Driver involvement vs rider involvement?

[PR36]

I like my cayman but I have to say cars will always be second best to bikes for me. Having raced bikes since I was a kid and only gotten into cars because my fear threshold and dislike of broken bones has increased as I got older I find myself getting a different enjoyment from cars, the tinkering, history, being able to enjoy it in winter, but it can never be a thrill for me. I have driven fast cars on track and it does very little for me. I have a 2010 fire blade in full super stock race trim and there is no feeling on earth like exiting Craner curves in 5th gear with your knee scraping the Tarmac and then shifting your body weight over and hitting the brakes and shifting down 2 gears for the old hairpin, awesome...but the reason for my post is just an observation. Funny how bikers in the forums never ever discuss 'feel', 'involvement', or the manifold other variations on interacting with a machine that drivers in this forum do, yet in a car you sit in a padded seat, unmoving and just pressing or turning controls, on a bike at real speed the interaction is on a totally different level, your body movements make a huge impact on steering, sitting forward or backwards significantly impacts weight distribution and in terms of connectedness my bike seat only has about 10mm of foam padding between my backside and the chassis. And of course I know that some won't like hearing it but it's hilarious to me my blade cost less than 10k to build and would make utter mincemeat of a gt4 round brands hatch!

Anyways sorry this isn't stitching related, I have no idea about future gt4/3 values and I'm writing this while I really should be stressing about bore scoring. Just ignore me.

[mollytherocker]

I have purposely avoided and ignored motorbikes all of my life. I know what would happen if I sampled one.

For my own sanity and safety, its cars for me.

I am not listening to you.....

[PorscheGT4]

I'll take a Ducati 1199 Superleggera, but I guess they are harder to get than the GT4 and just as expensive ...

PS I have done the bike thing , it's scary addictive and on todays roads bloody lucky to come out the other end alive.

[Nimerino]

I have a 2008 CBR-600RR as well as my cars. I love riding, but you can't possibly deploy the performance on the road. Since the same is not true to the same extent for the cars, I much prefer those. Mind you, I'm not a great rider.

[GT3cs]

I came into bikes from the other side . 100% car nut but in my youth but unable to afford anything particularly quick . So bikes were the obvious choice .. 170mph for £4k when 18 yrs old. As I've become more financially secure with age it culminated in a new 991 GT3 last year which for all it was a fantastic car , left me slightly underwhelmed at its performance . Great car but not the step I was expecting . Knowing GT3 's are not about power I tried a 991 turbo S last week and again left slightly disappointed with its performance !!!!!!

Your post has made me realise I've probably spoilt some of the experence of these cars as I'm expecting them to move to another level of performance and involvement over my old bikes , which they probably will never do.

I am still a 100 % car nut and have no interest in bikes / racing etc but do kind of wish I'd never experienced the 30 - 130mph acceleration of a Superbike , and the adrenalin of hanging on ...........

[Robbo66]

I did have an interest in bikes, but that quickly disappeared.

Colour coded leathers, colour coded helmet...colour coded plastercast. From what I have seen, the groups that pull up at the local mountain cafe seem to have downgraded from their Subaru's, and there's a good chance they will downgrade further to a wheel chair.

One of my best friends is a consultant orthopaedic surgeon, 10 minutes with him and you would sell your bike I can assure you.

[Schnellmann]

Robbo66 said:

One of my best friends is a consultant orthopaedic surgeon, 10 minutes with him and you would sell your bike I can assure you.

Strange comment. Not as if bikers don't know the risks they are running (or haven't had accidents themselves or know others that have been killed or seriously injured).

[Chr1sch]

mollytherocker said:

I have purposely avoided and ignored motorbikes all of my life. I know what would happen if I sampled one.

For my own sanity and safety, its cars for me.

I am not listening to you.....

Yep me too

[Chr1sch]

mollytherocker said:

I have purposely avoided and ignored motorbikes all of my life. I know what would happen if I sampled one.

For my own sanity and safety, its cars for me.

I am not listening to you.....

Yep me too

[Robbo66]

Schnellmann said:

Robbo66 said:

One of my best friends is a consultant orthopaedic surgeon, 10 minutes with him and you would sell your bike I can assure you.

Strange comment. Not as if bikers don't know the risks they are running (or haven't had accidents themselves or know others that have been killed or seriously injured).

That to me is even 'stranger', but can't argue that this is indeed sometimes the case.
Perhaps 10 minutes with their wives/girlfriends, parents or children then.

[SidewaysSi]

Closest in car terms is probably an aeroscreened Caterham. Not saying it wil be as visceral as a bike but no doubt a lot more so than a new Porsche.

[Schnellmann]

Understand completely where the OP is coming from. I love cars and driving but bikes are so much more involving and physical (in the sense that you are using your body to ride - of course driving can be tough, bumpy and uncomfortable but that is physical in a different sense). Used to love riding my 748 through an S bend near me - off the bike on side, almost wrestling the bike over, enjoy the stability in the first bend then throwing myself over the other side to change direction.

