Trying to return/refund Item seller not keen.

[RB Will]

The OH bought me a new wallet as a Xmas present (bought on 12th Dec) from Amazon.
Wallet came from a seller, not Amazon themselves.
Wallet was fine on arrival.

Started using the wallet in the new year. After 1 week of use the inner card holder parts have started falling apart.
There has been no unusual use and the particular card slots in question have only had things like my AA card in so not even in regular use.

We feel the wallet is not of satisfactory quality and if falling apart being used for what it is designed for then not fit for purpose.

We contacted the seller for a refund/ replacement.
Seller refused saying its been too long since it was ordered and it was fine when it left them.

We explained the reason for delay and that yes the product was fine when supplied but has since fallen apart with less than normal use.

Seller said they use a similar wallet and its fine so I must have put it through a washing machine or on a radiator or something stupid and since its now damaged they wont be able to re sell it so tough.

We replied reinforcing our reasons and use.

Seller has now sent a snotty email basically saying we are bullstting them but they would like our experience to be happy so have offered us a 50% refund.

Thought this wasnt really on for 1 weeks use of the item so contacted Amazon directly who have replied to us and said sorry we cant help its been more than 14 days since you ordered it please deal with the seller.

So the question is do we just have to accept the 50% refund or is there a way to demand a full refund or replacement wallet from the seller?

[S10GTA]

How much was it?

[RB Will]

£20 So hardly the end of the world but my last wallet was £25 and has lasted me about 6 years not a week!

[Greengecko]

Open an A-Z Claim via Amazon, and go through that procedure.

[balls-out]

As I understand it, you have no 'claim' under the Consumer Contracts Regulations (which replaced distance selling). this is there to allow for the fact that you are buying unseen. 14 days is considerably longer than you have when you buy something in a shop, to look at it. So buying this before Xmas means that this avenue has long expired.

This leaves you with the standard (ie same as if you went into a shop) Sale of Goods Act. have a look at http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/...

given the value, I would take the offer and save the grief

[Steffan]

Greengecko said:

Open an A-Z Claim via Amazon, and go through that procedure.

Good Advice. I buy a lot from Amazon and had refunds whenever, rarely, the goods have been duff. Amazon will refund. The seller is trying it on. Good luck.

[balls-out]

Steffan said:

Greengecko said:

Open an A-Z Claim via Amazon, and go through that procedure.

Good Advice. I buy a lot from Amazon and had refunds whenever, rarely, the goods have been duff. Amazon will refund. The seller is trying it on. Good luck.

op said

Thought this wasnt really on for 1 weeks use of the item so contacted Amazon directly who have replied to us and said sorry we cant help its been more than 14 days since you ordered it please deal with the seller.

He bought it before Xmas.

[Steffan]

balls-out said:

Steffan said:

Greengecko said:

Open an A-Z Claim via Amazon, and go through that procedure.

Good Advice. I buy a lot from Amazon and had refunds whenever, rarely, the goods have been duff. Amazon will refund. The seller is trying it on. Good luck.

op said

Thought this wasnt really on for 1 weeks use of the item so contacted Amazon directly who have replied to us and said sorry we cant help its been more than 14 days since you ordered it please deal with the seller.

He bought it before Xmas.

Interesting reaction from Amazon. I do not think that is actually a legitimate defence under the Sale of Goods Act. I would push Amazon hard I cannot see they have a lawful defence. I will be interested to see how the OP fares. I think he will get a refund. I will watch with interest.

[balls-out]

Steffan said:

Interesting reaction from Amazon. I do not think that is actually a legitimate defence under the Sale of Goods Act. I would push Amazon hard I cannot see they have a lawful defence. I will be interested to see how the OP fares. I think he will get a refund. I will watch with interest.

I don't know what the status of the "Amazon marketplace" is and I dislike the way its blurred with the amazon.

The sale of goods will be about the contact between the vendor and OP

I suspect the OP contracted with another seller through Amazon MP (but I may be wrong), so Amazon actually have no oblations. They offer protection (for up to 28 days) as part of their 'added value' service. Not being the seller, I doubt SOGA applies to them here

[Steffan]

balls-out said:

Steffan said:

Interesting reaction from Amazon. I do not think that is actually a legitimate defence under the Sale of Goods Act. I would push Amazon hard I cannot see they have a lawful defence. I will be interested to see how the OP fares. I think he will get a refund. I will watch with interest.

