Cyclist-unfriendly lorries banned from London.
Discussion
Not before time. Although there is yet to be built a cyclist friendly lorry.
http://www.logisticsmanager.com/2015/02/london-to-...
It would be nice to enforce a no lorries inside the M25 ban then all the Londoners could use donkeys and handcarts to collect their sofa's, beds, aggregate, steel etc from distribution centres 
There should be a transport tax/levy on all goods inside the M25 feck em
I have heard mentioned previously you may have to be Fors registered to operate in that part of the world?
http://www.fors-online.org.uk/cms/
Also here http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&...
There should be a transport tax/levy on all goods inside the M25 feck em
I have heard mentioned previously you may have to be Fors registered to operate in that part of the world?
http://www.fors-online.org.uk/cms/
Also here http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&...
colonel c said:
Not before time. Although there is yet to be built a cyclist friendly lorry.
http://www.logisticsmanager.com/2015/02/london-to-...
Compare this low cab design:http://www.logisticsmanager.com/2015/02/london-to-...
Which is the type of design (based on that of bin-lorries, which were designed in such a way as to avoid running over the bin-men, being able to see them was considered useful) that it is hoped will be used in future in urban environments, contrasted with the older style of design:
The yellow HGV has side bars etc, but the "hard to see" area's are hugely larger than with the newer design.
HGV's represent 4% of the road miles covered by London traffic, yet over 50% of all cyclist fatalities are caused by HGV drivers failing to see the cyclist.
This is a good move, hopefully it will make the roads a safer place.
You know how those nice Gas Torches look nice outside classy nightclubs in London? Perhaps two or three of those, which light up on the side the indicator is operating on? Might prevent cyclists nipping up the inside once the indicator goes on. Unless those snazzy bus/lorry things have equally large amounts of glass on the other side, to spot people in entirely the wrong place when turning left?
randlemarcus said:
You know how those nice Gas Torches look nice outside classy nightclubs in London? Perhaps two or three of those, which light up on the side the indicator is operating on? Might prevent cyclists nipping up the inside once the indicator goes on. Unless those snazzy bus/lorry things have equally large amounts of glass on the other side, to spot people in entirely the wrong place when turning left?
Idiot. Hugo a Gogo said:
always the predictable "stop cyclists nipping up the side and getting themselves run over' comments
maybe, just maybe, that's not always the case
Note that I am not victim blaming - if the bus/lorry has huge glass on the nearside as well, then a quick glance would show squishy things where your lorry body is about to be. The flames are simply there to stop other squishy things joining the blameless ones who were already there.maybe, just maybe, that's not always the case
Going up the inside of a lorry which is signalling to turn left should not be met by the death sentence, which currently it often is due to the lorry driver not having the ability/choosing to check all of the mirrors needed to see that he or she is about to kill someone.
Larger glass areas, lower cabs, overall greater ability to see - these are all hugely positive things that should make a difference to the number of deaths on London's roads.
Stopping lorries from using the roads during peak commuting times would probably reduce the number of deaths they cause by a significant amount also, as 90% of London cyclists are present on the roads only at rush hour.
It'd also reduce congestion for all commuters, but I imagine we will continue to prioritise timely Daffodil delivery ahead of congestion and casualty reduction.
Larger glass areas, lower cabs, overall greater ability to see - these are all hugely positive things that should make a difference to the number of deaths on London's roads.
Stopping lorries from using the roads during peak commuting times would probably reduce the number of deaths they cause by a significant amount also, as 90% of London cyclists are present on the roads only at rush hour.
It'd also reduce congestion for all commuters, but I imagine we will continue to prioritise timely Daffodil delivery ahead of congestion and casualty reduction.
A great example of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum well done.
KrazyIvan said:
Awesome idea, next could be large vans, then busses, 4x4s, cars until they have the road all to themselves and London grinds to a halt. Typical cyclists mentality "I am a vulnerable road user, so my safety is everyone else problem."
