Grip VS Traction (UK Snow watch *******)
Discussion
Fun chat with AWD owning neighbour (SQ5) boasting about how his Quattro drivetrain gave him such amazing grip this morning whilst chortling at my 20" shod 640d.
I tried to point out the difference between grip and traction. He didn't get it.
He does now. He's arrived home in a taxi after sliding straight on on a right hand bend and ending up in a field, via a hedge and fence.
Meanwhile my 640 has a little bit of slush still stuck in one of the alloys.
I tried to point out the difference between grip and traction. He didn't get it.
He does now. He's arrived home in a taxi after sliding straight on on a right hand bend and ending up in a field, via a hedge and fence.
Meanwhile my 640 has a little bit of slush still stuck in one of the alloys.
Nothing quite so satisfying, admittedly in a cruel, Schadenfreude kind of way, as very timely proof that you were in fact worth listening to 
In the heavy snow a couple of years ago I was picking my way around various no-hopers who'd slid back down a half-mile hill and were trying to turn back, and some guy in a van took great pleasure in telling me I'd "never make it up there mate, not in that BMW, you must be joking". Shame I never did get to see his face after I drove straight over with no drama whatsoever.
In the heavy snow a couple of years ago I was picking my way around various no-hopers who'd slid back down a half-mile hill and were trying to turn back, and some guy in a van took great pleasure in telling me I'd "never make it up there mate, not in that BMW, you must be joking". Shame I never did get to see his face after I drove straight over with no drama whatsoever.
As well as grip v traction it also shows Momentum = mass x velocity. The more mass the sooner low grip catches up with you.
They ought to do a SUV test in the snow with standard tyres and winters. On either I bet the Suzuki Jimny would probably win just due to it being less than 1100kg, or half the weight of something full size.
With low weight uncontrollable sliding will hopefully be less of an issue.
On which note
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=12b_1421646102
They ought to do a SUV test in the snow with standard tyres and winters. On either I bet the Suzuki Jimny would probably win just due to it being less than 1100kg, or half the weight of something full size.
With low weight uncontrollable sliding will hopefully be less of an issue.
On which note
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=12b_1421646102
Gandahar said:
As well as grip v traction it also shows Momentum = mass x velocity. The more mass the sooner low grip catches up with you.
They ought to do a SUV test in the snow with standard tyres and winters. On either I bet the Suzuki Jimny would probably win just due to it being less than 1100kg, or half the weight of something full size.
With low weight uncontrollable sliding will hopefully be less of an issue.
On which note
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=12b_1421646102
Like this?They ought to do a SUV test in the snow with standard tyres and winters. On either I bet the Suzuki Jimny would probably win just due to it being less than 1100kg, or half the weight of something full size.
With low weight uncontrollable sliding will hopefully be less of an issue.
On which note
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=12b_1421646102
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/66692/winter...
Ares said:
Non-Audi specific.... Just any tosser that thinks because they have AWD, they are invisible, not realising it gives them no more grip than a 2 wheel drive car (other things being equal), merely better traction.
The gearbox configuration of my RRS makes no difference to whether or not you can see the car. But I will switch on the headlights when it starts to get dark outside.
king autocorrect. Invincible/Invisible
Gandahar said:
As well as grip v traction it also shows Momentum = mass x velocity. The more mass the sooner low grip catches up with you.
Actually grip, traction, call it what you will, is ultimately friction.Friction is dependent on the nature of the surfaces and the force between them. Nothing to do with the size of the contact patch although that is not relevant in this case.
So the added momentum is counteracted by the greater force between the two surfaces (weight).
There is no evidence that lighter vehicles skid less. However they do SINK less given the same or similar tyre size and that may be very relevant on soft terrain like deep snow and mud.
There's no physical difference, but the layman uses "traction" to describe the ability to propel a car, and "grip" the ability to corner or stop it.
In these terms, a 4WD system gives you more traction, using the potential of all four wheels rather than just two, but absolutely no more grip, as all four wheels are already used for cornering and braking. That's why 4WD and lack of common sense is a dangerous combination in the snow - a 4WD car is very easy to accelerate, but no better at anything else.
In these terms, a 4WD system gives you more traction, using the potential of all four wheels rather than just two, but absolutely no more grip, as all four wheels are already used for cornering and braking. That's why 4WD and lack of common sense is a dangerous combination in the snow - a 4WD car is very easy to accelerate, but no better at anything else.
Ares said:
Non-Audi specific.... Just any tosser that thinks because they have AWD, they are invisible, not realising it gives them no more grip than a 2 wheel drive car (other things being equal), merely better traction.
Are you defining traction as the ability to move forward?I would define traction as the ability of the tyres to grip the road. Ergo, traction equals grip. Traction doesnt just apply to the driven wheels. A RWD car can lose traction on the front wheels.
mudster said:
I would define traction as the ability of the tyres to grip the road.
You could but that does not mean that you are right.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_%28engineeri...
In automotive applications a 4wd driven vehicle will certainly (under identical and reasonable circumstances) have greater traction than a 2wd vehicle, as drive or torque which is attempting to overcome friction is split 4 way rather than just 2 (lets keep things simple here).
However come a corner and it is centrifugal force that is attempting to overcome friction and that has zilch nada nyet to do with which or how many wheels have a shaft attached to them (again, lets keep things simple here). Then what one would call bare "grip" comes into it.
But... tyre "grip" obviously has a bearing on traction...
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