suicide?why?can anyone explain this?
Discussion
I've just spent 5 hours at Milton Keynes A&E as an old mate of mine tried to top himself.
I was the only person who turned up(his ex phoned me), he has few friends, and no 'blood' family to speak of (just two little ones, 3 and 6). He has over the last few years changed from being a fun guy to be with into a surly, aggressive , selfish and lazy git, I've seen him treat his wife poorly in the past.
She wants out of thier marriage(not surprised) so he attempts suicide.
I can see that from his side ,the position he is in is pretty miserable, but being the eternal optimist, I cant relate to his reaction.
I have known 2 others that have taken this route, one was a total shock (he was successful and is sorely missed by every and any one who knew him) the other was a selfish, self centered git who wants everyone around him to live life on his terms alone.
I feel that this act, is very selfish, how does any one else feel?
I'm going to take this guy in and help him, as and when he is released(he's being detained for psychiatric assessement under the mental health act) but only if he wants to sort his life out.
I feel sorry for his kids, in years to come they will need thier "daddy" surely?
If this is a bit addled, I appologise but I've been trying to work this out with a lot of Malt!
Mark
I was the only person who turned up(his ex phoned me), he has few friends, and no 'blood' family to speak of (just two little ones, 3 and 6). He has over the last few years changed from being a fun guy to be with into a surly, aggressive , selfish and lazy git, I've seen him treat his wife poorly in the past.
She wants out of thier marriage(not surprised) so he attempts suicide.
I can see that from his side ,the position he is in is pretty miserable, but being the eternal optimist, I cant relate to his reaction.
I have known 2 others that have taken this route, one was a total shock (he was successful and is sorely missed by every and any one who knew him) the other was a selfish, self centered git who wants everyone around him to live life on his terms alone.
I feel that this act, is very selfish, how does any one else feel?
I'm going to take this guy in and help him, as and when he is released(he's being detained for psychiatric assessement under the mental health act) but only if he wants to sort his life out.
I feel sorry for his kids, in years to come they will need thier "daddy" surely?
If this is a bit addled, I appologise but I've been trying to work this out with a lot of Malt!
Mark
Tendancies towards suicide can actually run in families, and the usual depression and gods knows what else can cuase someone to committ suicide. Sometimes its just a momentary impulse, there are many cases of people who have, for example, hanged themselves then changed their mind, usually its too late by then. Not to mention although you may know someone quite well, you still dont know what goes on in their head, a lot of 'normal' people can have something deep and dark eating away at them inside that they can't talk about for one reason or another.
Its the people around them, left to pick up the pieces that really suffer, I rekon its selfish.
My mate Kev, didnt talk, he did it with a circular saw, through his wrist wrapped in mains flex, he even changed the fuse for a nail. there must have been over 200 people at his funeral, no one had a clue, what a waste, his wife and her kids are still trying to come to terms with it now, 4 years on. . . .
My mate Kev, didnt talk, he did it with a circular saw, through his wrist wrapped in mains flex, he even changed the fuse for a nail. there must have been over 200 people at his funeral, no one had a clue, what a waste, his wife and her kids are still trying to come to terms with it now, 4 years on. . . .
Tendancies towards suicide can actually run in families, and the usual depression and gods knows what else can cuase someone to committ suicide. Sometimes its just a momentary impulse, there are many cases of people who have, for example, hanged themselves then changed their mind, usually its too late by then. Not to mention although you may know someone quite well, you still dont know what goes on in their head, a lot of 'normal' people can have something deep and dark eating away at them inside that they can't talk about for one reason or another.
Road_Terrorist said:
a lot of 'normal' people can have something deep and dark eating away at them inside that they can't talk about for one reason or another.
Sometimes its hard to explain. Or you could be like me and have a real problem trusting people and not feel like even your closest and oldest friends can hear your problems.
Like everyone, I have my good and bad times, but suicide never really comes to mind. It just seems pointless and selfish. Just walk away maybe, but grass is always greener and all that so you still wouldn't be better off. Just trading one set of problems for another.
sirtophamhat said:
[quote=Road_Terrorist] It just seems pointless and selfish. Just walk away maybe, but grass is always greener and all that so you still wouldn't be better off. Just trading one set of problems for another.
I think this the cowards way out of things. Problems can never be that bad that you want to end up killing yourself! Now the guy will have a psych team on top of him for the rest of his life!
It's his wife and children that I feel sorry for!
(sorry if this sounds harsh, but I am tired and I got to go back to work today)
Jane x
Sorry, I have a fair old insight into this and it makes me sick when I hear people say "It's soooo selfish". That is just typical of people who don't have a clue. I know that the consequences are horrible for others, but the point is people haven't been listening, which is why it's a call to listen. Otherwise, if a person has resigned themselves to the fact that no-one will listen, or has the pride to contain it, maybe actually doing it is the way forward.
