What car (sorry) - cost/space/refinement compromise, £3-5k
Discussion
Hello all,
Firstly, sorry for yet another 'what car', and a fairly boring one at that. Most of the time the responses to these seem very well informed on here however, so I wouldn't be asking if I didn't appreciate PH's input
I'm considering replacing my current 2005 Mondeo 2.0 petrol ghia manual. I very much like it as a car but having spent a weekend recently in a Jaguar XF-S I've started seeing the limits of the Mondeo, namely the manual box and relatively high engine noise levels in the cab. Of course a nice diesel XF sportbrake would be ideal, but I'm about £30k short
This will purely be a mile-munching workhorse, there's an MX5 and a motorbike for funsies. Most journeys are dual carriageway A roads and motorways with occasional stop-start traffic on a half-hour each way daily commute and at least one hour-plus motorway journey a week outside of this. There's occasional local town driving but this is less of an influence on both car size or economy. I do at least 20k miles a year in this car, which of course is the significant influence on size and economy.
Priorities, in rough order of importance:
Comfort -
cruise control
decent ride/motorway stability
seats
auto gearbox
stereo
cabin noise levels
interior quality/appeal
Cost of ownership -
reliability
good initial purchase value
'relatively' decent fuel economy
tax, insurance, service costs etc.
Performance/function -
boot practicality (not necessarily outright space)
seats 2 sublimely, 4 comfortably
decent enough poke
decent enough steer
Nice to haves -
sat nav
heated seats
newer
under 80k-ish miles
The current mondeo is going to be my benchmark car in all respects. I'm seeing an average of about 35-38mpg from it with my current driving pattern, and would like similar-ish from the new car, with flexibility dependent upon performance. Anything under about 27 combined or low 30s motorway is a no-no, it's just not viable for 20k miles. Conversely, I'm happy to cough up a wad of MPG if it means dodging big diesel bills, but I'm not averse to the concept of diesel.
My initial thoughts:
Volvo V50 T5 auto - Pros: Lots of oomph in a wafty way, pleasantly compact but with big enough boot space for my needs and estate loading practicality. Seem fairly good value, fuel looks reasonable at best but still acceptable, and internet anecdotal evidence suggests better than equivalent focus ST. Cons: based on a car size class one step down from Mondeo, with the potential loss of refinement to suit. No idea on cabin noise levels, A pillar wind noise seems to be mentioned a bit. Supposedly uninspiring steer - don't know if that means 'soft' or just plain bad.
Volvo S40 T5 auto - as above, worse practicality-wise but seem cheaper to buy.
Mk2 focus 2.0 ghia petrol auto - a scaled down version of what I have but with an autobox, hopefully auto performance/mpg sacrifice offset by reduced weight. Refinement risk due to smaller size. Great value. Not particularly inspiring interior.
Rover 75 touring diesel auto - about as comfortable as I'm likely to get, acres of space, cheap and old school BMW diesel reliability. Limited choice, friends will rip the piss constantly. Slow, and only 'good' MPG given how slow.
Mk2 octavia VRS petrol - will go well and good fuel economy to match, still very practical space-wise (hatch or estate). Cons - self-stirring cogs, no experience of refinement, crap stereo. Interior is a little bargain basement.
Other considerations are E39s, e46s, MK4 mondeos and B5.5 passats but they tend to either push themselves out with high mileage diesely risks or general age.
NO vauxhalls.
If anyone has any suggestions, recommendations and experiences they'd be happy to share it would be most appreciated. I think the V50's winning but I have an open mind
Firstly, sorry for yet another 'what car', and a fairly boring one at that. Most of the time the responses to these seem very well informed on here however, so I wouldn't be asking if I didn't appreciate PH's input
I'm considering replacing my current 2005 Mondeo 2.0 petrol ghia manual. I very much like it as a car but having spent a weekend recently in a Jaguar XF-S I've started seeing the limits of the Mondeo, namely the manual box and relatively high engine noise levels in the cab. Of course a nice diesel XF sportbrake would be ideal, but I'm about £30k short
This will purely be a mile-munching workhorse, there's an MX5 and a motorbike for funsies. Most journeys are dual carriageway A roads and motorways with occasional stop-start traffic on a half-hour each way daily commute and at least one hour-plus motorway journey a week outside of this. There's occasional local town driving but this is less of an influence on both car size or economy. I do at least 20k miles a year in this car, which of course is the significant influence on size and economy.
Priorities, in rough order of importance:
Comfort -
cruise control
decent ride/motorway stability
seats
auto gearbox
stereo
cabin noise levels
interior quality/appeal
Cost of ownership -
reliability
good initial purchase value
'relatively' decent fuel economy
tax, insurance, service costs etc.