Acceleration very different when you have to try to keep the front wheel on the ground and avoid falling off the back!

I do think that bikers have the equivalent of feel and handling but they are not the same eg Ducati is very different feel than a Jap IL4 as not as easy to get Into a corner but feels more stable once over on its side.
Similarly big subjective differences between twins, triples and 4 cylinders (even though objectively they are similarly fast).

[Schnellmann]

Robbo66 said:

That to me is even 'stranger', but can't argue that this is indeed sometimes the case.
Perhaps 10 minutes with their wives/girlfriends, parents or children then.

Many bikers have given up exactly for that reason.

Riding is a bit like class A drugs - it is addictive and you do it despite the risks.

[Robbo66]

Schnellmann said:

Robbo66 said:

That to me is even 'stranger', but can't argue that this is indeed sometimes the case.
Perhaps 10 minutes with their wives/girlfriends, parents or children then.

Many bikers have given up exactly for that reason.

Riding is a bit like class A drugs - it is addictive and you do it despite the risks.

Yes, I understand that part, it's their risk ....but a shared responsibility however 'gung ho' they seem to think they are.

It's the immediate family that seem to be considered as 'collateral damage' should the worst happen, be it their fault of the tractor pulling onto the A Road without looking. I cannot understand that part.

[Russwhitehouse]

I had a bad smash on my habusa in 2012 which resulted in the bike being written off ( no one else involved) and me waking up in hospital. Not to be deterred, I bought a Ducati 1198, which was the best fun you can have with your clothes on and a very scary, grin inducing missile. However, after one close call too many, mainly with idiotic car drivers pulling out in front of me etc, I finally decided that my reaction times aren't what they used to be and hung up my leathers for good last year after after 34 years of riding. Bikes are fantastic addictive fun, but on today's roads and with the performance available, are best kept on the track. It's only a matter of time before you don't get away with it. Having committed to cars only and having lots of fun in the 911 and the Healey, I don't regret it or miss it. Get a track bike and enjoy the best of both worlds safely.

[pcn1]

I've had cars and bikes all my adult life.

Like them both for different reasons.

Hope to be driving and riding into my old age.

The End.

[PR36]

I would not have a bike on the road for the reasons mentioned, my bike is completely converted for track use. But the point of my thread was not to encourage moralising (people die in cars too...). The point was about the involvement a bike offers in comparison to a car. I would suspect many riders like myself who have gotten to a good standard of riding on a big 1000 sports bike would always feel let down by most high performance cars and would enjoy the car for different reasons.

[graemel]

I have not ridden a bike for must be five years. The standard of driving has declined around where I live dramatically over the last few years so I decided to hang my leathers up for good. I sold the TTS tuned Haybusa that I had. Did a few track days on it and the Superbike School. The Harley I have owned for 22 years now sits in my lounge as a piece of automotive art.
It is a very different visceral experience. But you can still get the adrenalin rush from a 911. Just needs to be old school so that you have to work hard at it to get the most out of it. That's why something like a 991 Turbo S, whilst a fabulous point and squirt machine would never do it for me.

[Schnellmann]

Robbo66 said:

Yes, I understand that part, it's their risk ....but a shared responsibility however 'gung ho' they seem to think they are.

It's the immediate family that seem to be considered as 'collateral damage' should the worst happen, be it their fault of the tractor pulling onto the A Road without looking. I cannot understand that part.

A fair point but one that could be applied to many other activities (such as motor car
racing up until the 1990s).

Biking covers a huge range of bikes and bikers.
I suspect you have in mind young men on litre bikes that are riding too quickly on the road. But there are also those enjoying bikes (on the road) more safely and keeping the high speed to track days. Riding is inherently more risky than driving but you can take steps to reduce those risks through training and self control (and choice of bike).

Part of the problem with bikes is their affordability.
If you could buy cars with the performance of a 458 for £5000 (without any of the electronic safety features) I suspect the car accident rate would go up.

IMO I think modern superbikes are no different from modern Supercars in that they are too fast and capable to be enjoyed on the road - which is why I have gone back to an early 911 - also green over white :-) and only have a small-capacity, naked bike.

[Vincefox]

Robbo66 said:

Schnellmann said:

Robbo66 said:

One of my best friends is a consultant orthopaedic surgeon, 10 minutes with him and you would sell your bike I can assure you.

Strange comment. Not as if bikers don't know the risks they are running (or haven't had accidents themselves or know others that have been killed or seriously injured).

That to me is even 'stranger', but can't argue that this is indeed sometimes the case.
Perhaps 10 minutes with their wives/girlfriends, parents or children then.

There's quite a few of us on here that are full of metal or even have bits missing from riding and still ride. It's a very personal decision imho. In answer to the involvement question, i prefer slightly older bikes (mk1 carbed blade, xr supermoto, etc) as the newest litre stuff doesnt have to be worked hard enough.

Edited by Vincefox on Thursday 12th February 09:26