Thinking Of Doing my PPL next year
Discussion
It’s a long way off yet but I do like to plan some things in advance, next year (I am at the moment committed to a season of drag racing) I am thinking of putting a hold on the racing and doing my PPL (the full one rather than the National one), because if I don’t do it now the likelihood of being able to afford to do it in a reasonable timeframe in the distant future is slim at best. Keeping the licence current won’t be an issue as even 15 hours per year on a rented aircraft (doubt I’ll do enough flying to justify buying an aircraft) is less than my annual racing budget.
I’ll be doing a few trial lessons this year just to make sure it’s definitely something I want to invest my time and a great deal of money in (min £8000, realistically probably more) and I have a few questions for the PH GA pilots and instructors that frequent these forums.
I’m based in Hull and the nearest flying schools are; Linely Hill (Hull Aero Club) and Humberside International Airport. Linley Hill is a grass strip and Humberside Intl is a ‘proper’ runway, both are about the same distance from me and from what I can find out the GA landing fees at Humberside are comparable with Linley Hill (I think they charge, unless that’s just for non-club members; the net is not clear). Is it better to learn at an uncontrolled grass strip or at a ‘proper’ airport?
Next the aircraft to learn on; Linely Hill operates C150’s and C172’ for training and C150, C172 and PA-28’s in various flavours at Humberside Intl. Naturally learning on a C150 and then doing a the conversion onto something bigger is a more cost effective way to learn as saving ~£20 p/h over a minimum of 45hrs plus the skills test is going to add up. However, I am not a small person at just shy of 6’ 2” and an average weight of 16st (though I intend to shed a few lbs this year by cycling). The weight however is not my biggest concern, would a C150 be a bit uncomfortable for somebody my height given I have longish legs and wide shoulders. If I need to learn on a bigger aircraft is the C172 or PA-28 the way to go (in terms of learning to fly).
Edit: some oddities that weren't picked up in word.
I’ll be doing a few trial lessons this year just to make sure it’s definitely something I want to invest my time and a great deal of money in (min £8000, realistically probably more) and I have a few questions for the PH GA pilots and instructors that frequent these forums.
I’m based in Hull and the nearest flying schools are; Linely Hill (Hull Aero Club) and Humberside International Airport. Linley Hill is a grass strip and Humberside Intl is a ‘proper’ runway, both are about the same distance from me and from what I can find out the GA landing fees at Humberside are comparable with Linley Hill (I think they charge, unless that’s just for non-club members; the net is not clear). Is it better to learn at an uncontrolled grass strip or at a ‘proper’ airport?
Next the aircraft to learn on; Linely Hill operates C150’s and C172’ for training and C150, C172 and PA-28’s in various flavours at Humberside Intl. Naturally learning on a C150 and then doing a the conversion onto something bigger is a more cost effective way to learn as saving ~£20 p/h over a minimum of 45hrs plus the skills test is going to add up. However, I am not a small person at just shy of 6’ 2” and an average weight of 16st (though I intend to shed a few lbs this year by cycling). The weight however is not my biggest concern, would a C150 be a bit uncomfortable for somebody my height given I have longish legs and wide shoulders. If I need to learn on a bigger aircraft is the C172 or PA-28 the way to go (in terms of learning to fly).
Edit: some oddities that weren't picked up in word.
Edited by PanzerCommander on Tuesday 3rd February 18:25
Flying out of a 'proper' airport will probably end up costing you more money - it's been a while since I've flown up that way, but in general, GA traffic will play second fiddle to anything bigger or faster. End result of that is, delays on the ground and in the air, which all adds up. 'Proper' airports tend to be bigger too, which means you'll spend longer taxiing to and from your base, which again, all adds up. At the end of the day, you want it to be enjoyable and I would say, learning at a smaller strip will solve a lot of these issues I've mentioned. Add to that, your flying skills will probably be better learning on a shorter runway and grass . .compared to a relatively longer and wider piece of tarmac.....
