchen... again.
This is about the fourth try.
Not sure he has had a holiday since we moved here three years ago.
I do a bit of mobile Discoing so see the inner workings of many a pub and it strikes me that there are two ways to go.
Most of have gone balls out on the gastro side of things and where they are working, they are working very very well. This though is dependant upon location and the availability of investment. All those that I know that are doing well, all of which are freehold, the owners aren't involved in the day to day running.
The other end of the scale is the traditional boozer / local. These are more difficult commercially but you can get it right. There's one I do Discos is quite regularly (that also happens to be my local!). The landlord bought it with his brother about 10 years ago. I don't think it's seen a paint brush in 20 years and form the outside looks nothing special. Food is a "Breville out back" type thing and of most of the week, he's shut up by 10 because there's no punters. But, on a Monday night, he runs an Open Mic Night and every Friday and Saturday, there's a band (or me) playing. On those nights, the place is absolutely rammed. He does very well out of it!
Good luck.
Most of have gone balls out on the gastro side of things and where they are working, they are working very very well. This though is dependant upon location and the availability of investment. All those that I know that are doing well, all of which are freehold, the owners aren't involved in the day to day running.
The other end of the scale is the traditional boozer / local. These are more difficult commercially but you can get it right. There's one I do Discos is quite regularly (that also happens to be my local!). The landlord bought it with his brother about 10 years ago. I don't think it's seen a paint brush in 20 years and form the outside looks nothing special. Food is a "Breville out back" type thing and of most of the week, he's shut up by 10 because there's no punters. But, on a Monday night, he runs an Open Mic Night and every Friday and Saturday, there's a band (or me) playing. On those nights, the place is absolutely rammed. He does very well out of it!
Good luck.
I work very closely with the landlord of our village local.
His typical day is:
Up at 6.30 for the deliveries
Paperwork / ordering / sorting out staff rotas until 11.30
Staff come in at 10.30am to help him & his wife clean the place top to bottom
Doors open at 12.00
He's the chef, so cooking solidly until last lunch food orders at 3.00pm (they do around 60 / 70 covers every lunch)
Prep for evening service from 3.00pm - 4.00pm
4.00pm - 5.00pm - paperwork
5.00pm - back in the kitchen, cooking until 9pm (they do around 60 covers most evenings, apart from Mondays)
9pm - 11.00pm - out of the kitchen for a couple of beers with the locals
11.30pm - Kick out the stragglers
11.30pm - 0230am - Paperwork.
Rinse and repeat.
Christmas Eve, they were open until midnight
Christmas day, they were open 11am - 2pm
I run events for the pub.
In May, we run a may-fayre. On that day alone last year, he had to cater for 1,500 people. He took about £12k in food and drink so was quite happy, but he sweats it at every Monday evening planning meeting we have.
In September, we ran a Pimms and Promms evening with band, picnics, Pimms etc. He & his team had to make 250 picnics - he was cursing after 3 hours.
In December, I organised a Carols concert with snow machine, band etc- he had 250 people on a Sunday evening. Again, he made good money, but it was bloody hard work for him & his team.
He's doing a cracking job and is way ahead of his business plan, but he is very lucky that he has some good locals who are happy volunteer time and skills to make the pub work and he has been blessed with good weather over the past couple of years (they have a huge garden, so good summer weather is important to them).
I keep banging on at him to get a website, as he must lose a fair bit of trade by not having a web-presence, but he is absolutely stacked with the footfall he has generated already.
His typical day is:
Up at 6.30 for the deliveries
Paperwork / ordering / sorting out staff rotas until 11.30
Staff come in at 10.30am to help him & his wife clean the place top to bottom
Doors open at 12.00
He's the chef, so cooking solidly until last lunch food orders at 3.00pm (they do around 60 / 70 covers every lunch)
Prep for evening service from 3.00pm - 4.00pm
4.00pm - 5.00pm - paperwork
5.00pm - back in the kitchen, cooking until 9pm (they do around 60 covers most evenings, apart from Mondays)
9pm - 11.00pm - out of the kitchen for a couple of beers with the locals
11.30pm - Kick out the stragglers
11.30pm - 0230am - Paperwork.
Rinse and repeat.
Christmas Eve, they were open until midnight
Christmas day, they were open 11am - 2pm
I run events for the pub.
In May, we run a may-fayre. On that day alone last year, he had to cater for 1,500 people. He took about £12k in food and drink so was quite happy, but he sweats it at every Monday evening planning meeting we have.
In September, we ran a Pimms and Promms evening with band, picnics, Pimms etc. He & his team had to make 250 picnics - he was cursing after 3 hours.
In December, I organised a Carols concert with snow machine, band etc- he had 250 people on a Sunday evening. Again, he made good money, but it was bloody hard work for him & his team.
He's doing a cracking job and is way ahead of his business plan, but he is very lucky that he has some good locals who are happy volunteer time and skills to make the pub work and he has been blessed with good weather over the past couple of years (they have a huge garden, so good summer weather is important to them).
I keep banging on at him to get a website, as he must lose a fair bit of trade by not having a web-presence, but he is absolutely stacked with the footfall he has generated already.
It's not a job, it's a way of life. Be prepared to work 18 hour days, seven days a week, have no time for yourself, and if you have a wife or partner doing it with you, the chances are you will eventually stop being married or partners.
I speak from personal experience. I did enjoy the crib and darts nights though.
I speak from personal experience. I did enjoy the crib and darts nights though.
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