I have had a fair old spat with proper depression and it is surprising who doesn't listen, people you would really expect to, who are completely self obsessed. Depression CAN end in an inability to cope, which is when it all falls to bits. Trying to regain a partial grip may take all signs of "sad" forms, like drinking to excess, obsession, etc. Which is why it is ignorant of the condition and inhuman to go immediately judging someone in this situation.
The bloke HAS probably pushed all the "help" buttons, but everyone is ignoring them, Homer Simpson style.
Personally, feeling your life leave the track, do cartwheels and finally come to rest as a total wreck is devastating, very difficult to deal with and outwardly appering normal, often.
I was lucky to have the strength to understand how my mind worked and put it into context......
Phew.....
Give the bloke an ear, because he 
well needs one.
Edit:- Sp, Gr
>> Edited by love machine on Monday 10th January 07:57
I have had a fair old spat with proper depression and it is surprising who doesn't listen, people you would really expect to, who are completely self obsessed. Depression CAN end in an inability to cope, which is when it all falls to bits. Trying to regain a partial grip may take all signs of "sad" forms, like drinking to excess, obsession, etc. Which is why it is ignorant of the condition and inhuman to go immediately judging someone in this situation.
The bloke HAS probably pushed all the "help" buttons, but everyone is ignoring them, Homer Simpson style.
Personally, feeling your life leave the track, do cartwheels and finally come to rest as a total wreck is devastating, very difficult to deal with and outwardly appering normal, often.
I was lucky to have the strength to understand how my mind worked and put it into context......
Phew.....
Give the bloke an ear, because he well needs one. Edit:- Sp, Gr
>> Edited by love machine on Monday 10th January 07:57
Selfishness and cowardice are the usual reactions of 'normal' people.
The absolute terror of having no where to turn to or no one to talk to and being totally unable to explain it if there was must be a living nightmare. Just look at the people shirley temple has lost to suicide, were they all cowards or selfish?
>> Edited by apache on Monday 10th January 08:10
The absolute terror of having no where to turn to or no one to talk to and being totally unable to explain it if there was must be a living nightmare. Just look at the people shirley temple has lost to suicide, were they all cowards or selfish?
>> Edited by apache on Monday 10th January 08:10
Blimey, Love Machine and I agree on something! 
It's very easy to call someone selfish for killing themselves and of course some people do it as a cry for help or attention and don't really intend to die. But have you any idea how bad things have to be for you to want to end your life? You have to feel totally worthless and have no hope whatsoever that your life will ever get better. You will feel as though everyone in your life will be better off without you and that your life is completely pointless and meaningless. And that is a serious state of affairs. It's not the cowards way out - you have to work up a hell of a lot of courage to end your life.
I'm sure plenty of people will have views on this but I suggest that you suspend your contempt of anyone you consider weaker than you and try for a minute to imagine how terrible people must be feeling to want to kill themselves.
It's very easy to call someone selfish for killing themselves and of course some people do it as a cry for help or attention and don't really intend to die. But have you any idea how bad things have to be for you to want to end your life? You have to feel totally worthless and have no hope whatsoever that your life will ever get better. You will feel as though everyone in your life will be better off without you and that your life is completely pointless and meaningless. And that is a serious state of affairs. It's not the cowards way out - you have to work up a hell of a lot of courage to end your life.
I'm sure plenty of people will have views on this but I suggest that you suspend your contempt of anyone you consider weaker than you and try for a minute to imagine how terrible people must be feeling to want to kill themselves.
LM is spot on.
What we'd see as irrational (or selfish) thinking on their part, the person suffering won't. They can't find a positive way forward and taking their own life is the only way they can see to ending their pain.
When suicide is unsuccessful, it can be because they're found in time or they didn't really want to end their life and it is the action of a desperate person who wants help.
You're doing the right thing by helping him. Too many people shun others in that situation because they don't understand.
What we'd see as irrational (or selfish) thinking on their part, the person suffering won't. They can't find a positive way forward and taking their own life is the only way they can see to ending their pain.
When suicide is unsuccessful, it can be because they're found in time or they didn't really want to end their life and it is the action of a desperate person who wants help.
You're doing the right thing by helping him. Too many people shun others in that situation because they don't understand.
There is one problem though. Whilst you are right about the behaviour>chemical imbalance>behaviour>etc being self sustaining, it is possible to put someone back on track with cognitive therapy or chemical therapy, the latter misses out on what the cause might be.
