Disappointed with second hand Patek purchase.....
Discussion
Following on from my whinging about the Patek Philippe watches on ebay that are clearly swindles, I bought a nautilus complication from a British second hand watch shop. There were a few similar watches in Italy, one in Manaco and I thought that staying British would avoid nasty exchange rate surprises.
It arrived and the negatives were that it had not been serviced as I had been lead to believe. It had not been back to Patek it had, when I questioned it, been serviced by our 'experienced in house team'. Fine, but I felt slightly mislaid. I have had a Rolex Submariner for fifteen years and it has been back to Rolex once. It has been serviced once. I haven't taken it anywhere else on purpose, because it would devalue it...?
I also couldn't get the watch on. I do not have particularly big wrists, but nearly all the links that could have been removed had been.
I also couldn't set the moon phase complication since there was no stylus. It had been removed too. When I questioned the shop, I was told to send it back and they would put links in to suit my wrist and provide a stylus....
Fine, that seems to resolve my problem but I want all the links for when my wrist gets fatter in summer and thinner in winter. I also cannot imagine why they would allow it about of the shop like that? Putting it around the cushion in the box is so difficult it is obvious that there are a good few links missing. I get the feeling that they have removed everything that they could from the watch and they are now in a position to sell a watch for nearly £20 000 and then sell the links and stylus for another £2 500 (values from ebay, currently).
I am very tempted to send it back and start again. I have a nagging feeling that I have been had slightly and if it has been serviced by them I will never get it out of my mind that they have removed some other part....
So... Am I being stupid?
It arrived and the negatives were that it had not been serviced as I had been lead to believe. It had not been back to Patek it had, when I questioned it, been serviced by our 'experienced in house team'. Fine, but I felt slightly mislaid. I have had a Rolex Submariner for fifteen years and it has been back to Rolex once. It has been serviced once. I haven't taken it anywhere else on purpose, because it would devalue it...?
I also couldn't get the watch on. I do not have particularly big wrists, but nearly all the links that could have been removed had been.
I also couldn't set the moon phase complication since there was no stylus. It had been removed too. When I questioned the shop, I was told to send it back and they would put links in to suit my wrist and provide a stylus....
Fine, that seems to resolve my problem but I want all the links for when my wrist gets fatter in summer and thinner in winter. I also cannot imagine why they would allow it about of the shop like that? Putting it around the cushion in the box is so difficult it is obvious that there are a good few links missing. I get the feeling that they have removed everything that they could from the watch and they are now in a position to sell a watch for nearly £20 000 and then sell the links and stylus for another £2 500 (values from ebay, currently).
I am very tempted to send it back and start again. I have a nagging feeling that I have been had slightly and if it has been serviced by them I will never get it out of my mind that they have removed some other part....
So... Am I being stupid?
I wouldnt have thought it would be unreasonable when spending near 20k on a watch to expect a great service and for everything to be as it should be when purchasing..... Yes people make mistakes and things can can happen out of the seller's control etc but from the sounds of it they regularly sell high end goods so things like you describe shouldn't happen.
TBH it sounds as if you have made your mind up already, if it's going to niggle at you (esp the service aspect) then I'd return and go elsewhere.....If you are spending that kind of money I'd personally hop on a cheap flight to Europe and see in person (I'd just brought a sd4000 from Madrid - was definitely worth the effort of sourcing from Europe, and I saved almost 2k off list)
TBH it sounds as if you have made your mind up already, if it's going to niggle at you (esp the service aspect) then I'd return and go elsewhere.....If you are spending that kind of money I'd personally hop on a cheap flight to Europe and see in person (I'd just brought a sd4000 from Madrid - was definitely worth the effort of sourcing from Europe, and I saved almost 2k off list)
OP - if I was as unhappy as you sound, I would return it (distance selling regs/cooling off period) for a full refund and then look elsewhere.
At this level of the market you deserve to be fully satisfied and the buying experience should be exemplary.
As frustrating as it sounds, I'd return it and begin the hunt again
At this level of the market you deserve to be fully satisfied and the buying experience should be exemplary.
As frustrating as it sounds, I'd return it and begin the hunt again
Would Patek be able to give you a quote for the service? Ask for this amount to be refunded.... an 'in-house' team is not the same as Patek themselves, everyone knows that.
How come the shop has the links??!! What are they doing with them? Why retain them? Very odd.
I'd get onto the shop immediately and tell them you are thinking of returning the watch and get their confirmation that you are entitled to a full refund.
How come the shop has the links??!! What are they doing with them? Why retain them? Very odd.
I'd get onto the shop immediately and tell them you are thinking of returning the watch and get their confirmation that you are entitled to a full refund.
