Step daughter trying to stop funeral & contesting will.
Discussion
Hi all,
It would be great if anyone can offer some advice on where to take this and thoughts on a possible outcome.
My partners father died a few days ago. He has 3 step daughters from a second marriage, this wife died around 14 years ago. He also has 3 blood daughters from his first marriage, one of which is my partner.
Her dad cancelled his first will about 5 years ago, in which he left an equal share to all 6 daughters, & the new will leaves £3k each to the 3 step daughters & the rest divided equally between his blood daughters. I was done properly in front of a solicitor & a witness, & was of sound mind.
Also, he paid for a double plot so he & his second wife could be buried together, & she is already in there. However, the step daughters have said they are going to stop his funeral as they don't want him with their mother.
The solicitors dealing with the will have advised my partner to contact another solicitor as they cannot handle or help with this situation.
As you might imagine, the threat of stopping the funeral is first & foremost in their minds, they want him buried & laid to rest without all this bickering.
I have no idea of their legal position, but surely the step sisters can't stop him being buried in his own plot that he paid for can they?
They have also said they will contest the will in court, & don't care if the legal battle consumes all his estate, as long as no-one else gets whatever is left. Apparently they want his original will reinstating, where all daughters get an equal share. Stopping the funeral & burial is not a bargaining tool either, they want him buried elsewhere even if they do get an equal share of the will.
Amazing how the snakes crawl out when money is smelt, but there it is. I guess I am asking if they stand a chance in getting both their demands.
It would be great if anyone can offer some advice on where to take this and thoughts on a possible outcome.
My partners father died a few days ago. He has 3 step daughters from a second marriage, this wife died around 14 years ago. He also has 3 blood daughters from his first marriage, one of which is my partner.
Her dad cancelled his first will about 5 years ago, in which he left an equal share to all 6 daughters, & the new will leaves £3k each to the 3 step daughters & the rest divided equally between his blood daughters. I was done properly in front of a solicitor & a witness, & was of sound mind.
Also, he paid for a double plot so he & his second wife could be buried together, & she is already in there. However, the step daughters have said they are going to stop his funeral as they don't want him with their mother.
The solicitors dealing with the will have advised my partner to contact another solicitor as they cannot handle or help with this situation.
As you might imagine, the threat of stopping the funeral is first & foremost in their minds, they want him buried & laid to rest without all this bickering.
I have no idea of their legal position, but surely the step sisters can't stop him being buried in his own plot that he paid for can they?
They have also said they will contest the will in court, & don't care if the legal battle consumes all his estate, as long as no-one else gets whatever is left. Apparently they want his original will reinstating, where all daughters get an equal share. Stopping the funeral & burial is not a bargaining tool either, they want him buried elsewhere even if they do get an equal share of the will.
Amazing how the snakes crawl out when money is smelt, but there it is. I guess I am asking if they stand a chance in getting both their demands.
Speedracer329 said:
They have also said they will contest the will in court, & don't care if the legal battle consumes all his estate, as long as no-one else gets whatever is left. Apparently they want his original will reinstating, where all daughters get an equal share. Stopping the funeral & burial is not a bargaining tool either, they want him buried elsewhere even if they do get an equal share of the will.
Wills can be a nasty business. For exactly this reason.For some reason, a few people presume that a family member's money is theirs and have some strange sense of entitlement.
Also, when this comes around, those people become most nasty.
However, reading between the lines their true motivation is clear. Effectively they are saying:
1) We dislike our stepfather so much we can't bear for his remains to be near our mother's remains.
2) However, we still like him enough to have his money. Oh yes, that £3000 ain't enough either.
You are right, it stinks. What I would recommend is that you get your own solicitor, and get that solicitor to put their views either individually, or as a collective to them directly.
People who shout and rant have a canny ability to become a lot more reasonable when they are speaking to a solicitor, and even more so when they are being told by their own solicitor that their demands aren't going to work in the real world. And when their solicitor asks them for a fee up front to take this on, they'll realise their position.
I can't give legal advice about your situation - that's for your solicitor to do. However, the above will leave you and your wife out of the ruckus they cause.
They are not named as executors in the will are they?
Who is named as executor(s) is an important point.
Was there anything written in the will regarding his funeral/burial wishes?