As for aircraft type, you're right in thinking a C152 is a bit small for you, especially if your instructor is of a similar build. That's not to say it can't be done, but I'd say it's worth the extra few quid an hour to take a 172 or PA-28 and feel a bit more comfortable. . . In terms of performance there's not much in it and if you're starting on the larger type, you wouldn't notice anyway.....
Get your medical done too. No point throwing a load of cash at it if you can't even fly solo!
Enjoy it. I got back in to GA after years in the wilderness. It's the best flying to be had . . . .
As for aircraft type, you're right in thinking a C152 is a bit small for you, especially if your instructor is of a similar build. That's not to say it can't be done, but I'd say it's worth the extra few quid an hour to take a 172 or PA-28 and feel a bit more comfortable. . . In terms of performance there's not much in it and if you're starting on the larger type, you wouldn't notice anyway.....
Get your medical done too. No point throwing a load of cash at it if you can't even fly solo!
Enjoy it. I got back in to GA after years in the wilderness. It's the best flying to be had . . . .
Edited by 5150 on Tuesday 3rd February 13:37
I'm about your dimensions and I did much of my PPL training in a C152. It's not a spacious thing, but it's big enough if your instructor isn't of similar dimensions. It's certainly much nicer to fly than a C172 which is a truck by comparison. The PA-28 is a nice bird, but like flying a lounge chair by comparison to the 152. I did fly a Tommahawk once and whilst it did actually fly, I won't be in too much of a hurry to find another one.
None of them are as much fun as a Cub or Super Cub
None of them are as much fun as a Cub or Super Cub
The C152 is cramped but OK once you're in it, though I'm nowhere near your size. If you have to go bigger, personally I'd go for the C172 over the PA28 because a) I prefer high wing for the nice view down and b) I like having my own door, not having to climb over the other guy to get out.
As for the "where" question I can only echo what's been said above. I learned at Biggin Hill and it was definitely more expensive in terms of landing/T+G fees and in time burned taxiing and holding, but was good experience being at a busy airfield with full ATC. However for many of my lessons I flew to nearby airfields like Headcorn for T+G as it was cheaper plus it also gave me experience of dealing with an AG service rather than full ATC, so you might have similar opportunity where you are?
As for the "where" question I can only echo what's been said above. I learned at Biggin Hill and it was definitely more expensive in terms of landing/T+G fees and in time burned taxiing and holding, but was good experience being at a busy airfield with full ATC. However for many of my lessons I flew to nearby airfields like Headcorn for T+G as it was cheaper plus it also gave me experience of dealing with an AG service rather than full ATC, so you might have similar opportunity where you are?
How come you're going for PPL? I'm starting this year and going to aim for a Euro LAPL after receiving this advice.
" So get a microlight nppl, do an ssea conversion both before 8th April 2018, spend just over £40 and some ink on applying for a euro lapl, and the EU is your oyster in single engine up to two metric tonnes ( ie about twice as heavy as anything at Popham except for the Antanov)"
Mainly as I don't think I'll fly bigger than the above!
" So get a microlight nppl, do an ssea conversion both before 8th April 2018, spend just over £40 and some ink on applying for a euro lapl, and the EU is your oyster in single engine up to two metric tonnes ( ie about twice as heavy as anything at Popham except for the Antanov)"
Mainly as I don't think I'll fly bigger than the above!
Thanks for the replies so far, keep em coming 
The grass strip is looking more attractive based on the hold time (in the air and on the ground) aspect.
There are a number of airfields in the area (too far to realistically drive only to not get a weather break) that would be used for T&G training regardless of the airfield I’d fly from. I dare say if I flew from Lindley Hill I would end up doing T&Gs at Humberside and vice versa.
I guess I can pop up to the flying club and talk to them about it, I am sure they would let me sit in both a C152 on the ground to see if I can get comfortable (especially as I’d be planning having a trial lesson anyway).
So with the Euro LAPL I can:
1) Train to fly a fixed wing Microlight at Lindley Hill (they do have a Microlight school) and get my NPPL(M)
2) Do a familiarisation course and any theory exams with an instructor on a C152/C172 (both well under 2000kg MTOW) and then send off some forms and a cheque with my proof of flying time.
