Is less actually better?

[iandc]

The announcement of the Ferrari 488 hot on the heels of the 650S and Huracan got me thinking. All the supercar manufacturers are bringing out faster and faster models with more and more driver aids and go-faster devices. Given the opportunity to drive these cars anywhere near the limit is there more enjoyment to be had in earlier versions of said cars? (plus the obvious cost differential)
Can a 355 or 360/430 be more fun to drive in normal conditions than a 458/488? I moved from a 560-4 to an Aventador and, whilst the latter had more power and latest gizmos, the Gallardo was more fun to drive.
I guess there will always be a market for the latest models but perhaps it is time to re-think what we buy these cars for. Thoughts?

[Slickhillsy]

iandc said:

The announcement of the Ferrari 488 hot on the heels of the 650S and Huracan got me thinking. All the supercar manufacturers are bringing out faster and faster models with more and more driver aids and go-faster devices. Given the opportunity to drive these cars anywhere near the limit is there more enjoyment to be had in earlier versions of said cars? (plus the obvious cost differential)
Can a 355 or 360/430 be more fun to drive in normal conditions than a 458/488? I moved from a 560-4 to an Aventador and, whilst the latter had more power and latest gizmos, the Gallardo was more fun to drive.
I guess there will always be a market for the latest models but perhaps it is time to re-think what we buy these cars for. Thoughts?

Darwins law!

[70proof]

To me driving is about involvement, emotion, fear, exhilaration, and with older cars, you defo get that at slower speeds..... So yes, older is better.... Do lap times really matter.... The 488 is described as a car that even an idiot can drive... Why not get google to drive it as well.

[Ferruccio]

iandc said:

The announcement of the Ferrari 488 hot on the heels of the 650S and Huracan got me thinking. All the supercar manufacturers are bringing out faster and faster models with more and more driver aids and go-faster devices. Given the opportunity to drive these cars anywhere near the limit is there more enjoyment to be had in earlier versions of said cars? (plus the obvious cost differential)
Can a 355 or 360/430 be more fun to drive in normal conditions than a 458/488? I moved from a 560-4 to an Aventador and, whilst the latter had more power and latest gizmos, the Gallardo was more fun to drive.
I guess there will always be a market for the latest models but perhaps it is time to re-think what we buy these cars for. Thoughts?

Yes.
I had as much fun in a Mini 850, driving around London, foot on the floor much of the time, as anything else.........

[Mike Brown]

Is less better, absolutely , that's why the Ferrari 355, 360 , 430 , will increase in value, Mike

[Mike Brown]

Is less better, absolutely , that's why the Ferrari 355, 360 , 430 , will increase in value, Mike

[Slickhillsy]

Mike Brown said:

Is less better, absolutely , that's why the Ferrari 355, 360 , 430 , will increase in value, Mike

Strange comment this... These cars are not of the less is more type, that's left to the cs / Scud and alike. These things will increase simply because of the fact they will one day, each in turn, finish depreciating and become a covetable car. See 308 / 328 / 355 (there are acceptions 348 )

Personally I think this thing will be laugh out loud good and blow all of the above / standard earlier cars in to the weeds... To prove the case, each new standard car 430 / 458 now 488 has out performed the previous less is more version (Scud - 458 / Speciale - 488)

So in this case less is not more!

[GRBF430F1]

Slickhillsy said:

Strange comment this... These cars are not of the less is more type, that's left to the cs / Scud and alike. These things will increase simply because of the fact they will one day, each in turn, finish depreciating and become a covetable car. See 308 / 328 / 355 (there are acceptions 348 )

Personally I think this thing will be laugh out loud good and blow all of the above / standard earlier cars in to the weeds... To prove the case, each new standard car 430 / 458 now 488 has out performed the previous less is more version (Scud - 458 / Speciale - 488)

So in this case less is not more!

Yes in outright performance terms the newer cars are better ( even standard new model v old lightweight special ) but we are talking FUN factor here and not 0 - 60mph or Nurburgring times. There is only so fast you can go on public roads and I do think we are at that point where anymore performance is becoming pointless. The cars are becoming so darn good they are missing the fun/excitement element eg MP4 12C
430 scuderia is an exciting car with great soundtrack and fantastic gearbox but even that is too much for public roads these days ( unless you are up at 5.00 am on a sunny sunday am )

When I think back to some of the late 80/90's hot hatches with 130 bhp and weight of 800Kgs those cars were very involving and exciting at the time ( at least for me in my yuff )

I can see both points of views so maybe I need to go out and buy another RS Turbo or Escort RS Cosworth again ( if I can afford a decent one )

[Hollowpockets]

In some cases less is more, that's why you need to buy a bigger garage, look at manual cars, buy a TVR, an Aston, a Ford and a few other toys Italians aside... Then you can pick the right car, for the right day of the week

[sone]

Give me a La Ferrari, P1 or 918 Porsche any day, if poor handling low power and poor reliability is more fun then I'll give it a miss. You don't have to drive these cars at 10/10ths to enjoy them I enjoy my Aventador at 10 miles an hour seeing people's reaction when they see it.
I've owned and driven a few iconic cars and quite honestly wondered what all the fuss is about. If money wasn't a factor I'd wager most would have new cars in their garage if truths only known.