Performance/function -
boot practicality (not necessarily outright space)
seats 2 sublimely, 4 comfortably
decent enough poke
decent enough steer
Nice to haves -
sat nav
heated seats
newer
under 80k-ish miles
The current mondeo is going to be my benchmark car in all respects. I'm seeing an average of about 35-38mpg from it with my current driving pattern, and would like similar-ish from the new car, with flexibility dependent upon performance. Anything under about 27 combined or low 30s motorway is a no-no, it's just not viable for 20k miles. Conversely, I'm happy to cough up a wad of MPG if it means dodging big diesel bills, but I'm not averse to the concept of diesel.
My initial thoughts:
Volvo V50 T5 auto - Pros: Lots of oomph in a wafty way, pleasantly compact but with big enough boot space for my needs and estate loading practicality. Seem fairly good value, fuel looks reasonable at best but still acceptable, and internet anecdotal evidence suggests better than equivalent focus ST. Cons: based on a car size class one step down from Mondeo, with the potential loss of refinement to suit. No idea on cabin noise levels, A pillar wind noise seems to be mentioned a bit. Supposedly uninspiring steer - don't know if that means 'soft' or just plain bad.
Volvo S40 T5 auto - as above, worse practicality-wise but seem cheaper to buy.
Mk2 focus 2.0 ghia petrol auto - a scaled down version of what I have but with an autobox, hopefully auto performance/mpg sacrifice offset by reduced weight. Refinement risk due to smaller size. Great value. Not particularly inspiring interior.
Rover 75 touring diesel auto - about as comfortable as I'm likely to get, acres of space, cheap and old school BMW diesel reliability. Limited choice, friends will rip the piss constantly. Slow, and only 'good' MPG given how slow.
Mk2 octavia VRS petrol - will go well and good fuel economy to match, still very practical space-wise (hatch or estate). Cons - self-stirring cogs, no experience of refinement, crap stereo. Interior is a little bargain basement.
Other considerations are E39s, e46s, MK4 mondeos and B5.5 passats but they tend to either push themselves out with high mileage diesely risks or general age.
NO vauxhalls.
If anyone has any suggestions, recommendations and experiences they'd be happy to share it would be most appreciated. I think the V50's winning but I have an open mind
my vote goes to an S60 D5
you will not find a more comfortable or effortless motorway muncher, the stereo's are amazing and SE spec is leather with heated seats normally.
Dont know too much about the auto's but my 185bhp manual version went into 6th at 38mph and from that point may aswell be auto!
average 42mpgish with closer (but never get there) to 50 on a 70mph run
you will not find a more comfortable or effortless motorway muncher, the stereo's are amazing and SE spec is leather with heated seats normally.
Dont know too much about the auto's but my 185bhp manual version went into 6th at 38mph and from that point may aswell be auto!
average 42mpgish with closer (but never get there) to 50 on a 70mph run
The main things putting me off s60s/v70s etc. were the bland family dash but I'll take another look. I've heard nothing but good words about ride comfort and I'll bet they're peanuts.
No alfas alas, the selespeed is woefully unreliable and I wouldn't trust the rest of the car. I keep wanting to like 9-3s too but I'm aware of the vectra underneath and I remember the stereo in a friend's car being very poor given the price. Still, for the sake of being thorough I'll look again - they're attractive at least.
Thank you for the replies so far
No alfas alas, the selespeed is woefully unreliable and I wouldn't trust the rest of the car. I keep wanting to like 9-3s too but I'm aware of the vectra underneath and I remember the stereo in a friend's car being very poor given the price. Still, for the sake of being thorough I'll look again - they're attractive at least.
Thank you for the replies so far
luckystrike said:
The main things putting me off s60s/v70s etc. were the bland family dash but I'll take another look. I've heard nothing but good words about ride comfort and I'll bet they're peanuts.
I found black interiors on them very depressing, my cream leather version was a much more pleasant place to beandburg said:
my vote goes to an S60 D5
S60 would be very tight on rear legroom for four people - other than that it's ideal.Can't see what a Passat would have over your Mondeo other than more economy from the PD diesel, but personally I think the seats are more comfortable than the Mondeo. Superb mile muncher though, with plenty of space for four.
You could discount the Rover 75 for being old, like the E46, Passat b5.5 e.t.c. Does it matter about your friends opinions if it does the job perfectly? Never driven one myself.
Octavia VRS is known for road noise from the rear, you could possibly sort this out with some soundproofing in the boot and rear wheel arches.
Volvo V50, S40 is a bit cramped inside.
Volvo V70 ticks most of your boxes.
Yeah, the cream and leather oatmeal interiors look a bit more friendly.
