Lap times, are they relevant?
Discussion
I have been thinking about this for a while and I have come to the conclusion that they are.
My thoughts are this.
You are considering buying a performance car, by this I mean sports orientated i.e. Porsches, M cars, hot hatches etc.
I would judge the car on acceleration, (not necessarily 0-60) handling, sound, feel etc. Where can you test these criteria?On a track!
If road testers are doing it for you then you may base your decisions on their views, unless you can test the car on the track yourself.
My main point is that when I read that people say I don't care if a car is 10 secs faster than mine round the ring, I'm not taking my car to the track anyway. I think well, these cars were tested by the manufacturers round the 'Ring' for example to demonstrate its handling etc. why would they go to all that trouble for you to buy one and drive it to the shops and back or down the motorway. The group tests round a track are demonstrating the cars capabilities and comparing them.
Whether you like it or not, a performance car should be tested for performance capabilities, not its mpg, day to day driving. If your performance car is slower than a rival round a track then so be it. I see no point in saying ah but mine is better doing the day to day stuff.
That is why I think lap times are relevant.
My thoughts are this.
You are considering buying a performance car, by this I mean sports orientated i.e. Porsches, M cars, hot hatches etc.
I would judge the car on acceleration, (not necessarily 0-60) handling, sound, feel etc. Where can you test these criteria?On a track!
If road testers are doing it for you then you may base your decisions on their views, unless you can test the car on the track yourself.
My main point is that when I read that people say I don't care if a car is 10 secs faster than mine round the ring, I'm not taking my car to the track anyway. I think well, these cars were tested by the manufacturers round the 'Ring' for example to demonstrate its handling etc. why would they go to all that trouble for you to buy one and drive it to the shops and back or down the motorway. The group tests round a track are demonstrating the cars capabilities and comparing them.
Whether you like it or not, a performance car should be tested for performance capabilities, not its mpg, day to day driving. If your performance car is slower than a rival round a track then so be it. I see no point in saying ah but mine is better doing the day to day stuff.
That is why I think lap times are relevant.
I think ragging similar cars to the limit on a track like the 'ring is relevant as it can show which car will understeer more than others etc
I'm not really bothered about the time itself though, I'd be looking more at the reviews about how it managed it. My MX5 might handle a lot better than a car with a bigger engine, but the car with the bigger engine does a quicker lap time just because the power is there.
I'm not really bothered about the time itself though, I'd be looking more at the reviews about how it managed it. My MX5 might handle a lot better than a car with a bigger engine, but the car with the bigger engine does a quicker lap time just because the power is there.
Selmer Mk6 said:
What would you base your performance car decision on then?
By the way I am not saying that laptimes is the only decision, but to me it would one of them.
Mid range acceleration. I do a lot of motor way miles so I prefer cars that can give me some acceleration easily at mid range speeds. By the way I am not saying that laptimes is the only decision, but to me it would one of them.
Selmer Mk6 said:
What would you base your performance car decision on then?
By the way I am not saying that laptimes is the only decision, but to me it would one of them.
If the Nissan GTR posted a slow Ring time I'd judge it to be a failure because the whole ethos behind the car seems to be about performance. It's all about big power and getting as much of that power down onto the road as possible.By the way I am not saying that laptimes is the only decision, but to me it would one of them.
I can admire the car for the fact that it succeeded in what it set out to do. Personally I think that the 370Z is more my type of fun car, but if for whatever reason I decided I needed something with big performance I'd be looking at lap times and acceleration times, because that's what performance is.
As I have said or thought I said, the relevance of laptimes is comparing rival cars on track. A different test altogether is driving around the streets.
The fun factor does come into it also. However, some cars are fast and also can be enjoyed. A poster referred to a 370Z. A journalist (the carbuyer guy) said it was more fun than a Cayman around a track, but the Cayman was quicker. I think more people would buy the Cayman though!
The fun factor does come into it also. However, some cars are fast and also can be enjoyed. A poster referred to a 370Z. A journalist (the carbuyer guy) said it was more fun than a Cayman around a track, but the Cayman was quicker. I think more people would buy the Cayman though!
Personally I couldn't care less how quickly a road car goes round the Nurburgring. Reasons include,
- Easiest way to improve track speed is to fit rock hard suspension. Hopeless for day-to-day use.
- Next easiest way is to fit hugely expensive carbon ceramic brakes. "Fade free" is completely irrelevant for road use.
Claudia Skies said:
Personally I couldn't care less how quickly a road car goes round the Nurburgring. Reasons include,
Do you drive a performance cars?- Easiest way to improve track speed is to fit rock hard suspension. Hopeless for day-to-day use.
- Next easiest way is to fit hugely expensive carbon ceramic brakes. "Fade free" is completely irrelevant for road use.
Claudia Skies said:
^^^ Yes. Although strangely my journeys involve public roads rather than racing circuits.
Lap times, bhp figures etc are primarily the territory of pub bores.
^^^^This. Includes marketing/sales tool and bragging rights as well. Most people I know with performance cars drive them nowhere near the vehicles limits so, above a certain power level, it doesn't matter what they drive - they are no quicker A to B. However it doesn't stop them wittering on about how fast round the 'ring their particular steed is even though it is completely irelevant to them due to their own limited talent.Lap times, bhp figures etc are primarily the territory of pub bores.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff