Aaargh, Hot Hatch Dilemma - Clio 182 vs R53 Mini Cooper S

[Chuck21]

Guys,

Seeking some views on a mega-dilemma. I'm looking for a fun car to commute in (30 miles each day) for £3k. Today I saw a Clio 182 (both cup packs) and a Mini Cooper S, both lovely condition, both FSH, both enthusiast owned, and both great fun! The Mini is older (2002, the Clio is 2005) but is in great condition and very tight and both are priced similarly. The Clio is £3k but needs a cambelt (£500) and the Mini is £3,500 but seems in superb condition.

I'd really welcome your thoughts on each as a commuter car (+ weekend fun) and in terms of running costs and reliability.

Much appreciated!

[phib]

I would drive both, I did a while back and would have bought the mini, the 182 was just too small and badly put together v the mini.

IMHO

The supercharger was also addictive

Phib

[Defcon5]

Had a Cooper S for a while, great fun. 200+ bhp is cheap and easy (smaller pulley and intercooler, no remap needed)

There are a few common faults (PAS pump, wishbone bushes, xenons) but they are cheap to fix and will prob already have been done already at that age.

They are however rather inefficient, not sure I'd enjoy spending 15 quid a day driving to work and back! Having said that I can't imagine the 182 will be that much better.

The supercharger whine and the popping exhaust are worth the extra fuel cost in the MCS to be fair

[egor110]

The cups are pretty basic compared to the mini.

No aircon, less sound deadening, thinner glass even no abs in my 172 so motorway runs are a bit of a 'mare, however they are very light and driving them is a laugh.

The guy who owns evo mag said in a video review you can't help driving them like a tit and i think that's pretty accurate.

One last thing there pretty good on petrol, but saying that i'm comparing it to my grand cherokee!

[TTmonkey]

Cooper S. simply brilliant car.

[Chuck21]

Thanks guys, I must admit I'm surprised, I thought PH members would be in favour of the Clio! The mini did feel more 'solid' but the Clio is stupidly quick for such a small car and the throttle response is a lot of fun compared to the slightly lazier supercharged Mini, at the same time the SC whine is lovely and has good low rev pick-up. The Clio is technically faster but in reality there's very little in it despite the near 20bhp difference (plus the Clio is lighter); I also suspect the Clio would be more fun on track but I'm happy to get opinions on that.

[inabox]

The 182 with both cup packs is quite a civilised place to be, climate control, auto xenon's etc.

Fun and fast, the Clio would be my choice but if you like power you can't do right much with it. And the seating position is crap.

[egor110]

inabox said:

The 182 with both cup packs is quite a civilised place to be, climate control, auto xenon's etc.

Fun and fast, the Clio would be my choice but if you like power you can't do right much with it. And the seating position is crap.

What are the two cup packs?

I thought it was either the comfy 182 or the lighter , better suspension cup version?

[TTmonkey]

Chuck21 said:

Thanks guys, I must admit I'm surprised, I thought PH members would be in favour of the Clio! The mini did feel more 'solid' but the Clio is stupidly quick for such a small car and the throttle response is a lot of fun compared to the slightly lazier supercharged Mini, at the same time the SC whine is lovely and has good low rev pick-up. The Clio is technically faster but in reality there's very little in it despite the near 20bhp difference (plus the Clio is lighter); I also suspect the Clio would be more fun on track but I'm happy to get opinions on that.

Hmmm, lazy mini S.... Not sure why that would be. You can get 210 bhp from the Mini for about 500 quid worth of mods. And it's going to feel a lot faster than that sounds.

I'm guessing the Renault will just feel frantic all the time. Which could get v boring on a 60 mile commute...

[iloveboost]

Chuck21 said:

Thanks guys, I must admit I'm surprised, I thought PH members would be in favour of the Clio! The mini did feel more 'solid' but the Clio is stupidly quick for such a small car and the throttle response is a lot of fun compared to the slightly lazier supercharged Mini, at the same time the SC whine is lovely and has good low rev pick-up. The Clio is technically faster but in reality there's very little in it despite the near 20bhp difference (plus the Clio is lighter); I also suspect the Clio would be more fun on track but I'm happy to get opinions on that.

There's no 'better' car really just what's right for you. Here are my thoughts on them:
The Clio is a good car other than the non-reach adjustable steering wheel, dephaser/belt every five years (lots of £££) and worse interior. Better ride than the Mini, decent feel in both but heavier in the Mini (I think as this is from memory. On the Clio Cup it's probably better than the Minis as they've got added caster and stiffer suspension).

Similar grip levels (but as the Clio is lighter, in theory it should respond faster to driver inputs). In practice the Mini feels like it steers faster, and the steering feels a bit more precise.

The Clio has a bit more intake/engine noise, instead of supercharger whine, so I think it sounds better. Actually the steering pump can whine noticeably at parking speeds on these Minis. I think the Clio engine has a bit more character, and as it switches on the high rev cam timing at 5K-ish it has a small torque increase for a moment then it falls away to redline. The Mini engine sounds a bit gruff, but feels smooth like a lazy 2.5 V6, and has more torque/power past the 5k bump to redline.

I don't think the Mini interior is as well put together as it looks, much like the cars if you believe the surveys at the time it was new. The plastics are nicer than the Clios, but it's not as well made as German cars normally are. The seats aren't as comfy as the Clios, they feel firmer with less support.

The image of the Mini is arguably better, as it looks more special and characterful. Some people like the subtle look of the 182, and especially the 172. However the Mini was a lot more expensive when new so, as you know, you'll be looking at an older or higher mileage car for the same price. By most accounts it's slightly more expensive to fuel, and insure, the Mini over the Clio.

That hasn't helped at all has it?! Well you asked. I'd just buy whatever made you feel a bit happier on the test drive.

Edited by iloveboost on Thursday 19th February 18:22

[billy939]

iloveboost said:

Chuck21 said:

Thanks guys, I must admit I'm surprised, I thought PH members would be in favour of the Clio! The mini did feel more 'solid' but the Clio is stupidly quick for such a small car and the throttle response is a lot of fun compared to the slightly lazier supercharged Mini, at the same time the SC whine is lovely and has good low rev pick-up. The Clio is technically faster but in reality there's very little in it despite the near 20bhp difference (plus the Clio is lighter); I also suspect the Clio would be more fun on track but I'm happy to get opinions on that.

There's no 'better' car really just what's right for you. Here are my thoughts on them:
The Clio is a good car other than the non-reach adjustable steering wheel, dephaser/belt every four years (lots of £££) and worse interior. Better ride than the Mini, decent feel in both but heavier in the Mini (I think as this is from memory. On the Clio Cup it's probably better than the Minis as they've got added caster and stiffer suspension).

Similar grip levels (but as the Clio is lighter, in theory it should respond faster to driver inputs). In practice the Mini feels like it steers faster, and the steering feels a bit more precise.

The Clio has a bit more intake/engine noise, instead of supercharger whine, so I think it sounds better. Actually the steering pump can whine noticeably at parking speeds on these Minis. I think the Clio engine has a bit more character, and as it switches on the high rev cam timing at 5K-ish it has a small torque increase for a moment then it falls away to redline. The Mini engine sounds a bit gruff, but feels smooth like a lazy 2.5 V6, but has more torque past the midrange than the Clio.

I don't think the Mini interior is as well put together as it looks, much like the cars if you believe the surveys at the time it was new. The plastics are nicer than the Clios, but it's not as well made as German cars normally are. The seats aren't as comfy as the Clios, they feel firmer with less support.

The image of the Mini is arguably better, as it looks more special and characterful. Some people like the subtle look of the 182, and especially the 172. However the Mini was a lot more expensive when new so, as you know, you'll be looking at an older or higher mileage car for the same price. By most accounts it's slightly more expensive to fuel, and insure, the Mini over the Clio.

That hasn't helped at all has it?! Well you asked. I'd just buy whatever made you feel a bit happier on the test drive.

I've had both and tbh I agree with the above almost entirely.

The Mini will actually impress you dynamically more than you would have expected, but probably feel a let down in the quality department.
The Clio on the other hand is much nicer to live with than you would expect.

Fuel consumption is significantly worse in the Mini, 26-28mpg average isn't unrealistic, whereas 35mpg was my average over similar roads in the Clio 182. Insurance on the mini is a little cheaper, but general repairs more expensive. The cambelt on the Clio is a whole different matter.