[Slickhillsy]

sone said:

Give me a La Ferrari, P1 or 918 Porsche any day, if poor handling low power and poor reliability is more fun then I'll give it a miss. You don't have to drive these cars at 10/10ths to enjoy them I enjoy my Aventador at 10 miles an hour seeing people's reaction when they see it.
I've owned and driven a few iconic cars and quite honestly wondered what all the fuss is about. If money wasn't a factor I'd wager most would have new cars in their garage if truths only known.

Bingo!

[Camlet]

For me, there's no link. Is a Pixar film better or worse than a Disney animated classic? Depends on the film, the experience and what an individual wants at a specific point in time. Both studios (now both Disney) have created incredible work.

A 599 GTO is a totally different experience from an F40, in every way. But both are very special experiences. A truly great car will have that certain X-Factor irrespective of its age, power output, badge or price. That's what makes truly great cars so wonderful. But let's enjoy the debate while we can.

I had to go to CES (Consumer Electronics Show) for business. It's always a zoo. But always fascinating. This year auto makers were out in force. Automated driving systems is hot. Mercedes showed their vision of the future. A car that has no steering wheel. One major client of mine said how exciting the world is becoming - and that ADS is inevitable since humans do not optimise traffic flows and create billions of hours of wasted time stuck in traffic. I smiled and nodded........he's a big client. This is definitely not progress for me. Like looking at Concorde parked up at Heathrow with no where to go.

Let's celebrate the truly great cars: young, old, 80 bhp or 800 bhp.

Fortunately I'll be bug food long before the wretched ADS vision becomes a reality.

Edited by Camlet on Friday 6th February 05:51

[V8Vroom]

GRBF430F1 said:

When I think back to some of the late 80/90's hot hatches with 130 bhp and weight of 800Kgs those cars were very involving and exciting at the time ( at least for me in my yuff )

Yes - I agree and hence my fun car is the Suzuki Swift Sport with 130 bhp and around 1000Kgs - fantastic on the little white roads I commute on! It is nice to have the 360 AS WELL though

• also just noted I've been a member of this forum for 13 years! OMG*

Edited by V8Vroom on Friday 6th February 11:36

[anonymous-user]

I had the privilege of driving a 275 GTB around Brands, and then drove a Murci. The 275 was much more fun and involved with progressive breakaway, and the noise very seductive.
Nothing against the Murci, but when both were bumped up outside the Kentagon for lunch, it was the 275 which had people gathering around

[Mike Brown]

I had the privilege of driving a 275 GTB around Brands, and then drove a Murci. The 275 was much more fun and involved with progressive breakaway, and the noise very seductive.
Nothing against the Murci, but when both were bumped up outside the Kentagon for lunch, it was the 275 which had people gathering around smile
That's just what happens wherever I am with the 360, it's red cream and a spider and people just see a"Ferrari" someone asked me if it was worth £140k last summer, so is less more, possibly, Mike

[hunter 66]

Beards on the Supercar forum as well not just pork ........... so we all want to go much slower as long as we can can have nice slow slide ...... boring .. speed is everything ....

[sone]

Bo_apex said:

I had the privilege of driving a 275 GTB around Brands, and then drove a Murci. The 275 was much more fun and involved with progressive breakaway, and the noise very seductive.
Nothing against the Murci, but when both were bumped up outside the Kentagon for lunch, it was the 275 which had people gathering around

.

Probably thought it needed a push (-:

[jackal]

sone said:

Give me a La Ferrari, P1 or 918 Porsche any day, if poor handling low power and poor reliability is more fun then I'll give it a miss. You don't have to drive these cars at 10/10ths to enjoy them I enjoy my Aventador at 10 miles an hour seeing people's reaction when they see it.
I've owned and driven a few iconic cars and quite honestly wondered what all the fuss is about. If money wasn't a factor I'd wager most would have new cars in their garage if truths only known.

We are all different sorts of drivers and for me i mostly disagree. Yes you enjoy cars for all different sorts of reasons and in all sorts of different scenarios but the enjoyment and satisfaction you get from transcending a car and properly wringing it out is umpteen times more intense than anything else you might do.

Op makes a lot of sense, the only thing he got wrong is that as far as uk roads are concerned, we passed this point many many years ago. 1400kg + 350-400bhp + manual box is a very very quick car for the piblic road. If its not quick then you're not driving it properly.

[anonymous-user]

sone said:

Probably thought it needed a push (-:

It's a touch wasteful that it didn't, there's a useful down slope from the Kentagon. A Countach did have some trouble starting, but sounded glorious when it got there

[L33]

Slickhillsy said:

sone said:

Give me a La Ferrari, P1 or 918 Porsche any day, if poor handling low power and poor reliability is more fun then I'll give it a miss. You don't have to drive these cars at 10/10ths to enjoy them I enjoy my Aventador at 10 miles an hour seeing people's reaction when they see it.
I've owned and driven a few iconic cars and quite honestly wondered what all the fuss is about. If money wasn't a factor I'd wager most would have new cars in their garage if truths only known.

Bingo!

+2
Couldn't have put it better myself.