Advice on dealing with insurance companies please.
Discussion
My e36 328 sport has just been rear ended by a nice female. My insurance company arranged for it to be taken away and the repair has estimated at £2700 for damage to the bumper, rear panel, boot floor and exhaust . They have written it off and have decided that it is worth £1200 at best because their book says so. While I appreciate that these might be difficult to accurately price due to rarity, differing condition and spec etc, looking at the adds a half decent one is at least £1k more than that. I have provided several examples ranging from £2300 to £4500.
The company in question says that they have also got 'an Independant accessor' who has valued it even lower and therefore that is their final offer.
How do I fight this further? Through no fault of my own I face the prospect of being left without my car and without sufficient funds to replace it.
The company in question says that they have also got 'an Independant accessor' who has valued it even lower and therefore that is their final offer.
How do I fight this further? Through no fault of my own I face the prospect of being left without my car and without sufficient funds to replace it.
I spoke to them, they said that they would follow the same 'industry values' and as such I would be very unlikely to be better off.
Mine have now refused to budge on the value despite being shown that they cost considerably to buy.
I contacted the Insurance Ombudsman who told me that the industry will only pay out according to their guide books, as such the offer is a good one. I spent a great deal of time arguing the point that, if all the cars for sale are in a certain price bracket, then surely this indicates their true value? Apparently not.
It seems that regardless of what a replacement is actually likely to cost, you are only entitled to whatever their little black books think the cars are worth.
I am now left considerably out of pocket and without a car because someone else has driven into me and admitted liability!
Why do we bother paying for insurance? If I had just banked the premiums over the years I would be much better off now. It's a good job I am a good law abiding citizen.
Mine have now refused to budge on the value despite being shown that they cost considerably to buy.
I contacted the Insurance Ombudsman who told me that the industry will only pay out according to their guide books, as such the offer is a good one. I spent a great deal of time arguing the point that, if all the cars for sale are in a certain price bracket, then surely this indicates their true value? Apparently not.
It seems that regardless of what a replacement is actually likely to cost, you are only entitled to whatever their little black books think the cars are worth.
I am now left considerably out of pocket and without a car because someone else has driven into me and admitted liability!
Why do we bother paying for insurance? If I had just banked the premiums over the years I would be much better off now. It's a good job I am a good law abiding citizen.
Not good news.
Only thing I can suggest is to buy it as is from the insurance company and get it repaired yourself.
It certainly won't cost £2700 which is a hugely inflated sumbecause its an insurance job.
Have a word with a local bodyshop. take photos if you have any and also the insurance quote if you have it. They should be able to give you a ballpark figure.
Not ideal but can't see any other way esecially if the Onbudsman won't fight for you.
Only thing I can suggest is to buy it as is from the insurance company and get it repaired yourself.
It certainly won't cost £2700 which is a hugely inflated sumbecause its an insurance job.
Have a word with a local bodyshop. take photos if you have any and also the insurance quote if you have it. They should be able to give you a ballpark figure.
Not ideal but can't see any other way esecially if the Onbudsman won't fight for you.
And we wonder why insurance claim costs are on the up, it's not the payouts but the PI, if your going to get screwed through no fault of your own and be left severely out of pocket, not just in replacement cost but also ongoing premium bumps you might as well get an additional PI lump sum to cover your costs....
Well I would print off all adverts in your favour (older, higher mileage, lower spec cars at higher prices) only retail, and plot a few graphs. Age vs Value, Miles vs Value, spec vs value, colour vs value etc.
I did this when offered £600 (minus my £250 excess) on a mk3 astra. I got £1400, after taking the excess off. I sent them over 45 pages of proof that they were wrong, and kept on refusing to accept it.
I did this when offered £600 (minus my £250 excess) on a mk3 astra. I got £1400, after taking the excess off. I sent them over 45 pages of proof that they were wrong, and kept on refusing to accept it.
Do you have any 'Legal services' on your insurance?
If so you may be able to use these services, usually provided by a recommended legal provider, to help recover the extra cost from the third party.
One of the 'rules' or pillars of insurance is to return you to a state you were in prior to an accident that is not your fault. By hook or by crook I would continue to fight to get an appropriate value back.
Just to add my experience with a few of the main stream insurers is not like this at all, i know we cant name and shame but it would be interesting to know who it was so to avoid in the future!
Best of luck.
If so you may be able to use these services, usually provided by a recommended legal provider, to help recover the extra cost from the third party.
One of the 'rules' or pillars of insurance is to return you to a state you were in prior to an accident that is not your fault. By hook or by crook I would continue to fight to get an appropriate value back.
Just to add my experience with a few of the main stream insurers is not like this at all, i know we cant name and shame but it would be interesting to know who it was so to avoid in the future!
Best of luck.
OP,
Sorry to hear of your troubles, I'd def be inclined, as already suggested, to contact your insurance people, if you have legal cover, and insist they go after the other persons insurance company for your out of pocket expenses.
Also, to stop this kind of thing happening again, go with an Insurance Company that offers a premium based on an agreed value, you will prob end up paying slightly more, but will be guatanteed a full payout.
Sorry to hear of your troubles, I'd def be inclined, as already suggested, to contact your insurance people, if you have legal cover, and insist they go after the other persons insurance company for your out of pocket expenses.
Also, to stop this kind of thing happening again, go with an Insurance Company that offers a premium based on an agreed value, you will prob end up paying slightly more, but will be guatanteed a full payout.
If they won't settle and the ombudsman is useless the next step is to sue them in the small claims court. Costs you peanuts, could cost them a mint, they will settle. They turn up with a book claiming that it confers some kind of god given authority to screw you and you turn up with reams of evidence about the going rate for your car. You win they lose. The price of your replacing your car is the price of replacing your car in the real world and the best evidence is facts, by which I mean real vehicles sale prices. Now if they can show that the facts are different they have a chance. The book will not help them, I could write a book and so you you or anyone else. Real sales evidence is what is needed.
I had similar a few years ago.
I didn't involve my insurer but sent the other party's insurer a load of adverts and said that these represented the replacement cost of my car. When they refused to back down I said ' fine, don't give me the money, just go and buy a car of the same spec, age and condition as mine and put it on the drive. I'll be more than happy with that. Until that time I'll be using a hire car at your expense. If you don't agree I'll just go and get an accident management company on the case. "
It took 3 progressively higher counter offers from them but I didn't back down and eventually got the full amount after about a week.
The important thing is to be realistic with your estimate of the value - similar to how many people trying to sell their car have an unrealistic view of what it is worth, don't try and claim a stupid amount. Take a very hard look at what it really is worth and stick to that.
Good luck.
I didn't involve my insurer but sent the other party's insurer a load of adverts and said that these represented the replacement cost of my car. When they refused to back down I said ' fine, don't give me the money, just go and buy a car of the same spec, age and condition as mine and put it on the drive. I'll be more than happy with that. Until that time I'll be using a hire car at your expense. If you don't agree I'll just go and get an accident management company on the case. "
It took 3 progressively higher counter offers from them but I didn't back down and eventually got the full amount after about a week.
The important thing is to be realistic with your estimate of the value - similar to how many people trying to sell their car have an unrealistic view of what it is worth, don't try and claim a stupid amount. Take a very hard look at what it really is worth and stick to that.
Good luck.
Just came across this thread.
My partner is now in a similar position to the OP (albeit on a much lower value car).
I fully agree that insurance ought to put you back to the same state you were prior to the incident, I see no reason whatsoever why a person should be hundreds perhaps thousands of pounds out of pocket because of someone was negligent.
To the OP, sorry for what you're going through.
My partner is now in a similar position to the OP (albeit on a much lower value car).
I fully agree that insurance ought to put you back to the same state you were prior to the incident, I see no reason whatsoever why a person should be hundreds perhaps thousands of pounds out of pocket because of someone was negligent.
To the OP, sorry for what you're going through.
Don't trust what the FOS initially told you. You'll have used the consumer helpline, which to be honest is manned full of part-time students who know jack about this stuff and use scripts. You need to get a final response letter from the insurer and refer the case to the FOS officially - advise your insurer you are doing this and they are not to dispose of the salvage until the FOS have adjudicated. An adjudicator will then be assigned your case and this is where you need to provide the proof your car is worth more than the trade guides. Unless your car is in exceptionally poor condition, the insurer has to use the retail value, not trade so make sure they've done this.
If they have used retail, the onus is on you to prove your car is worth what you say it is and that the insurer is not discharging their liability by placing you in the position you were in prior to the loss. Emphasise the point that market value does not take into account current market movements and you would not be able to replace your car with the amount offered to you by the insurer.
Find examples with higher miles, more owners, poorer condition compared to yours that are being offered for more than the insurers offer. If you can do this, the FOS will take it into account and likely come to an agreement more in line with your expectations. I dealt with hundreds of valuation disputes with the FOS in a previous role and if evidence can be provided to support your case, they are very fair.
If they have used retail, the onus is on you to prove your car is worth what you say it is and that the insurer is not discharging their liability by placing you in the position you were in prior to the loss. Emphasise the point that market value does not take into account current market movements and you would not be able to replace your car with the amount offered to you by the insurer.
Find examples with higher miles, more owners, poorer condition compared to yours that are being offered for more than the insurers offer. If you can do this, the FOS will take it into account and likely come to an agreement more in line with your expectations. I dealt with hundreds of valuation disputes with the FOS in a previous role and if evidence can be provided to support your case, they are very fair.
andyc11 said:
Don't trust what the FOS initially told you. You'll have used the consumer helpline, which to be honest is manned full of part-time students who know jack about this stuff and use scripts. You need to get a final response letter from the insurer and refer the case to the FOS officially - advise your insurer you are doing this and they are not to dispose of the salvage until the FOS have adjudicated. An adjudicator will then be assigned your case and this is where you need to provide the proof your car is worth more than the trade guides. Unless your car is in exceptionally poor condition, the insurer has to use the retail value, not trade so make sure they've done this.
If they have used retail, the onus is on you to prove your car is worth what you say it is and that the insurer is not discharging their liability by placing you in the position you were in prior to the loss. Emphasise the point that market value does not take into account current market movements and you would not be able to replace your car with the amount offered to you by the insurer.
Find examples with higher miles, more owners, poorer condition compared to yours that are being offered for more than the insurers offer. If you can do this, the FOS will take it into account and likely come to an agreement more in line with your expectations. I dealt with hundreds of valuation disputes with the FOS in a previous role and if evidence can be provided to support your case, they are very fair.
I think we have a subject matter expert. Always nice to see a post like that.If they have used retail, the onus is on you to prove your car is worth what you say it is and that the insurer is not discharging their liability by placing you in the position you were in prior to the loss. Emphasise the point that market value does not take into account current market movements and you would not be able to replace your car with the amount offered to you by the insurer.
Find examples with higher miles, more owners, poorer condition compared to yours that are being offered for more than the insurers offer. If you can do this, the FOS will take it into account and likely come to an agreement more in line with your expectations. I dealt with hundreds of valuation disputes with the FOS in a previous role and if evidence can be provided to support your case, they are very fair.
The key for me, as a customer who was also responsible for his own accident(s) was the use of retail adverts, and the main effects plots I did on minitab - (I was doing some six sigma training so it was all good practice).
The other key was me, asking which model the assessor thought he'd valued.
"Well it's a 1.4 astra"
"Which particular model?"
"......."
"Do you know which version of engine it has?"