Family squabbles regarding inheritance/wills/funeral arrangements make me feel very fortunate that I'm an only child. My OH had some problems like this when her father died and I felt so sorry for her and the family that they couldn't all just sit down and sort it all out like grown-ups.
I am not an expert, but I think trying to get an old will reinstated is going to be a complete waste of time and money. Except for the solicitors, of course.
Was there anything written in the will regarding his funeral/burial wishes?
Family squabbles regarding inheritance/wills/funeral arrangements make me feel very fortunate that I'm an only child. My OH had some problems like this when her father died and I felt so sorry for her and the family that they couldn't all just sit down and sort it all out like grown-ups.
I am not an expert, but I think trying to get an old will reinstated is going to be a complete waste of time and money. Except for the solicitors, of course.
randlemarcus said:
What happened to their mother's cash? I'd assume it went directly to them, with a smaller/nominal bequest to your partner, and not all to your Father-in-Law? If the former, crack on, if the latter, have a think about that.
My thoughts exactly.Where did the step daughters mothers estate go and what happened just 5 years ago for him to effectively write them out?
On the face of your explanation it doesnt sound as if there is much to launch any challenge.
I'm not sure how they go about challenging the will, but there are few ways to overturn it and they will have to bear the cost (not the estate).
I assume the executor(s) will hear of any challenge once they apply for probate, but as said already it's probably just bluster.
As for the plot, if it's paid for and his desired wish they wont be able to do anything about it.
I'm not sure how they go about challenging the will, but there are few ways to overturn it and they will have to bear the cost (not the estate).
I assume the executor(s) will hear of any challenge once they apply for probate, but as said already it's probably just bluster.
As for the plot, if it's paid for and his desired wish they wont be able to do anything about it.
the new will should and will state that any wills made before it are superseded by this new will. Legally, there is no way the old will can be used. if they try and contest it, they will lose and it will be them that has to pay, not the estate.
Who are the executors, this is really important, even now. They have to make the funeral arrangements. If the sisters try and stop the funeral it is a case for the police to intervene as it disturbing the peace. Call the police non emergency line asap and give them a heads up of their intentions. They have a duty of care to prevent crime, and if they are made aware of this then they will be ready if anything arises.
As for distributing the assets. It will take a long time for that to be sorted. All the assets need to be realised and then the IHT calculated and paid before probate is granted.
I am executor on my grandmothers will purely because i have an errant uncle which nobody in my family likes or trusts - originally he was the only executor but my grandmother made a new will before she passed adding me as another executor because the rest of the family felt very uncomfortable as it was. A year on and we are still battling out.
I have recruited a solicitor to handle everything now at the cost of the estate and with the beneficiaries wishes
Who are the executors, this is really important, even now. They have to make the funeral arrangements. If the sisters try and stop the funeral it is a case for the police to intervene as it disturbing the peace. Call the police non emergency line asap and give them a heads up of their intentions. They have a duty of care to prevent crime, and if they are made aware of this then they will be ready if anything arises.
As for distributing the assets. It will take a long time for that to be sorted. All the assets need to be realised and then the IHT calculated and paid before probate is granted.
I am executor on my grandmothers will purely because i have an errant uncle which nobody in my family likes or trusts - originally he was the only executor but my grandmother made a new will before she passed adding me as another executor because the rest of the family felt very uncomfortable as it was. A year on and we are still battling out.
I have recruited a solicitor to handle everything now at the cost of the estate and with the beneficiaries wishes
JustinP1 said:
However, reading between the lines their true motivation is clear. Effectively they are saying:
1) We dislike our stepfather so much we can't bear for his remains to be near our mother's remains.
2) However, we still like him enough to have his money. Oh yes, that £3000 ain't enough either.
Delightful people, aren't they?1) We dislike our stepfather so much we can't bear for his remains to be near our mother's remains.
2) However, we still like him enough to have his money. Oh yes, that £3000 ain't enough either.
Short of turning up in the flesh and having a stroppy, I wonder if there's anything they could ACTUALLY do to stop the funeral? If it's a joint plot with their mother, are they named on the paperwork for it? Afterwards, they could certainly wage a sort of guerilla vandalism campaign on the grave and headstone - is it worth the hassle?