3) Receive Euro LAPL in the post and I can then fly said aircraft to France/Germany/Spain…?
If so that’s a far more cost effective way of getting a pilot’s licence my only worry would be my weight and size in a microlight as they aren’t very big. I assume like the NPPL you can top it up to a full PPL in the future if you wished (with the appropriate theory tests and skills test/hours).
The grass strip is looking more attractive based on the hold time (in the air and on the ground) aspect.
There are a number of airfields in the area (too far to realistically drive only to not get a weather break) that would be used for T&G training regardless of the airfield I’d fly from. I dare say if I flew from Lindley Hill I would end up doing T&Gs at Humberside and vice versa.
I guess I can pop up to the flying club and talk to them about it, I am sure they would let me sit in both a C152 on the ground to see if I can get comfortable (especially as I’d be planning having a trial lesson anyway).
Crush said:
How come you're going for PPL? I'm starting this year and going to aim for a Euro LAPL after receiving this advice.
" So get a microlight nppl, do an ssea conversion both before 8th April 2018, spend just over £40 and some ink on applying for a euro lapl, and the EU is your oyster in single engine up to two metric tonnes ( ie about twice as heavy as anything at Popham except for the Antanov)"
Mainly as I don't think I'll fly bigger than the above!
I didn’t even know you could do that, I didn’t even know there was a Euro LAPL." So get a microlight nppl, do an ssea conversion both before 8th April 2018, spend just over £40 and some ink on applying for a euro lapl, and the EU is your oyster in single engine up to two metric tonnes ( ie about twice as heavy as anything at Popham except for the Antanov)"
Mainly as I don't think I'll fly bigger than the above!
So with the Euro LAPL I can:
1) Train to fly a fixed wing Microlight at Lindley Hill (they do have a Microlight school) and get my NPPL(M)
2) Do a familiarisation course and any theory exams with an instructor on a C152/C172 (both well under 2000kg MTOW) and then send off some forms and a cheque with my proof of flying time.
3) Receive Euro LAPL in the post and I can then fly said aircraft to France/Germany/Spain…?
If so that’s a far more cost effective way of getting a pilot’s licence my only worry would be my weight and size in a microlight as they aren’t very big. I assume like the NPPL you can top it up to a full PPL in the future if you wished (with the appropriate theory tests and skills test/hours).
PanzerCommander said:
I didn’t even know you could do that, I didn’t even know there was a Euro LAPL.
So with the Euro LAPL I can:
1) Train to fly a fixed wing Microlight at Lindley Hill (they do have a Microlight school) and get my NPPL(M)
2) Do a familiarisation course and any theory exams with an instructor on a C152/C172 (both well under 2000kg MTOW) and then send off some forms and a cheque with my proof of flying time.
3) Receive Euro LAPL in the post and I can then fly said aircraft to France/Germany/Spain…?
If so that’s a far more cost effective way of getting a pilot’s licence my only worry would be my weight and size in a microlight as they aren’t very big. I assume like the NPPL you can top it up to a full PPL in the future if you wished (with the appropriate theory tests and skills test/hours).
Or you could just fly the microlight to France, Germany and Spain and skip all the euro bSo with the Euro LAPL I can:
1) Train to fly a fixed wing Microlight at Lindley Hill (they do have a Microlight school) and get my NPPL(M)
2) Do a familiarisation course and any theory exams with an instructor on a C152/C172 (both well under 2000kg MTOW) and then send off some forms and a cheque with my proof of flying time.
3) Receive Euro LAPL in the post and I can then fly said aircraft to France/Germany/Spain…?
If so that’s a far more cost effective way of getting a pilot’s licence my only worry would be my weight and size in a microlight as they aren’t very big. I assume like the NPPL you can top it up to a full PPL in the future if you wished (with the appropriate theory tests and skills test/hours).
ks :-)Your weight is borderline, your size will probably be ok, depending on the aircraft some are more spacious than a 152. Yes you can 'top it up' later.