Spice_Weasel said:
OP - if I was as unhappy as you sound, I would return it (distance selling regs/cooling off period) for a full refund and then look elsewhere.
At this level of the market you deserve to be fully satisfied and the buying experience should be exemplary.
As frustrating as it sounds, I'd return it and begin the hunt again
Absolutely!At this level of the market you deserve to be fully satisfied and the buying experience should be exemplary.
As frustrating as it sounds, I'd return it and begin the hunt again
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it. I feel very much as if this is a first world problem but I cannot get over how disappointed/irritated I am. It has taken months to pluck up the courage to do this, to convince both myself and my wife that it was acceptable and now I really regret it.
Time to book a flight to Monaco!
Time to book a flight to Monaco!
minerva said:
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it. I feel very much as if this is a first world problem but I cannot get over how disappointed/irritated I am. It has taken months to pluck up the courage to do this, to convince both myself and my wife that it was acceptable and now I really regret it.
Time to book a flight to Monaco!
A watch is such a personal thing and if something starts to irritate you, it won't go away.Time to book a flight to Monaco!
Get confirmation from the shop that they'll take it back for a full refund.... maybe take the watch into Patek and get a price on a service? Is the shop offering to put additional 'links' or the 'original links'.
If you've made a massive saving on retail, then it might be worth seeing if the shop will give you a refund on the service price.
I've just had a Breguet serviced, by Breguet. It came back better than new. This might restore your confidence a bit if Patek serviced it and you love the watch?
The thing with the service is a service by Patek takes months and costs £thousands. I bought it because it HAD been serviced, not so that I could wait dfor months to HAVE it serviced.
If I were purchasing a Mondeo (as I have in the past), I would accept 'home servicing', but not a Rolls Royce (rubbish metaphor, but you know what I mean!) in fact, I would only accept home serving with receipts for parts, which this watch doesn't have.
If I were purchasing a Mondeo (as I have in the past), I would accept 'home servicing', but not a Rolls Royce (rubbish metaphor, but you know what I mean!) in fact, I would only accept home serving with receipts for parts, which this watch doesn't have.
Sorry for the confusion but is it correct that the watch you have doesn't fit your wrists and doesn't have any spare links?
Whether you're right or wrong, ( I agree with you BTW) if you're not happy send it back. It's a lot of money to spend and you want to enjoy your new watch. If you feel like this now, just return it.
Unless this is just buyers remorse, in which case just ignore it and it will go away, and then you will still have a Patek.
Whether you're right or wrong, ( I agree with you BTW) if you're not happy send it back. It's a lot of money to spend and you want to enjoy your new watch. If you feel like this now, just return it.
Unless this is just buyers remorse, in which case just ignore it and it will go away, and then you will still have a Patek.
minerva said:
It has taken months to pluck up the courage to do this
Whoa there! How long have you had the watch? If it's months, they will probably tell you to do one I'm afraid; however, you may get your money back on what I assume is a 5512 as prices are firm right now.For reference, I bought a 5980 from Germany. Basic ad on chrono24, watch looked in decent condition, B&P etc and was a good price.
Emails for a week or two, then I called them. I negotiated £1500 off; I then found out the watch had been fully serviced by PP in 2012, and then sent back to PP again in Oct 2014 for a pre-sale re-furb and check over to make it perfect for sale (so it has two sets of PP paperwork). When it arrived, it had every link PLUS the optional 3/4 (or 2/3) link to make the bracelet size perfect. They took care of insured next-day postage, they were even amusing on the phone about the British Royal family.
THAT is how you sell a watch at this level. These guys have shafted you.
I had similar from a well known (and recommended) 'specialist'!
Bought a watch for a good four-figure sum, unseen, over email after discussion.
It arrived with so few links that I could barely get it over my hand (this is a men's diving watch).
I sent a message and a couple of links were sent out. They were not the right style (polished/ unpolished sides).
Thankfully for me, the wonderful Dominic H swapped the links I had been given for some spare, correct ones he had - no charge. Bear in mind he DIDN'T even sell me the watch! He is the man to deal with! Absolute gentleman!
Incidentally, the watch I bought was also missing the standard wet suit extension piece. The specialist told me the watch doesn't come from the manufacturer with one so that's the way it is. It does, he'll have known that so I feel like I've been fobbed off there.
I've kept the watch (this was 18 months or so ago), I wear it regularly but to say I was disappointed was an understatement. I won't buy from there ever again.
Get a refund for a £20k watch - that's not good enough and you'll never be happy.
Bought a watch for a good four-figure sum, unseen, over email after discussion.
It arrived with so few links that I could barely get it over my hand (this is a men's diving watch).