How strong were his feelings in life on what happened to his body? Could cremation and low-key sprinkling of the ashes on the grave be a compromise?
Ok, thanks all, & to answer some of your responses, when the step daughters mother died she was still married to my partners father, so the estate went to him. The reason the will was changed 5 years ago was because the step daughters stopped all contact to their step father. He was disabled & it was apparently too much of an effort to see him or help in any way. He didn't want to leave anything to the step daughters but was advised by his solicitor to leave them something, which is why he has left them £3k each. We think they received around £17k between them at their mothers death.
His wishes for the funeral/burial was put into the new will.
The new will has only his blood daughters as executors.
His wishes for the funeral/burial was put into the new will.
The new will has only his blood daughters as executors.
TooMany2cvs said:
JustinP1 said:
However, reading between the lines their true motivation is clear. Effectively they are saying:
1) We dislike our stepfather so much we can't bear for his remains to be near our mother's remains.
2) However, we still like him enough to have his money. Oh yes, that £3000 ain't enough either.
Delightful people, aren't they?1) We dislike our stepfather so much we can't bear for his remains to be near our mother's remains.
2) However, we still like him enough to have his money. Oh yes, that £3000 ain't enough either.
Short of turning up in the flesh and having a stroppy, I wonder if there's anything they could ACTUALLY do to stop the funeral? If it's a joint plot with their mother, are they named on the paperwork for it? Afterwards, they could certainly wage a sort of guerilla vandalism campaign on the grave and headstone - is it worth the hassle?
How strong were his feelings in life on what happened to his body? Could cremation and low-key sprinkling of the ashes on the grave be a compromise?
How would you feel if your mothers estate had been passed onto your stepfather who then decided almost 10 years after her death to effectively write you out. I know id be pretty annoyed and might conclude that his kids had a hand in the decision. Im not suggesting thats what happened but i wouldnt be surprised if thats the conclusion they came to.
TooMany2cvs said:
JustinP1 said:
However, reading between the lines their true motivation is clear. Effectively they are saying:
1) We dislike our stepfather so much we can't bear for his remains to be near our mother's remains.
2) However, we still like him enough to have his money. Oh yes, that £3000 ain't enough either.
Delightful people, aren't they?1) We dislike our stepfather so much we can't bear for his remains to be near our mother's remains.
2) However, we still like him enough to have his money. Oh yes, that £3000 ain't enough either.
Short of turning up in the flesh and having a stroppy, I wonder if there's anything they could ACTUALLY do to stop the funeral? If it's a joint plot with their mother, are they named on the paperwork for it? Afterwards, they could certainly wage a sort of guerilla vandalism campaign on the grave and headstone - is it worth the hassle?
How strong were his feelings in life on what happened to his body? Could cremation and low-key sprinkling of the ashes on the grave be a compromise?
From experience, a lot of people bleat and threaten, but when it comes to dealing with the matter face to face, then they become rather more sheepish.
This comes down to 'what are they going to do about it'.
Simply because they are named on the will to receive cash, they have about as much say over the burial plans and execution of the will as the World Wildlife Fund would if the deceased left them £3000. That's bugger all.
There's nothing they can do about it. And whilst they can rant and threaten, they won't be able to make any kind of legal challenge without a solicitor, and that solicitor will tell them not to be silly, and hold out his hand for £200.
The reality is that while the step-daughters will have to put their hands into their own pockets to pay solicitors, they are paying solicitors to fight a very difficult, and highly likely hopeless case. One which would likely cost much less to defend because the burden of proof will be on the step-daughters to try to prove some kind of wrongdoing. In any case that cost to defend would come from the estate, and deductible from inheritance tax.
I have to say that this sounds very much like a dog who wants to bark as loud as possible to hide the fact that it has no teeth.
barryrs said:
How would you feel if your mothers estate had been passed onto your stepfather who then decided almost 10 years after her death to effectively write you out. I know id be pretty annoyed and might conclude that his kids had a hand in the decision. Im not suggesting thats what happened but i wouldnt be surprised if thats the conclusion they came to.
I'm sure it is, and - yes - I would be too. But, then, I'm not the kind of person who would ignore a disabled elderly family member, no matter how distant or close, for years and then have some sense of entitlement.But legally speaking, it's irrelevant. It ceased to be their mother's money when she died and left it to their stepfather.
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 9th February 14:22
TooMany2cvs said:
barryrs said:
How would you feel if your mothers estate had been passed onto your stepfather who then decided almost 10 years after her death to effectively write you out. I know id be pretty annoyed and might conclude that his kids had a hand in the decision. Im not suggesting thats what happened but i wouldnt be surprised if thats the conclusion they came to.
I'm sure it is, and - yes - I would be too.But legally speaking, it's irrelevant. It ceased to be their mother's money when she died and left it to their stepfather.
However i dont think its necessarily fair for the OP's other half to treat her stepsisters in such away. I wonder how much time they would have spent with the stepmother had their farther passed away before her.
Taking a step back and actually taking to each other would probably smooth the mess out unless the battle lines have already been drawn.
Cant see their objection he bought the plot.
I think the real issue is they dont get the money they had banked on.
I am dreading my mum dying for the obvious reason but my mother has re-married and her husband has 3 kids. My mums estate stems from my dad money who did 11 years ago.
Her husband isn't wealthy but I have been told that since he has done some handy work on her buy to let properties they will now be equally divided between his kids and my sister and I. We arent talking full refurbishments just repair a door or window handle.
I dont get a beean if their mum dies I dont see why they should get anything when mine dies.
I think the real issue is they dont get the money they had banked on.
I am dreading my mum dying for the obvious reason but my mother has re-married and her husband has 3 kids. My mums estate stems from my dad money who did 11 years ago.
Her husband isn't wealthy but I have been told that since he has done some handy work on her buy to let properties they will now be equally divided between his kids and my sister and I. We arent talking full refurbishments just repair a door or window handle.
I dont get a beean if their mum dies I dont see why they should get anything when mine dies.
Leaving aside the issue of stopping the funeral, which is largely irrelevant to the issue of the estate, there is provision for children of a deceased to make an application that the will does make adequate provision for them.
This does not question the validity of the will, only the distribution of assets.
Potential applicants would include stepchildren as the right extends to "any person (not being a child of the deceased) who, in the case of any marriage to which the deceased was at any time a party, was treated by the deceased as a child of the family in relation to that marriage"
The origin of the funds would be a relevant point that the court would take into account so the stepchildren may have grounds to challenge their share.
Have a look at the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 for details - and then prepare for a battle, sadly.
This does not question the validity of the will, only the distribution of assets.
Potential applicants would include stepchildren as the right extends to "any person (not being a child of the deceased) who, in the case of any marriage to which the deceased was at any time a party, was treated by the deceased as a child of the family in relation to that marriage"
The origin of the funds would be a relevant point that the court would take into account so the stepchildren may have grounds to challenge their share.
Have a look at the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 for details - and then prepare for a battle, sadly.
barryrs said:
How would you feel if your mothers estate had been passed onto your stepfather who then decided almost 10 years after her death to effectively write you out. I know id be pretty annoyed and might conclude that his kids had a hand in the decision. Im not suggesting thats what happened but i wouldnt be surprised if thats the conclusion they came to.
The majority of my father's estate went to his new wife who he'd known three years.I was the executor of the will and executed it happily. To give you some idea of the split - my 'step-mother' got a mortgage-free house. In comparison, myself and my siblings got enough for me to change the central heating boiler, and go on holiday.
The odd person has hinted on 'fairness' to me over the years. My response is that I am genuinely not bitter in any way shape or form. My Dad's money was his, and his alone, and his to decide whether he gives it to someone else, in life, or death.
That house belongs to my step-mother now, and as she lives abroad, we've not seen her in 5 years. We were never close.
I can honestly say that until your post above I have not thought of the scenario of what happens when my step-mum dies. One thing I can say is that I don't for one second think that I have some kind of pseudo-ownership over her house.
It was my Dad's money, it's now my step-mum's money. I'm not expecting any of that at any time in the future.
I should add that this was 5 years ago, so would be rather more raw than the OP's 14 years. If the step-daughters have a different moral view, then that says something about them as people.
nitrodave said:
the new will should and will state that any wills made before it are superseded by this new will. Legally, there is no way the old will can be used. if they try and contest it, they will lose and it will be them that has to pay, not the estate.