Take your head from your behind. Trucks makes up a tiny percentage of traffic but account for a huge amount of the deaths of cyclists in London. This is a good thing. London will not grind to a halt because a few less people stop driving into zone 1. Eventually it won't be possible anyway so people may aswell get used to it.
I don't know how many lorries come into London without all the correct classes of mirrors but in my experience of dealing with fatals they usually have them. For example, any HGV company working with any public sector contract will have signed up to various schemes to insure their vehicles and drivers are up to scratch.
There also needs to be a change in logistics, including using the river more. I’ve heard only 10% off the materials for the Battersea Power station development is using the river. I’m not an expert but I’m sure that could be increased considering its locations
Education is needed, I think every cyclists needs to do an exchanging places (get in the cab to see what they can see), it’s a massive eye opener!
There has been massive talk about segregation in London, with TFL approving the various routes. The problems are the junctions, that’s where people get killed and where the segregation ends.
There also needs to be a change in logistics, including using the river more. I’ve heard only 10% off the materials for the Battersea Power station development is using the river. I’m not an expert but I’m sure that could be increased considering its locations
Education is needed, I think every cyclists needs to do an exchanging places (get in the cab to see what they can see), it’s a massive eye opener!
There has been massive talk about segregation in London, with TFL approving the various routes. The problems are the junctions, that’s where people get killed and where the segregation ends.
HGV drivers have complained about the work-rate required to check all the mirrors being impossible to sustain, therefore even on a modern truck with all the required mirrors visibility is still not sufficient for them to be driven in heavy urban traffic.
How true that is I don't know, but I've seen an HGV driver roll forwards over a cyclist in front of him at the junction which is at the foot of London Bridge, south-side.
He'd have seen her if he'd looked in the mirror that showed the area in front of his cab.
Bike is under the wheels, he pushed the lady along on her back with her feet on his bumper for some time before he noticed that everyone in the local area was screaming at him to stop.
"Who me?"
The truck had driven up behind the lady who was waiting at the lights, then drove into/over her.
She'd not approached from behind, gone down the left etc etc - was totally, 100% blameless, but almost died that morning.
How true that is I don't know, but I've seen an HGV driver roll forwards over a cyclist in front of him at the junction which is at the foot of London Bridge, south-side.
He'd have seen her if he'd looked in the mirror that showed the area in front of his cab.
Bike is under the wheels, he pushed the lady along on her back with her feet on his bumper for some time before he noticed that everyone in the local area was screaming at him to stop.
"Who me?"
The truck had driven up behind the lady who was waiting at the lights, then drove into/over her.
She'd not approached from behind, gone down the left etc etc - was totally, 100% blameless, but almost died that morning.
Edited by Dammit on Saturday 7th February 16:37
Dammit said:
HGV's represent 4% of the road miles covered by London traffic, yet over 50% of all cyclist fatalities are caused by cyclists failing to see the fooking big truck or understand how it maneuvers despite big yellow stickers all over the bag of it
Is that better ?okgo said:
Idiot.
Cyclist whiner ?okgo said:
KrazyIvan said:
Awesome idea, next could be large vans, then busses, 4x4s, cars until they have the road all to themselves and London grinds to a halt. Typical cyclists mentality "I am a vulnerable road user, so my safety is everyone else problem."
Take your head from your behind.okgo said:
Trucks makes up a tiny percentage of traffic but account for a huge amount of the deaths of cyclists in London. This is a good thing.
London will not grind to a halt because a few less people stop driving into zone 1. Eventually it won't be possible anyway so people may aswell get used to it.
I bet a 10th of that tiny percentage of trucks carry more freight than what would be carried by ten times the amount of cyclists.London will not grind to a halt because a few less people stop driving into zone 1. Eventually it won't be possible anyway so people may aswell get used to it.
Maybe you should start growing cress or something to feed yourself ?
speedyguy said:
I bet a 10th of that tiny percentage of trucks carry more freight than what would be carried by ten times the amount of cyclists.
Maybe you should start growing cress or something to feed yourself ?