I sent a message and a couple of links were sent out. They were not the right style (polished/ unpolished sides).
Thankfully for me, the wonderful Dominic H swapped the links I had been given for some spare, correct ones he had - no charge. Bear in mind he DIDN'T even sell me the watch! He is the man to deal with! Absolute gentleman!
Incidentally, the watch I bought was also missing the standard wet suit extension piece. The specialist told me the watch doesn't come from the manufacturer with one so that's the way it is. It does, he'll have known that so I feel like I've been fobbed off there.
I've kept the watch (this was 18 months or so ago), I wear it regularly but to say I was disappointed was an understatement. I won't buy from there ever again.
Get a refund for a £20k watch - that's not good enough and you'll never be happy.
As others have said, if you're paying almost the cost of a small (admittedly run-down) cottage in these parts for a watch then you deserve to be either 110% happy with your purchase or taken outside and shot during the revolution, depending on political ideals!
The matter of links and stylus does seem rather odd - they're both virtually impossible to obtain except by official dealers, so the fact they have some just lying around waiting for your watch strongly suggests they've removed as much valuable stuff as they think they can get away with before sale. I'm pretty laid back about these things but not sure I'd be happy dealing with a company that does that!
The one thing I'd slightly disagree with is the matter of servicing. It's unfortunate that the manufacturers actively promote the idea that anything other than their service department is akin to "home servicing", and even more unfortunate that many otherwise intelligent people are happy to fall for it.
There are plenty of independent watchmakers out there who could service something like this every bit as well as the maker. Incidentally, in this case I'd probably pass on it myself - I'm more than capable of servicing them but don't see enough of this end of the market to be comfortable taking them in except from those few regular customers who've become almost friends. One of the most important rules in this business is know your limitations!!!
Sadly, as long as the makers succeed in giving the impression that anyone but their own watchmakers are bumbling fools who'll turn your watch into scrap they'll continue to get away with charging frankly outrageous prices for what is actually fairly mundane work.
Out of interest, seeing as you used Rolls Royce as an analogy, in a previous life I spent a year at Crewe as an undergraduate apprentice. At the time many Saudi customers used to ship their cars over for regular servicing. The basic servicing cost by the book was around £1000 (this was in the mid '80s) but the service department mechanics were quite cheerful that they'd feel they'd failed if they couldn't bump that up to at least £3k with unnecessary "extras" by the time they'd finished. They justified that on the basis of maintaining the aura of brand quality.
Effectively they played on the idea that, if it cost that much to fix, then it must be good rather than the (far more more logical) view that, if it's that good to start with, it shouldn't need much fixing beyond regular oil changes etc. Most luxury goods operate service departments on the same basis
The matter of links and stylus does seem rather odd - they're both virtually impossible to obtain except by official dealers, so the fact they have some just lying around waiting for your watch strongly suggests they've removed as much valuable stuff as they think they can get away with before sale. I'm pretty laid back about these things but not sure I'd be happy dealing with a company that does that!
The one thing I'd slightly disagree with is the matter of servicing. It's unfortunate that the manufacturers actively promote the idea that anything other than their service department is akin to "home servicing", and even more unfortunate that many otherwise intelligent people are happy to fall for it.
There are plenty of independent watchmakers out there who could service something like this every bit as well as the maker. Incidentally, in this case I'd probably pass on it myself - I'm more than capable of servicing them but don't see enough of this end of the market to be comfortable taking them in except from those few regular customers who've become almost friends. One of the most important rules in this business is know your limitations!!!
Sadly, as long as the makers succeed in giving the impression that anyone but their own watchmakers are bumbling fools who'll turn your watch into scrap they'll continue to get away with charging frankly outrageous prices for what is actually fairly mundane work.
Out of interest, seeing as you used Rolls Royce as an analogy, in a previous life I spent a year at Crewe as an undergraduate apprentice. At the time many Saudi customers used to ship their cars over for regular servicing. The basic servicing cost by the book was around £1000 (this was in the mid '80s) but the service department mechanics were quite cheerful that they'd feel they'd failed if they couldn't bump that up to at least £3k with unnecessary "extras" by the time they'd finished. They justified that on the basis of maintaining the aura of brand quality.
Effectively they played on the idea that, if it cost that much to fix, then it must be good rather than the (far more more logical) view that, if it's that good to start with, it shouldn't need much fixing beyond regular oil changes etc. Most luxury goods operate service departments on the same basis
yeti said:
minerva said:
It has taken months to pluck up the courage to do this
Whoa there! How long have you had the watch? If it's months, they will probably tell you to do one I'm afraid; however, you may get your money back on what I assume is a 5512 as prices are firm right now.
If it was bought months back then the OP's position is certainly weakened, agreed.
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