Who are the executors, this is really important, even now. They have to make the funeral arrangements. If the sisters try and stop the funeral it is a case for the police to intervene as it disturbing the peace. Call the police non emergency line asap and give them a heads up of their intentions. They have a duty of care to prevent crime, and if they are made aware of this then they will be ready if anything arises.
As for distributing the assets. It will take a long time for that to be sorted. All the assets need to be realised and then the IHT calculated and paid before probate is granted.
I am executor on my grandmothers will purely because i have an errant uncle which nobody in my family likes or trusts - originally he was the only executor but my grandmother made a new will before she passed adding me as another executor because the rest of the family felt very uncomfortable as it was. A year on and we are still battling out.
I have recruited a solicitor to handle everything now at the cost of the estate and with the beneficiaries wishes
As said above, a new will supersedes all previous wills if drawn up by a solicitor/will writer. I'm not an expert but I recently had new will drawn up and that is made explicitly clear on the first page. Who are the executors, this is really important, even now. They have to make the funeral arrangements. If the sisters try and stop the funeral it is a case for the police to intervene as it disturbing the peace. Call the police non emergency line asap and give them a heads up of their intentions. They have a duty of care to prevent crime, and if they are made aware of this then they will be ready if anything arises.
As for distributing the assets. It will take a long time for that to be sorted. All the assets need to be realised and then the IHT calculated and paid before probate is granted.
I am executor on my grandmothers will purely because i have an errant uncle which nobody in my family likes or trusts - originally he was the only executor but my grandmother made a new will before she passed adding me as another executor because the rest of the family felt very uncomfortable as it was. A year on and we are still battling out.
I have recruited a solicitor to handle everything now at the cost of the estate and with the beneficiaries wishes
If you google the grounds for contesting a will they are very clear and very limited in scope. From what the OP has written it sounds like they don't have any say in it but seek legal advice to be sure.
I have also been a beneficiary to both my mother and my aunts wills over the course of the last year. My aunt was the second wife of her husband, he left his previous wife and grown up children for her and they built a new life together. When he died 25 years ago he left everything to my aunt then when she died last year she left everything to me and my brother and sisters. Her husbands son got to hear of her death and started to try and make a few waves. We reckon he sought advice on contesting but that advice must have been to stay away as we never heard from him again.
The right thing would probably be to try and extract a fair figure based on the amount the wife brought into the marriage, shared uplift in value of things like houses, minus the money her daughters got from her estate first time round. Its seems right that they chose to walk away from him being reflected in the fact they get nowt of his, but morally wrong to punish them for that by withholding assets that their mother would have passed on had the marriage not happened. But that's a long and complicated conversation, that won't be helped by their stance on the funeral. It needs adults to sit and go through figures calmly. If those adults need to be expensive solicitors, then you know the effect that will have on the residue of the estate.
jbsportstech said:
Cant see their objection he bought the plot.
I think the real issue is they dont get the money they had banked on.
I am dreading my mum dying for the obvious reason but my mother has re-married and her husband has 3 kids. My mums estate stems from my dads money who died 11 years ago.
Her husband isn't wealthy but I have been told that since he has done some handy work on her buy to let properties they will now be equally divided between his kids and my sister and I. We aren't talking full refurbishments just repair a door or window handle. Whilst the house my dad bought will be left to me and my sister along with my mums money, her husband if he out lives my mum will be able to live in my dads house for as long as he wants should he out live my mother.
I dont get a bean if their mum dies I dont see why they should get anything when mine dies.
I think the real issue is they dont get the money they had banked on.
I am dreading my mum dying for the obvious reason but my mother has re-married and her husband has 3 kids. My mums estate stems from my dads money who died 11 years ago.
Her husband isn't wealthy but I have been told that since he has done some handy work on her buy to let properties they will now be equally divided between his kids and my sister and I. We aren't talking full refurbishments just repair a door or window handle. Whilst the house my dad bought will be left to me and my sister along with my mums money, her husband if he out lives my mum will be able to live in my dads house for as long as he wants should he out live my mother.
I dont get a bean if their mum dies I dont see why they should get anything when mine dies.
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