Also, in our country we have an ignorance and intolerance of the mentally ill (which is what it amounts to), how many jobs have you been to where they require access to your medical records? (I have had several). To these uneducated, ignorant people, something such as mental illness is seen as a big fat cross. The stigma is taboo, you may as well be a child molester.
I personally would never take my head to the doctor for precisely this reason.
NB:- Also, it is my opinion that most doctors are charlatans and quite a fair few of them (including my doc) diagnose people from the "Haynes manual". "Take some Aspirin"! Seriously.....
Well, I suppose for the chap which has had this crisis, hopefully he will have the chance for proper counciling by someone who is more than a jobsworth, having another crack at life with restored vigour.
Edit:- Fat fingers again.
>> Edited by love machine on Monday 10th January 09:44
Also, in our country we have an ignorance and intolerance of the mentally ill (which is what it amounts to), how many jobs have you been to where they require access to your medical records? (I have had several). To these uneducated, ignorant people, something such as mental illness is seen as a big fat cross. The stigma is taboo, you may as well be a child molester.
I personally would never take my head to the doctor for precisely this reason.
NB:- Also, it is my opinion that most doctors are charlatans and quite a fair few of them (including my doc) diagnose people from the "Haynes manual". "Take some Aspirin"! Seriously.....
Well, I suppose for the chap which has had this crisis, hopefully he will have the chance for proper counciling by someone who is more than a jobsworth, having another crack at life with restored vigour.
Edit:- Fat fingers again.
>> Edited by love machine on Monday 10th January 09:44
love machine said:
Sorry, I have a fair old insight into this and it makes me sick when I hear people say "It's soooo selfish". That is just typical of people who don't have a clue. I know that the consequences are horrible for others, but the point is people haven't been listening, which is why it's a call to listen. Otherwise, if a person has resigned themselves to the fact that no-one will listen, or has the pride to contain it, maybe actually doing it is the way forward.
I have had a fair old spat with proper depression and it is surprising who doesn't listen, people you would really expect to, who are completely self obsessed. Depression CAN end in an inability to cope, which is when it all falls to bits. Trying to regain a partial grip may take all signs of "sad" forms, like drinking to excess, obsession, etc. Which is why it is ignorant of the condition and inhuman to go immediately judging someone in this situation.
The bloke HAS probably pushed all the "help" buttons, but everyone is ignoring them, Homer Simpson style.
Personally, feeling your life leave the track, do cartwheels and finally come to rest as a total wreck is devastating, very difficult to deal with and outwardly appering normal, often.
what he said.
love machine said:
Sorry, I have a fair old insight into this and it makes me sick when I hear people say "It's soooo selfish". That is just typical of people who don't have a clue. I know that the consequences are horrible for others, but the point is people haven't been listening, which is why it's a call to listen. Otherwise, if a person has resigned themselves to the fact that no-one will listen, or has the pride to contain it, maybe actually doing it is the way forward.
I have had a fair old spat with proper depression and it is surprising who doesn't listen, people you would really expect to, who are completely self obsessed. Depression CAN end in an inability to cope, which is when it all falls to bits. Trying to regain a partial grip may take all signs of "sad" forms, like drinking to excess, obsession, etc. Which is why it is ignorant of the condition and inhuman to go immediately judging someone in this situation.
The bloke HAS probably pushed all the "help" buttons, but everyone is ignoring them, Homer Simpson style.
Personally, feeling your life leave the track, do cartwheels and finally come to rest as a total wreck is devastating, very difficult to deal with and outwardly appering normal, often.
I was lucky to have the strength to understand how my mind worked and put it into context......
Phew.....
Edit:- Sp, Gr
>> Edited by love machine on Monday 10th January 07:57
I too have had personal contact with mental illness, ex-wife and my mother. To say this guy hasn't had any one to talk too is wrong, his wife has asked me to talk to him several times about 'his problems', and i was told to stop interfering, and he gave his wife a really hard time about 'involving me'. He spoke more last night than he has ever done before, its too late to save his marriage now though. I'm not equiped/trained to deal with a seriously depressed person and can only help him if he wants help.
Mark
Totally agree with the last few posts, LM's in particular. There is no selfishness or cowardice in suicide, and people who think that have no idea.
I have been through some very dark times. Outwardly people thought I had everything, good job, nice car, lots of friends and beautiful GF etc but inside I was dieing every day. What caused me to get very depressed was something I had to do in the military which had much more of a effect on me than I or anyone else realised and in typical brit style when anyone asked how I was, I just said yeah I'm good and smiled back. I'm sure there is a lot of people like myself who suffered in silence because of not knowing how to let it out. People have always remarked that I have been one of the strongest people they know mentally, how little they knew.
My point is, there is probably lots of people who are experiencing now what I was feeling then but quite a few won't make it.