The Rover's 'old' yes but that's not a specific problem per se - it's more a case of newer stuff tends to be better for NVH and tends to have more toys as standard, while hopefully dodging age-related bushing/weather seal problems etc. Friend's opinions aren't critical by any means but you know how it is. After a 4 hour drive the last thing you need is some comedian going on about 'grandad's car' or some other b
ks. 100% right about the seats though, the Mondeo is adequate in the front in that there's no odd pains after a journey but the backs are much nicer perversely and they're not the best chairs around. They're one of the main things I'd be hoping to improve on. You're right about the Passat too, only appeal would be PD and wagon body. Everything else is equivalent at best (if not worse). They're only in there if the 'right' car came along at a good price rather than a frontrunner.
Looking at the Volvos the S60s are significantly cheaper than the V70s like-for-like. I'd love a V70 but they're at the upper end of the price bracket whereas S60s and V50s seem to be more for the money, and given their size and the relatively large diesels they're not stellar on economy either (although clearly better than T5s). The room and comfort would be second-to-none though, so it's firmly on the list.
I'm still interested to hear of anyone's experiences with the V50 T5s as a long distance high mile commuter if anyone's out there - maybe I'm trying to justify a Focus ST in a waistcoat to myself, over 200 horses is appealing.
corvus said:
S60 would be very tight on rear legroom for four people - other than that it's ideal.
Can't see what a Passat would have over your Mondeo other than more economy from the PD diesel, but personally I think the seats are more comfortable than the Mondeo. Superb mile muncher though, with plenty of space for four.
You could discount the Rover 75 for being old, like the E46, Passat b5.5 e.t.c. Does it matter about your friends opinions if it does the job perfectly? Never driven one myself.
Octavia VRS is known for road noise from the rear, you could possibly sort this out with some soundproofing in the boot and rear wheel arches.
Volvo V50, S40 is a bit cramped inside.
Volvo V70 ticks most of your boxes.
I think rear leg room is a little relative in this case - it'll normally just be one or two people in it, but it would need to be able to have 2 more people in it for a relative distance (an hour, say) who won't wind me up by kneeing me in the back or whinging. The extra load space when the seats are folded is useful too. I think I've been a little spoiled with the Mondeo in that sense as the rear legroom is truly massive. Having looked at pics of V50s and seen them driving about They'd probably do the trick - a 'snug' cockpit's not a huge problem, it's the reduction in load space and road manners that come along with it which are the main driving factors of size.Can't see what a Passat would have over your Mondeo other than more economy from the PD diesel, but personally I think the seats are more comfortable than the Mondeo. Superb mile muncher though, with plenty of space for four.
You could discount the Rover 75 for being old, like the E46, Passat b5.5 e.t.c. Does it matter about your friends opinions if it does the job perfectly? Never driven one myself.
Octavia VRS is known for road noise from the rear, you could possibly sort this out with some soundproofing in the boot and rear wheel arches.
Volvo V50, S40 is a bit cramped inside.
Volvo V70 ticks most of your boxes.
The Rover's 'old' yes but that's not a specific problem per se - it's more a case of newer stuff tends to be better for NVH and tends to have more toys as standard, while hopefully dodging age-related bushing/weather seal problems etc. Friend's opinions aren't critical by any means but you know how it is. After a 4 hour drive the last thing you need is some comedian going on about 'grandad's car' or some other b
ks. 100% right about the seats though, the Mondeo is adequate in the front in that there's no odd pains after a journey but the backs are much nicer perversely and they're not the best chairs around. They're one of the main things I'd be hoping to improve on. You're right about the Passat too, only appeal would be PD and wagon body. Everything else is equivalent at best (if not worse). They're only in there if the 'right' car came along at a good price rather than a frontrunner.Looking at the Volvos the S60s are significantly cheaper than the V70s like-for-like. I'd love a V70 but they're at the upper end of the price bracket whereas S60s and V50s seem to be more for the money, and given their size and the relatively large diesels they're not stellar on economy either (although clearly better than T5s). The room and comfort would be second-to-none though, so it's firmly on the list.
I'm still interested to hear of anyone's experiences with the V50 T5s as a long distance high mile commuter if anyone's out there - maybe I'm trying to justify a Focus ST in a waistcoat to myself, over 200 horses is appealing.
luckystrike said:
The main things putting me off s60s/v70s etc. were the bland family dash but I'll take another look. I've heard nothing but good words about ride comfort and I'll bet they're peanuts.
No alfas alas, the selespeed is woefully unreliable and I wouldn't trust the rest of the car. I keep wanting to like 9-3s too but I'm aware of the vectra underneath and I remember the stereo in a friend's car being very poor given the price. Still, for the sake of being thorough I'll look again - they're attractive at least.