I don't know what the status of the "Amazon marketplace" is and I dislike the way its blurred with the amazon.

The sale of goods will be about the contact between the vendor and OP

I suspect the OP contracted with another seller through Amazon MP (but I may be wrong), so Amazon actually have no oblations. They offer protection (for up to 28 days) as part of their 'added value' service. Not being the seller, I doubt SOGA applies to them here

You may well be right. To be certain the buyer needs to establish who his contract was actually with. You could well be correct if an independent seller has taken the order direct legally through the Amazon introduction. However I still think the buyers rights will be protected by SOGA against whomever he actually had his contract with. Equally the Distance Selling Regualtions will apply against that contract Did he pay with a CC I wonder or DD. Credit Cards shouod refund if pushed. DD might do so. Best if luck to tye OP I would be interested to hear the outcome.

[balls-out]

Steffan said:

You may well be right. To be certain the buyer needs to establish who his contract was actually with. You could well be correct if an independent seller has taken the order direct legally through the Amazon introduction. However I still think the buyers rights will be protected by SOGA against whomever he actually had his contract with. Equally the Distance Selling Regualtions will apply against that contract Did he pay with a CC I wonder or DD. Credit Cards shouod refund if pushed. DD might do so. Best if luck to tye OP I would be interested to hear the outcome.

Distance Selling Regulations has been replaced by Consumer Contracts Regulations, which says:

CCR said:

Your right to cancel Your right to cancel an order for goods starts the moment you place your order and ends 14 days from the day you receive your goods.

SOGA still applies

Being rather bored at work, I just reviewed the T&Cs, which clearly state that the contract is between the buyer and the seller (ie NOT amazon).

Edited by balls-out on Wednesday 4th February 17:36

[JustinP1]

Steffan said:

Interesting reaction from Amazon. I do not think that is actually a legitimate defence under the Sale of Goods Act. I would push Amazon hard I cannot see they have a lawful defence. I will be interested to see how the OP fares. I think he will get a refund. I will watch with interest.

The customer care at Amazon seem to be non-UK based, and have no actual understanding of the SoGA, and just follow particular workflows and policies.

I am currently in a tussle with them over the repair of a laptop less than 2 years old.

The laptop cost £1600, and is currently sold at £1100 used on their site. The repair is £500. They offered £400 in full and final settlement, and worded as a refund of the item based on the usage gained.

I have supplied them with a written report from Apple confirming that the fault is not user misuse, and the screen has abnormally failed and that if the item was under their warranty period it would be repaired.

I've corrected their position and given them the option to pay the direct cost of the repair, or offer a fair partial refund based upon the likely second hand value, or 50% of the purchase price.

The 'official' Amazon response was that because the engineer's report did not use the magic words 'inherent fault' (as if Apple employees are allowed to state such a thing in writing...) that all they will do is offer £400 as a refund for the laptop, and when I've asked them for their UK address for service of court documents, they've given me an address in Luxembourg.

Between me my small business, we've spent around £20,000 with Amazon over the last 3 years.

[Steffan]

JustinP1 said:

Steffan said:

Interesting reaction from Amazon. I do not think that is actually a legitimate defence under the Sale of Goods Act. I would push Amazon hard I cannot see they have a lawful defence. I will be interested to see how the OP fares. I think he will get a refund. I will watch with interest.

The customer care at Amazon seem to be non-UK based, and have no actual understanding of the SoGA, and just follow particular workflows and policies.

I am currently in a tussle with them over the repair of a laptop less than 2 years old.

The laptop cost £1600, and is currently sold at £1100 used on their site. The repair is £500. They offered £400 in full and final settlement, and worded as a refund of the item based on the usage gained.

I have supplied them with a written report from Apple confirming that the fault is not user misuse, and the screen has abnormally failed and that if the item was under their warranty period it would be repaired.

I've corrected their position and given them the option to pay the direct cost of the repair, or offer a fair partial refund based upon the likely second hand value, or 50% of the purchase price.

The 'official' Amazon response was that because the engineer's report did not use the magic words 'inherent fault' (as if Apple employees are allowed to state such a thing in writing...) that all they will do is offer £400 as a refund for the laptop, and when I've asked them for their UK address for service of court documents, they've given me an address in Luxembourg.