I think we all need to be aware of this fact and try to keep a close eye on anyone who exhibits signs of depression and try to help if possible, no one came to help me but that was down to the fact that I hid it so well nobody to this day knows what I went through in silence.
Be aware and if someones behaviour changes majorly over a short period of time or degrades over a longer period, put your own feelings aside and try to work out why and you may just be the person who save them.
I have been through some very dark times. Outwardly people thought I had everything, good job, nice car, lots of friends and beautiful GF etc but inside I was dieing every day. What caused me to get very depressed was something I had to do in the military which had much more of a effect on me than I or anyone else realised and in typical brit style when anyone asked how I was, I just said yeah I'm good and smiled back. I'm sure there is a lot of people like myself who suffered in silence because of not knowing how to let it out. People have always remarked that I have been one of the strongest people they know mentally, how little they knew.
My point is, there is probably lots of people who are experiencing now what I was feeling then but quite a few won't make it.
I think we all need to be aware of this fact and try to keep a close eye on anyone who exhibits signs of depression and try to help if possible, no one came to help me but that was down to the fact that I hid it so well nobody to this day knows what I went through in silence.
Be aware and if someones behaviour changes majorly over a short period of time or degrades over a longer period, put your own feelings aside and try to work out why and you may just be the person who save them.
Having said there are several varieties of "listening".
Everyone likes to lend an ear and stroke their own egos, but the required variety of listening comes with genuine sympathy.
It takes a very special relationship to actually have the correct form of "listening". This generally comes from REALLY good friends but a psychiatrist is trained to tick the right boxes. Generally the person with the illness REALLY wants to be helped and is willing to have the wool pulled over his eyes a bit, but insufficiently masked indifference is a bad thing.
If you don't genuinely sympathise with his situation, leave it to an expert or somebody who does.
Anyway, it's amazing what life can teach you.
Everyone likes to lend an ear and stroke their own egos, but the required variety of listening comes with genuine sympathy.
It takes a very special relationship to actually have the correct form of "listening". This generally comes from REALLY good friends but a psychiatrist is trained to tick the right boxes. Generally the person with the illness REALLY wants to be helped and is willing to have the wool pulled over his eyes a bit, but insufficiently masked indifference is a bad thing.
If you don't genuinely sympathise with his situation, leave it to an expert or somebody who does.
Anyway, it's amazing what life can teach you.
You are taking on an awful lot by taking this guy in. Depression is a communicatble illness. You want to think very carefully before lending him a hand.
It takes a heavy toll on all those around.
And while I agree with everyone on this thread its also a multifactorial disease. No two depressions are ever the same so generalising is rarely accurate. Tablets don't always help, and counselling doesn't always help.
Suicide isn't always a cry for help.
It takes a heavy toll on all those around.
And while I agree with everyone on this thread its also a multifactorial disease. No two depressions are ever the same so generalising is rarely accurate. Tablets don't always help, and counselling doesn't always help.
Suicide isn't always a cry for help.
shirley temple said:
I'm not equiped/trained to deal with a seriously depressed person and can only help him if he wants help.
Unfoirtunately, that is too true, but you are still likely to get a whole load of it dumped at your feet. Maybe not deliberately from your friend, but its certainly possible. The mental health people are just way too stretched to cope these days.
Your friend will need a combination of cognitive therapy/counselling and (hopefully short term) drug therapy. There is nothing wrong with either of these; its not unmanly or whatever to talk about problems, or to take a mood stabiliser to give yourself a chance to think while your brain chemistry is otherwise a little scrambled. Depression is laregly a chemical imbalance, (causing psychological issues), its not more to be ashamed of than my having a dodgy set of lungs following pneumonia.
It might be worth making sure you have someone to talk stuff through with too though. If its all dumped on your shoulders, it may help for you to have someone to off load onto.
For the depressed person it's often very difficult for them to realise this is what they have, it's then another hurdle if they do recognise the symptoms to admit they need help and treatment just like you would if you have say diabetes.
Many of us expierence the same traumatic things in life, I don't know why some people get depressed and others don't, but I do understand that suicide is the last option and for some the only option they feel they have.
I think for those left behind after suicide it must be very difficult not to feel guilty about failing to help.
If someone survives a suicide attempt they should be given support and every oppertunity to get well, after all if your best mate rung you to say they had cancer of ........ most of us I feel sure would do all we could to support them.
Many of us expierence the same traumatic things in life, I don't know why some people get depressed and others don't, but I do understand that suicide is the last option and for some the only option they feel they have.
I think for those left behind after suicide it must be very difficult not to feel guilty about failing to help.
If someone survives a suicide attempt they should be given support and every oppertunity to get well, after all if your best mate rung you to say they had cancer of ........ most of us I feel sure would do all we could to support them.
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