VernalEquinox said:
Or you could just fly the microlight to France, Germany and Spain and skip all the euro bks :-)
Your weight is borderline, your size will probably be ok, depending on the aircraft some are more spacious than a 152. Yes you can 'top it up' later.
It’s mainly because I’d like to carry more than one passenger at a time. The big issue really is there is no turn up and fly once qualified you have to either buy your own AC or buy into one of the club aircraft, unlike the 152/172 where I can turn up and fly (subject to AC availability) without the worry of having to fork out for repair bills that the monthly fee can’t cover should anything unforeseen crop up.ks :-)Your weight is borderline, your size will probably be ok, depending on the aircraft some are more spacious than a 152. Yes you can 'top it up' later.
Having done a bit more research on the licence; LAPL(A) = min 30hrs training (if done directly rather than the NPPL(M) -> SSEA conversion -> LAPL(A) route) a couple less ground exams + radio. The hours requirements seems a little low in comparison; but then I suppose it’s all down to how quickly you pick it up. 12 hrs over two years (one with an instructor) to maintain currency (plus medical renewals when required). Though I need to do 10 hours solo on top of that before I can have a passenger that isn’t a qualified pilot.
Given the likelihood of me ever hiring an aircraft outside of the UK (let alone the EU) or wanting to fly anything bigger means that the LAPL is probably the way to go, it does indeed seem like the most cost effective way to fly in a conventional SSEA aircraft in UK/EU airspace, less hours overall to keep it current too so If I am strapped for cash one year it needn’t be too much of a worry.
I did my PPL at Humberside and it was fine as there is never anything going on there,the majority of the action being helicopter traffic,I very rarely had to hold for any commercial stuff. Also the light aircraft parking area and flying clubs have a very short taxi to the runway for a proper airport. I learnt with Soloflight but alas they are no more,however most of the aircraft and instructors moved over to the POM flying club,set up by one of the members. I used a PA28,and although no hot rod definitely more comfortable and practical than a 152.
Linley hill is 5 mins from my house so I went there for a look,given its down a dirt track miles from anywhere I was a bit surprised when the owner/manager asked me if I was lost when I went to find out about training there. Needless to say I never returned!
You won't regret getting a PPL,brilliant hobby I can sadly no longer afford,although I will make a return.
ETA I still fly out of Humberside but on one of the helicopters that get in the way,will give you a wave!
Linley hill is 5 mins from my house so I went there for a look,given its down a dirt track miles from anywhere I was a bit surprised when the owner/manager asked me if I was lost when I went to find out about training there. Needless to say I never returned!
You won't regret getting a PPL,brilliant hobby I can sadly no longer afford,although I will make a return.
ETA I still fly out of Humberside but on one of the helicopters that get in the way,will give you a wave!
Edited by schuey on Thursday 5th February 20:37
Edited by schuey on Thursday 5th February 20:37
PanzerCommander said:
without the worry of having to fork out for repair bills that the monthly fee can’t cover should anything unforeseen crop up.
In a well-run group, this wouldn't be a factor as there should be a fund built up to cover the engine exploding or major components falling off. If not, find another group.Whichever flavour of licence you go for, a share in an aircraft almost always makes more sense than renting. Perhaps rent the 4 seater when you actually need it.
Doesn't help you answer the 'what to learn in' question, but the bottom line is that it doesn't really matter, it's all flying and converting from a to b to c isn't difficult. Don't get too hung up on costs (and don't assume you'll do any of them on the minimum hours either!) - take some trial flights in different stuff, get the vibe of some different schools, watch for hidden extras (sneaky landing fees or club memberships not mentioned in the costs) and reevaluate from there.
Can't comment on the myriad of other qualifications, but I would definitely recommend the PPL, it's a great challenge and will give you a lot of flexibility.
I agree you should go and sit in a C-152/150, they are cramped, but width is more of an issue than height. If you can get comfortable, then I think the 152 is the best aircraft to learn in, and also will save you significant money over the course. As others have said, the PA-28 and the 172 are more comfortable, but less fun to fly, in my view.