Another victim blamer. Sigh. Despite all the data we have seen about motorists often being at fault the 'car rules all' mentality is strong round here. I love cars but will welcome the day they're banned from z1 and commercial vehicles trucks are restricted to certain hours. Maybe you should start growing cress or something to feed yourself ?
one of the fors scheme requirements is an audible warning that tells cyclists not to go up the inside of a truck when it is signalling to turn left
in addition a sensor system a bit like a reversing sensor warns the driver of anyone alongside (unfortunately this is set off by railings, lamp posts even heavy rain)
so now cyclists are warned by the trucks indicator and side repeaters, a big yellow sign saying do not pass on this side and now a voice command to stay away this vehicle is turning left it wont make a blind bit of difference people will still put themselves at risk
in addition a sensor system a bit like a reversing sensor warns the driver of anyone alongside (unfortunately this is set off by railings, lamp posts even heavy rain)
so now cyclists are warned by the trucks indicator and side repeaters, a big yellow sign saying do not pass on this side and now a voice command to stay away this vehicle is turning left it wont make a blind bit of difference people will still put themselves at risk
Dammit said:
Compare this low cab design:
Which is the type of design (based on that of bin-lorries, which were designed in such a way as to avoid running over the bin-men, being able to see them was considered useful) that it is hoped will be used in future in urban environments, contrasted with the older style of design:
The yellow HGV has side bars etc, but the "hard to see" area's are hugely larger than with the newer design.
HGV's represent 4% of the road miles covered by London traffic, yet over 50% of all cyclist fatalities are caused by HGV drivers failing to see the cyclist.
This is a good move, hopefully it will make the roads a safer place.
If you're using the same article I read earlier the quote is:Which is the type of design (based on that of bin-lorries, which were designed in such a way as to avoid running over the bin-men, being able to see them was considered useful) that it is hoped will be used in future in urban environments, contrasted with the older style of design:
The yellow HGV has side bars etc, but the "hard to see" area's are hugely larger than with the newer design.
HGV's represent 4% of the road miles covered by London traffic, yet over 50% of all cyclist fatalities are caused by HGV drivers failing to see the cyclist.
This is a good move, hopefully it will make the roads a safer place.
"HGV's represent 4% of the road miles covered by London traffic, yet are involved in 50% of all cyclist fatalities".
When I read that this morning, it did cross my mind that while lorries are involved in 50% of cyclist fatalities.... cyclists are involved in 100%
Which kind of links into the lorry images you posted. Yes, the new cab has better visibility around the side of the cab but how many accidents / fatalities are further along the lorry / tralier?
I'm not saying do nothing, I'm saying one thing won't fix everything.
And be careful around lorries.
That's a bit like saying 100% of Harold Shipman's victims were people.
It's true, but meaningless - unless of course you are trying to blame the victims for being, well, victims.
The change in design won't fix things - the problem is that in some cases cyclists position themselves unwisely, and in all cases the driver doesn't (or can't) look.
In the case I posted photographs of the driver simply didn't pay attention, and almost killed someone - that's the root of the problem.
A cyclist who doesn't pay attention possibly hurt themselves when they run into the back of a van. The van driver will be fine.
A lorry driver who doesn't pay attention can become responsible for the death of another human being very, very rapidly.
Ultimately the role of delivery driver will be one of the first to be automated and this risk will recede, but for now we need to do what we can to tackle it.
It's true, but meaningless - unless of course you are trying to blame the victims for being, well, victims.
The change in design won't fix things - the problem is that in some cases cyclists position themselves unwisely, and in all cases the driver doesn't (or can't) look.
In the case I posted photographs of the driver simply didn't pay attention, and almost killed someone - that's the root of the problem.
A cyclist who doesn't pay attention possibly hurt themselves when they run into the back of a van. The van driver will be fine.
A lorry driver who doesn't pay attention can become responsible for the death of another human being very, very rapidly.
Ultimately the role of delivery driver will be one of the first to be automated and this risk will recede, but for now we need to do what we can to tackle it.
Edited by Dammit on Saturday 7th February 17:17
Edited by Dammit on Saturday 7th February 17:18
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