Between me my small business, we've spent around £20,000 with Amazon over the last 3 years.

I would suggest consulting a Solicitor on the matter. Was payment made by CC, DD or other method. Question really is who is your contract with and where is the contract legally based. If it is in the UK I can see a probable solution. However I can understand that if the contract is based overseas then it is a real problem. If these contracts are based in Luxembourg then I have no idea what the legal position is.

Was the transfer of the contract to an offshore company clearly agreed from the start? If not then I think there may be an action available against Amazon . Doubtless there are Solocitors specialising in such matters who could advise upon the matter. I have never used the alternatives offered by Amazon and therefore I have no direct experience thereof. I do wish you well. Clearly this is not a simple problem. I wonder if the OP has the same problem?

[JustinP1]

Steffan said:

I would suggest consulting a Solicitor on the matter. Was payment made by CC, DD or other method. Question really is who is your contract with and where is the contract legally based. If it is in the UK I can see a probable solution. However I can understand that if the contract is based overseas then it is a real problem. If these contracts are based in Luxembourg then I have no idea what the legal position is.

Was the transfer of the contract to an offshore company clearly agreed from the start? If not then I think there may be an action available against Amazon . Doubtless there are Solocitors specialising in such matters who could advise upon the matter. I have never used the alternatives offered by Amazon and therefore I have no direct experience thereof. I do wish you well. Clearly this is not a simple problem. I wonder if the OP has the same problem?

Don't get me wrong - I wasn't looking for an answer, although I agree with your interpretation.

My reason for mentioning my experience was to show that Amazon customer service generally don't have an understanding of UK law.

Indeed, even after this was escalated to an 'executive', they have made clear that effectively they are only allowed to follow Amazon's 'policy' which they can't show me. All you get is a stock letter with a derogatory partial refund, with the refund calculated somehow.

I know this to be the case as I raised the claim twice and got the same stock letter from two 'executives', interestingly with slightly different settlement values.

I mentioned it that I am shocked that a company who otherwise has such a great returns policy, is ignoring the law, seemingly systematically. I was also shocked that when I want to take things further, it seems I have to sue a company in Luxembourg...

[Steffan]

JustinP1 said:

Steffan said:

I would suggest consulting a Solicitor on the matter. Was payment made by CC, DD or other method. Question really is who is your contract with and where is the contract legally based. If it is in the UK I can see a probable solution. However I can understand that if the contract is based overseas then it is a real problem. If these contracts are based in Luxembourg then I have no idea what the legal position is.

Was the transfer of the contract to an offshore company clearly agreed from the start? If not then I think there may be an action available against Amazon . Doubtless there are Solocitors specialising in such matters who could advise upon the matter. I have never used the alternatives offered by Amazon and therefore I have no direct experience thereof. I do wish you well. Clearly this is not a simple problem. I wonder if the OP has the same problem?

Don't get me wrong - I wasn't looking for an answer, although I agree with your interpretation.

My reason for mentioning my experience was to show that Amazon customer service generally don't have an understanding of UK law.

Indeed, even after this was escalated to an 'executive', they have made clear that effectively they are only allowed to follow Amazon's 'policy' which they can't show me. All you get is a stock letter with a derogatory partial refund, with the refund calculated somehow.

I know this to be the case as I raised the claim twice and got the same stock letter from two 'executives', interestingly with slightly different settlement values.

I mentioned it that I am shocked that a company who otherwise has such a great returns policy, is ignoring the law, seemingly systematically. I was also shocked that when I want to take things further, it seems I have to sue a company in Luxembourg...

As a retired Chartered Accountant I have many years of experience with trying to resolve the activiies offshore companies trading in the UK toThe satisfaction of the IR who can and are very exacting and singularly unamused with offshore shenanigans.

Way beyond the practicalities of most buyers. The UK Government cannot actually manage the consequences of these offshore traders. Which is why Milliband and co are sabre rattling against them suggesting they will stop all such manoevering when in fact niether Balls or Miliiband are capable of engaging in taxation and the like at such levels. This is a lost cause in the UK because we are trading in a world market. Companies will position themselves to gain the most. Fact if life and railing against it is pointless.

Best of luck to the OP I do hope he resolves his refund. Clearly litigation is a non starter. I would be interested to hear what the local trading standards dept make of this. But again I think probably well beyond them.