Doing the PPL on a grass strip will be daunting initially, but would be great experience, and give you the confidence to fly into other short strips up and down the country, which is a really fun part of GA in the UK.
My only other comment is that, before you start, think of how you're going to use the PPL. Doing little local flights with your friends and family will soon get boring, so you want to make sure you have the time, the passion and the money to do some more interesting flying.
I agree you should go and sit in a C-152/150, they are cramped, but width is more of an issue than height. If you can get comfortable, then I think the 152 is the best aircraft to learn in, and also will save you significant money over the course. As others have said, the PA-28 and the 172 are more comfortable, but less fun to fly, in my view.
Doing the PPL on a grass strip will be daunting initially, but would be great experience, and give you the confidence to fly into other short strips up and down the country, which is a really fun part of GA in the UK.
My only other comment is that, before you start, think of how you're going to use the PPL. Doing little local flights with your friends and family will soon get boring, so you want to make sure you have the time, the passion and the money to do some more interesting flying.
Thanks for the further responses.
It looks like it is probably going to be Humberside, having just looked at the road that leads to Linley Hill on Google earth street view, my car (2006 Mustang) is already hiding away saying "please don't make me do that" (its a bit low and stiff due to the racing mods) and during winter its going to be a PITA for it.
So I'll be popping over the river to one of the flying clubs that offers training in the not so distant future (tomorrow perhaps).
It looks like it is probably going to be Humberside, having just looked at the road that leads to Linley Hill on Google earth street view, my car (2006 Mustang) is already hiding away saying "please don't make me do that" (its a bit low and stiff due to the racing mods) and during winter its going to be a PITA for it.
So I'll be popping over the river to one of the flying clubs that offers training in the not so distant future (tomorrow perhaps).
I got my LAPL in mid 2014. Trained on grass at Manchester City - runway about 600m long, so a good challenge and if you can safely take off and land there, you can land pretty much anywhere.
I considered micro lights but after checking out all the flying schools and aircraft at my airfield, I just preferred the 152 for training. I've now converted into a PA28 which took 3 hours and have joined a group. Overall training time from start to skills test was 45 hours but spread over 18 months due to other commitments.
For my needs the LAPL is almost perfect as I don't want to carry more than 3 pax and I'm happy being limited to less than 2000kg MAUW and less than 250 kts speed. You can upgrade the basic LAPL and add night ratings and aerobatic ratings which is a nice option if needed. The only real drawback for me is that you can't add an IMC rating to a LAPL - that requires a full PPL. Apart from that it's an easier medical and easier to stay current. Highly recommended!
I considered micro lights but after checking out all the flying schools and aircraft at my airfield, I just preferred the 152 for training. I've now converted into a PA28 which took 3 hours and have joined a group. Overall training time from start to skills test was 45 hours but spread over 18 months due to other commitments.
For my needs the LAPL is almost perfect as I don't want to carry more than 3 pax and I'm happy being limited to less than 2000kg MAUW and less than 250 kts speed. You can upgrade the basic LAPL and add night ratings and aerobatic ratings which is a nice option if needed. The only real drawback for me is that you can't add an IMC rating to a LAPL - that requires a full PPL. Apart from that it's an easier medical and easier to stay current. Highly recommended!
randlemarcus said:
http://www.gbpom.co.uk/ is also worth a look. Run by a friend of mine, but very friendly
Thanks, I did look at them but I wanted to see if I could get along with the 150/152 first. If not they were to be my next port of call as they use the PA-28.Inkyfingers said:
I forgot to say...when you are training, prepare to lose a large percentage of your flying days due to the weather. It can get quite dispiriting at times.
I very quickly realised why people go to Florida to get their license!
As a drag racer it’s something I am very much used to. We had a large number of weekends last year where the race meetings were called due to rain before the first rounds of eliminations had gone down the track. I can handle weather related disappointment I very quickly realised why people go to Florida to get their license!
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