"It's a 1.4"
"8V or 16V? Spi or Mpi?"
"I don't know"
"How many owners has it Had?"
"I'm not sure that's relevant"
"Do you know when it was last serviced? Or if it's ever been serviced? or if it has a full service history?"
"I'm afraid I don't"
"Do you know the value of the declared modifications? Do you know what modifications it's got?)
"I didn't see any modifications"
"So you admit you valued my car but have no idea if it's a merit or a cdx, no idea if it has 56, 82 or 95 bhp, don't know if it has a full service history or if it's had 2 or 22 owners, no idea if it's standard or not, but you expect me to take what I'm offered ?"
Thus followed a bit of back tracking.
(That particular car was a 1.4 82 BHP LSi 8V mk3 astra with 3 owners, a full service history, 14 inch vauxhall alloys and standard GSi Front Calipers and suspension as declared mods - the suspension because I needed a rear spring and a front shock, and the Front calipers because I needed front discs and pads, and a mate, was "upgrading" his Gsi and they were almost free)
LanceRS said:
My e36 328 sport has just been rear ended by a nice female. My insurance company arranged for it to be taken away and the repair has estimated at £2700 for damage to the bumper, rear panel, boot floor and exhaust . They have written it off and have decided that it is worth £1200 at best because their book says so. While I appreciate that these might be difficult to accurately price due to rarity, differing condition and spec etc, looking at the adds a half decent one is at least £1k more than that. I have provided several examples ranging from £2300 to £4500.
The company in question says that they have also got 'an Independant accessor' who has valued it even lower and therefore that is their final offer.
How do I fight this further? Through no fault of my own I face the prospect of being left without my car and without sufficient funds to replace it.
Hope this helps:The company in question says that they have also got 'an Independant accessor' who has valued it even lower and therefore that is their final offer.
How do I fight this further? Through no fault of my own I face the prospect of being left without my car and without sufficient funds to replace it.
Two weeks ago my mums insurance company wrote off her 335d, she'd been hit by another driver they offered her "industry standard price" this worked out at £2300 less than what she could buy another one for, They said an Independent assessor had viewed her car & classed it as fair condition! I then went to BMW and got the original Spec Sheet showing all the optional extras her car had I then went to Three different car traders & asked them what they'd buy the car for(I had photos of the car pre crash the car was detail cleaned every 6 months had 3M stone guard on it so no stone chips) they offered £800-£1000 more than the insurance company so I got them to write their valuations down at a cost of £75 for all Three, I then went on Autotrader etc & sent them all the evidence.
I then spent an hour on the phone with one of their representatives as he tried proving to me that their price was a fair one(we both went onto the Autotrader with spec sheets to hand & went through it) he failed, I asked to speak to this Independent Assessor(how he can be Independent if my mum hadn't agreed to him assessing the car I don't know) as I wanted to know how he came to his valuation, they couldn't do this.
It was at this point I explained that the car was in my Bodyshop & that the only person that had come to view the car was the Engineer to make sure the damage matched the photos, but he's not an independent assessor as he didn't have the spec nor was he looking at the car with the view of it's undamaged value & that I know wanted a proper Assessor to come
out at their cost (I gave them Three who I was happy with) at £250.00-£350.00.
I heard nothing then yesterday my Mum got a letter stating that on this occasion due to the high specification of her car cheque for her car that left Her £200 shy of the cheapest car.
One thing of note though was that although they take your reg & know what car you own they aren't aware of spec so it's worth sending a spec sheet through, also I'd recommend a decent accident management company if it's not your fault they seem to get results quicker plus they are actually on your side. This is just an observation from my side of the fence as a bodyshop the accident management company cars seem to get the go ahead quicker than the others.
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 20th February 17:39
These are the guidelines used for valuations. If you get no where near what you need to replace the car then as much as I hate claims companies it may be the only way to recoup your loss.
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...
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