I would say the Clio is the better all round car, a better daily driver with a nicer ride, good equipment and easy to live with. It is also very slightly quicker in a straight line and in the bends.

However the Mini Cooper S is more special, it sounds brilliant, steering is superb, it looks really different to anything else, and the grip they produce on the right tyres is insane! It would also be much cheaper and more responsive to modify and hand on heart.....is more fun to drive.

Both good fun cars for that price point so good luck choosing!

[jamesedwards]

I've got a 182 and other than the big bills it can throw up (and did - £600 dephaser pulley and cam belt) I really enjoy it. They are fairly fast, surprises bigger more expensive stuff and is fun, handles great too. mine is an FF (both cup packs - not cup) so has the exterior benefit of cup spoiler and slightly lower due to the cup suspension. MPG isn't great, though. struggle to get above 30, not even seen 31. OK interior, comfy seats, auto light, cruise control and A/C and mine doesn't rattle although you will hear people complain of poor French build quality on the interior, I think its just a stereotype to be honest as it seems fine (unless you're the kind of person who sits there stroking the plastic trim as you drive along. Thought not.). As others have said though, driving position isn't the best, sit on it rather than in it.

i looked at a Cooper S... Didn't like the front end or interior but that's personal preference so didn't take it any further.

I would recommend a 182 and glad I got one.

[RobM77]

The driving position would make the decision for me (Clio bad, MINI good), but that does depend on your propotions (I'm quite long in the leg).

[Sobored]

One of the reasons I had to get rid of the 182 was the driving position. It was doing my back in! I did like the 38mpg average I got in it though!

I'm actually thinking about getting a R53 cooper S, but the MPG figures I've seen around are making me think twice, awful for what it is.

[siwil1]

Just avoid sunroofs on both, Minis creak like hell (or mine did) and the clios Leak.

My son is looking at 182's at the moment and I think I would prefer the Clio over the Mini but both good cars

[CMPunkBITW]

I've had 3 182's and currently own a MINI Cooper S. The MINI is far superior in every way. The Clio feels very cheap, feels a lot older, and feels slower than the MCS. Go for the MINI imo.

[RobM77]

Sobored said:

One of the reasons I had to get rid of the 182 was the driving position. It was doing my back in! I did like the 38mpg average I got in it though!

I'm actually thinking about getting a R53 cooper S, but the MPG figures I've seen around are making me think twice, awful for what it is.

I was very keen on a Clio V6 a number of years ago, but after driving two I decided I just couldn't live with that driving position. More recently I had a 107 courtesy car for a few days and, whilst I though it was a really great little car, the strain on my shoulders from driving it caused me major problems with sports for two months afterwards. The moral of that story is that comfort should come first and foremost - it's really not worth giving yourself back and shoulder problems to drive a car, as good as the 182 is.

[billy939]

CMPunkBITW said:

I've had 3 182's and currently own a MINI Cooper S. The MINI is far superior in every way. The Clio feels very cheap, feels a lot older, and feels slower than the MCS. Go for the MINI imo.

Isn't yours the R56? Entirely different car, feels very different to drive. I would say that the supercharged factor gives the R53 Mini CS at least one benefit, either in ability to tune, low down power or simply the noise

[TurboHatchback]

I would absolutely recommend a Clio 182, mine was superb. The full fat with cup packs is the one to go for, they have all the luxuries you could need and the cup suspension is great. I can only assume the chap failing to manage 30mpg has a broken one or can't drive, mine averaged 40mpg (on super unleaded) which is fantastic for the performance on offer.

A couple of things to bear in mind:

• They are sensitive to having the right tyres on, a decent set of Michelins is £450-£500 but totally transforms the car
• You obviously know about cambelts already but getting belts + dephaser + water pump cost me £720
• Original exhausts are silly expensive and most will be at the end of their lives now. There are loads of aftermarket ones available of varying quality and sound, this is one of very few cars where a modified exhaust is actually a good thing (assuming it's a decent one).

[egor110]

Re the clio cambelt change.

Don't let this put you off, mine is at a specialist in glastonbury and cambelt,dephaser,waterpump and oil change is £610.