Thank you for the replies so far
As far as the Saab is concerned, it started as a vectra underneath, but there are subtle changes to elements of the car. I drove both back to back to compare prior to buying my old 9-3, and the Saab was much better. The seats are also sublime and that makes a hell of a difference for long distance driving!No alfas alas, the selespeed is woefully unreliable and I wouldn't trust the rest of the car. I keep wanting to like 9-3s too but I'm aware of the vectra underneath and I remember the stereo in a friend's car being very poor given the price. Still, for the sake of being thorough I'll look again - they're attractive at least.
Thank you for the replies so far
My first thought was Passat as they're often unloved and my second thought reading the thread was Volvo all the way.
Have you considered the Passat W8? Rare enough that no one really knows what they're worth, or if they're worth anything, immaculate examples can go for not much (there was one " spotted" a while back), fuel economy might not be good enough.
I'd go for a Volvo if it were me.
Have you considered the Passat W8? Rare enough that no one really knows what they're worth, or if they're worth anything, immaculate examples can go for not much (there was one " spotted" a while back), fuel economy might not be good enough.
I'd go for a Volvo if it were me.
Can't comment on the T5 specifically but I do 120 miles per day in a 1.6d S40 and its ideal for the job IMO.
Very good seats, good refinement even with the diesel engine and well equipped.
The T5 will have everything you need with maybe the nav an exception.
Mine is a little crashy over broken surfaces but its not as bad as the E36 which it replaced.
According to Honest JOhn real world MPG is about 29.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/volvo/v50-2004...
OMG 5000 posts!
Very good seats, good refinement even with the diesel engine and well equipped.
The T5 will have everything you need with maybe the nav an exception.
Mine is a little crashy over broken surfaces but its not as bad as the E36 which it replaced.
According to Honest JOhn real world MPG is about 29.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/volvo/v50-2004...
OMG 5000 posts!
Edited by GreatGranny on Thursday 12th February 11:32
Thank you for the reply, it's much appreciated. Do you mind if I ask what e36 you had and if it was standards? My 328i sport was refined enough for distance (probably helped by the glorious engine in fairness) so if S40/V50s are better that's a good sign.
Oh yes, how's the handling? Soft wafty bad or Peugeot 206 with knackered wheel bearings bad?
Oh yes, how's the handling? Soft wafty bad or Peugeot 206 with knackered wheel bearings bad?
luckystrike said:
Thank you for the reply, it's much appreciated. Do you mind if I ask what e36 you had and if it was standards? My 328i sport was refined enough for distance (probably helped by the glorious engine in fairness) so if S40/V50s are better that's a good sign.
Oh yes, how's the handling? Soft wafty bad or Peugeot 206 with knackered wheel bearings bad?
I had the 318is.Oh yes, how's the handling? Soft wafty bad or Peugeot 206 with knackered wheel bearings bad?
Gearing was a little short but it did well for 2 years doing that commute.
It had full leather and climate so was a nice place to be.
The suspension may have been a little tired which could have been why it felt crashy.
Great car and never let me down.
Handling on the S40 after the E36 not as good. Good grip but steering not as direct.
Overall a good car. Had it for over 2 years now and its been 100% reliable up to a few weeks ago when the clutch gave up. Its a 59 reg on 79k miles.
Hope this helps.
Edited by GreatGranny on Thursday 12th February 12:07
I would say the MK7 accord;
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Hard to find an auto diesel cheaply but most non base-spec ones have heated seats + cruise, had one for a while in petrol form and really refined/comfortable/stable, mileage would never be a concern on these either.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Hard to find an auto diesel cheaply but most non base-spec ones have heated seats + cruise, had one for a while in petrol form and really refined/comfortable/stable, mileage would never be a concern on these either.
Great feedback on the S60, gives a better sense of perspective. Thank you again.
The accord's an interesting proposal. What was the fuel like on your petrol, 2 or 2.4? It's a shame the wagon's proportions are off a bit and the saloon's boot is a bit awkward for loading as I love the interiors. They're worth a look certainly though.
The accord's an interesting proposal. What was the fuel like on your petrol, 2 or 2.4? It's a shame the wagon's proportions are off a bit and the saloon's boot is a bit awkward for loading as I love the interiors. They're worth a look certainly though.
ooo yea Accord is a good shout!
Had a 2.2 diesel estate for a couple of days, must have been a Mk8 I think, what a peaceful place to be!
Vague as anything, no feedback through any controls, no feel through your arse, but if you want comfort and refinement, it was superb in that respect.
It was "Executive" trim iirc, nice leather interior, everything well laid out and easy to use and best of all it dips the wing mirrors when you put it in reverse
Had a 2.2 diesel estate for a couple of days, must have been a Mk8 I think, what a peaceful place to be!
Vague as anything, no feedback through any controls, no feel through your arse, but if you want comfort and refinement, it was superb in that respect.
It was "Executive" trim iirc, nice leather interior, everything well laid out and easy to use and best of all it dips the wing mirrors when you put it in reverse
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff