Skinning guy tries to bulk up - Ten weeks in....
Discussion
So I started just before Christmas with the intention of putting on muscle.
I was at 70kgs, 19.9% body fat giving me a lean mass of 53.3kg.
After ten weeks of training three times a week, leg day, upper body push, upper body pull, I've certainly got significantly stronger and my numbers are now:
74.8kgs, 22.4% fat, lean mass 55.2kgs.
So I've gained just under two kilos of muscle and three of fat.
Now diet-wise I'm struggling to get much beyond 2000 calories a day because I eat very little in the way of starchy carbs. Mainly I eat protein (about 130-150g a day) and fat which satisfies my appetite. I'd lost a stone and half eating this way before I started training and I don't want to go back to a high carbs and low fat diet.
So what do we think? Is that a reasonable muscle gain or could I be achieving more? should I worry about the fat gain or just keep growing muscle for now? Would more carbs and protein mean more muscle gain or is my body getting enough calories?
I was at 70kgs, 19.9% body fat giving me a lean mass of 53.3kg.
After ten weeks of training three times a week, leg day, upper body push, upper body pull, I've certainly got significantly stronger and my numbers are now:
74.8kgs, 22.4% fat, lean mass 55.2kgs.
So I've gained just under two kilos of muscle and three of fat.
Now diet-wise I'm struggling to get much beyond 2000 calories a day because I eat very little in the way of starchy carbs. Mainly I eat protein (about 130-150g a day) and fat which satisfies my appetite. I'd lost a stone and half eating this way before I started training and I don't want to go back to a high carbs and low fat diet.
So what do we think? Is that a reasonable muscle gain or could I be achieving more? should I worry about the fat gain or just keep growing muscle for now? Would more carbs and protein mean more muscle gain or is my body getting enough calories?
At that rate you are just going to keep getting fatter and fatter. You really want to be minimising your fat gain while you're bulking, you're going to have to get rid of all that fat at some point so why bother putting it on in the first place? Five kilos in two months is a huge amount of weight to gain, especially at your starting weight. Also, unless you're on drugs then it's really unlikely that you've put on 4.4 lbs of muscle in two months, even as a beginner.
Work out your maintenance calories and add ~250 and starting hitting that each day. To gain that much weight you must be in a big surplus and probably eating more than 2000 calories a day like you suggested. The 150g of protein you're eating each day is fine, you don't need any more.
I'm saying this as someone who has just finished rectifying the huge mistake you're making and it's cost me about 10 months of potential muscle gain. I started at 61kg and went up to 79kg in 10 months of lifting - and that was with me starting at 16% body fat. I vastly overestimated how muscle I'd put on and much fat I would need to cut to look lean, I started cutting on May 1st 2014 and have lost 13.1 kilos and have only just recently looked lean.
The situation will be compounded for you as you're starting at a much higher body fat, at the rate you're putting on fat you will be grossly overweight within a year, regardless of how much muscle you put on.
Use http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/ to get a rough guide to how many calories your body burns each day with your level of activity and to work out what your need for a small surplus.
Also, if you're taking creatine then it's possible a chunk of your weight gain will be from water retention.
Work out your maintenance calories and add ~250 and starting hitting that each day. To gain that much weight you must be in a big surplus and probably eating more than 2000 calories a day like you suggested. The 150g of protein you're eating each day is fine, you don't need any more.
I'm saying this as someone who has just finished rectifying the huge mistake you're making and it's cost me about 10 months of potential muscle gain. I started at 61kg and went up to 79kg in 10 months of lifting - and that was with me starting at 16% body fat. I vastly overestimated how muscle I'd put on and much fat I would need to cut to look lean, I started cutting on May 1st 2014 and have lost 13.1 kilos and have only just recently looked lean.
The situation will be compounded for you as you're starting at a much higher body fat, at the rate you're putting on fat you will be grossly overweight within a year, regardless of how much muscle you put on.
Use http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/ to get a rough guide to how many calories your body burns each day with your level of activity and to work out what your need for a small surplus.
Also, if you're taking creatine then it's possible a chunk of your weight gain will be from water retention.
Thanks Complex, that's helpful. I'm at a very decent gym which is focused towards the kind of goals I'm looking to achieve, there isn't a single running machine in the whole place. I get help from a personal trainer but as he is trying to run the business as well I think he is just letting me get on with it.
He set me the following macro-nutrition targets when I started:
Daily Calorie intake: 2,437
Protein: 175g
Fats: 70g
Carbs: 276g
I can manage the fat and the protein but the carbs and total calories are almost impossible.
I have been properly measured and my lean mass has gone from 53.3kgs to 55.2. Water has gone from 56.4% to 57%.
I think the fat gain is actually down to eating more carbs in a desperate attempt to get enough calories. I was eating similar levels of fat and protein before I started training and was losing weight.
I was happy the way things were going but at my last review I was told to try and eat more which seemed wrong to me.
He set me the following macro-nutrition targets when I started:
Daily Calorie intake: 2,437
Protein: 175g
Fats: 70g
Carbs: 276g
I can manage the fat and the protein but the carbs and total calories are almost impossible.
I have been properly measured and my lean mass has gone from 53.3kgs to 55.2. Water has gone from 56.4% to 57%.
I think the fat gain is actually down to eating more carbs in a desperate attempt to get enough calories. I was eating similar levels of fat and protein before I started training and was losing weight.
I was happy the way things were going but at my last review I was told to try and eat more which seemed wrong to me.
Personally, I would try trimming some of the carbs off of your diet. You're putting on weight quickly so you're easily consuming enough, if you shave off 50g of carbs you'll be on 2237 calories per day which would be more manageable. You're easily putting on enough weight to be able to do that and it not affect your muscle gain - very few calories get turned to muscle so you don't need a huge surplus.
I'm presuming you're not drinking any alcohol in your diet either? Ethanol is 7 calories per gram and sometimes gets overlooked.
What kind of foods are you eating to struggle getting to 2400 calories anyway? I'm currently cutting on 1800 calories and find I could easily be eating double. Don't be afraid of throwing in something like a cake or couple of donuts in the middle of the day to get your carb count up, it really isn't the end of the world.
I'm presuming you're not drinking any alcohol in your diet either? Ethanol is 7 calories per gram and sometimes gets overlooked.
What kind of foods are you eating to struggle getting to 2400 calories anyway? I'm currently cutting on 1800 calories and find I could easily be eating double. Don't be afraid of throwing in something like a cake or couple of donuts in the middle of the day to get your carb count up, it really isn't the end of the world.
how is 2000 calories enough to gain that kind of weight in that time?!
If I eat 2000 calories and just sit on my arse all day, I won't put on even a pound!
I do the 5x5 2-3 times a week and then I also have to swim train 3 times a week (only about 15km a week though so not much). I forced myself up to 3500 calories a day but only managed it for about a month, gained no weight, and felt awful the whole time, so just packed it in. Much happier, I have a good physique already; 20 years of swimming has sorted that. I just wanted to develop more power.
As it happens I am still able to increase the weights in 5x5 week on week, though struggling on squats now. Also finding weighted dips are not nearly as nasty as I thought they'd be. Weighted pull ups on the other hand...
If I eat 2000 calories and just sit on my arse all day, I won't put on even a pound!
I do the 5x5 2-3 times a week and then I also have to swim train 3 times a week (only about 15km a week though so not much). I forced myself up to 3500 calories a day but only managed it for about a month, gained no weight, and felt awful the whole time, so just packed it in. Much happier, I have a good physique already; 20 years of swimming has sorted that. I just wanted to develop more power.
As it happens I am still able to increase the weights in 5x5 week on week, though struggling on squats now. Also finding weighted dips are not nearly as nasty as I thought they'd be. Weighted pull ups on the other hand...
slow and steady wins that race, take it steady and slowly build, your goal should be in years not weeks, weight gain isn't really my area, but you have to make an effort to eat maybe 2400-2500 calories a day with the right macros & work out hard in order to burn the extra calories and build the muscle. If your putting on fat its stores, you need to be eating extra but then lifting which will use it to build muscle.
It's pretty much impossible that you've not been eating more than 2000 calories a day. 10.5 lbs in two months means a surplus of around 600 per day. Even if you maintenance calories were as low as say 1800 (no way will they be that low, especially if you've been attending the gym a lot) then that would mean you're averaging 2400 calories.
The only answer is that you're miscounting your calories.
Are you counting EVERYTHING that goes into your body? Sugary drinks, cups of tea (with sugar?), alcohol, milk in protein shakes?
The only answer is that you're miscounting your calories.
Are you counting EVERYTHING that goes into your body? Sugary drinks, cups of tea (with sugar?), alcohol, milk in protein shakes?
If you're tracking macros it should be easier to find out where you can put some extra calories in.
I'm on a clean bulk at the moment and on pretty much double the fats you're on (I weigh 84kgs though(
Don't be afraid to get some more calories there.
Snack on cashews/pecans or even my new favourite item, stick of celery with peanut or almond butter spread along the length of it.
Couple of those and you'll find an extra 200 calories.
Nuts and berries are excellent ways of keeping macros us.
Alternative is a supplement, but that'll be more protein than you need.
Also, we don't really know what your macros were prior, so you may be increasing too quickly for your metabolism to catch up.
Stay at that level a little longer, keep lifting and if numbers keep going up then fine, if not or if you plateau, increase slightly.
It's VERY difficult bulk and not put some fat alongside the muscle, but increased muscle mass will allow you to 'cut' better at a later date.
Most guys are cutting now ready for summer. My cut will start mid May
I'm on a clean bulk at the moment and on pretty much double the fats you're on (I weigh 84kgs though(
Don't be afraid to get some more calories there.
Snack on cashews/pecans or even my new favourite item, stick of celery with peanut or almond butter spread along the length of it.
Couple of those and you'll find an extra 200 calories.
Nuts and berries are excellent ways of keeping macros us.
Alternative is a supplement, but that'll be more protein than you need.
Also, we don't really know what your macros were prior, so you may be increasing too quickly for your metabolism to catch up.
Stay at that level a little longer, keep lifting and if numbers keep going up then fine, if not or if you plateau, increase slightly.
It's VERY difficult bulk and not put some fat alongside the muscle, but increased muscle mass will allow you to 'cut' better at a later date.
Most guys are cutting now ready for summer. My cut will start mid May
I wasn't counting calories at all until this week so perhaps I'm not very good at it. The trouble is I'm coming from a low carb/high fat and protein diet which worked brilliantly for me so I don't really want to eat bread, pasta, or potatoes.
Also, I'm not a single guy with a fixed work schedule so it's difficult be consistent. Yesterday for example was:
Had a lie in, big bowl of porridge at 9:30am.
Drove to auction, was late, missed lunch. M&S Beef and Onion sub roll and some crisps at about 3pm.
Drove home, did some work, wife decided we had to go and visit her sister the night before she has a c-section = massive Chinese.
Did feel hungry all day really, ate convenient rubbish.
Also, I'm not a single guy with a fixed work schedule so it's difficult be consistent. Yesterday for example was:
Had a lie in, big bowl of porridge at 9:30am.
Drove to auction, was late, missed lunch. M&S Beef and Onion sub roll and some crisps at about 3pm.
Drove home, did some work, wife decided we had to go and visit her sister the night before she has a c-section = massive Chinese.
Did feel hungry all day really, ate convenient rubbish.
Ossiantoad said:
I wasn't counting calories at all until this week so perhaps I'm not very good at it. The trouble is I'm coming from a low carb/high fat and protein diet which worked brilliantly for me so I don't really want to eat bread, pasta, or potatoes.
Also, I'm not a single guy with a fixed work schedule so it's difficult be consistent. Yesterday for example was:
Had a lie in, big bowl of porridge at 9:30am.
Drove to auction, was late, missed lunch. M&S Beef and Onion sub roll and some crisps at about 3pm.
Drove home, did some work, wife decided we had to go and visit her sister the night before she has a c-section = massive Chinese.
Did feel hungry all day really, ate convenient rubbish.
I know what you mean, I'm a father of two youngsters and it's difficult to eat clean all the time when you're here there and everywhere with them.Also, I'm not a single guy with a fixed work schedule so it's difficult be consistent. Yesterday for example was:
Had a lie in, big bowl of porridge at 9:30am.
Drove to auction, was late, missed lunch. M&S Beef and Onion sub roll and some crisps at about 3pm.
Drove home, did some work, wife decided we had to go and visit her sister the night before she has a c-section = massive Chinese.
Did feel hungry all day really, ate convenient rubbish.
Still, i'm eating clean, now 25 days in, but I don't deprive myself of alcohol on a Saturday (G&Ts or red wine only though)
I've been experimenting with not bothering to diarise/log since 11th July 2014 because my work and life means that I am often eating on the move. It's not ideal. My plan is to ensure that I continue my exercise routine (part of my eating irregularities is down to the session locations and travel). My preworkout might be a packet of crisps and a Crunchie. So far, I've not got fatter, am still hovering around the 72kg mark.
Average week includes about 5 hours of cardio in the form of tennis and/or dodgeball and 3 sessions of weight work including gymnastics.
Average week includes about 5 hours of cardio in the form of tennis and/or dodgeball and 3 sessions of weight work including gymnastics.
Ive tried not counting but just started putting weight on, so am back using myfitnesspal again.
I do work 9-5 mon-fri and am single no kids, I don't have the challenges you guys have, but surely the key is to be prepared keep bags of nuts/cereal bars etc handy in case you miss a meal.
If I need to grab a sandwich in the supermarket I usually just get cooked chicken instead and some nuts.
Having 1 day when you eat a Chinese takeaway isn't going to cause a problem but its about changing your eating habits in the main & changing the way you think, knowing that you shouldn't have had the takeaway and feeling pissed at yourself for eating it and the next day when your all bloated and all you can taste is salt is a step in thee right direction.
I have been in situations were I've been hungry and just had to eat something I shouldn't have because I just couldn't find or think of anything else.
I do work 9-5 mon-fri and am single no kids, I don't have the challenges you guys have, but surely the key is to be prepared keep bags of nuts/cereal bars etc handy in case you miss a meal.
If I need to grab a sandwich in the supermarket I usually just get cooked chicken instead and some nuts.
Having 1 day when you eat a Chinese takeaway isn't going to cause a problem but its about changing your eating habits in the main & changing the way you think, knowing that you shouldn't have had the takeaway and feeling pissed at yourself for eating it and the next day when your all bloated and all you can taste is salt is a step in thee right direction.
I have been in situations were I've been hungry and just had to eat something I shouldn't have because I just couldn't find or think of anything else.
Edited by Foliage on Wednesday 25th February 12:02
Foliage said:
Ive tried not counting but just started putting weight on, so am back using myfitnesspal again.
I do work 9-5 mon-fri and am single no kids, I don't have the challenges you guys have, but surely the key is to be prepared keep bags of nuts/cereal bars etc handy in case you miss a meal.
If I need to grab a sandwich in the supermarket I usually just get cooked chicken instead and some nuts.
Having 1 day when you eat a Chinese takeaway isn't going to cause a problem but its about changing your eating habits in the main & changing the way you think, knowing that you shouldn't have had the takeaway and feeling pissed at yourself for eating it and the next day when your all bloated and all you can taste is salt is a step in thee right direction.
I have been in situations were I've been hungry and just had to eat something I shouldn't have because I just couldn't find or think of anything else.
Taking the steps you are and being aware of what you're doing is a great start. Other good habits will creep in as long as you start to stop the bad ones as you go.I do work 9-5 mon-fri and am single no kids, I don't have the challenges you guys have, but surely the key is to be prepared keep bags of nuts/cereal bars etc handy in case you miss a meal.
If I need to grab a sandwich in the supermarket I usually just get cooked chicken instead and some nuts.
Having 1 day when you eat a Chinese takeaway isn't going to cause a problem but its about changing your eating habits in the main & changing the way you think, knowing that you shouldn't have had the takeaway and feeling pissed at yourself for eating it and the next day when your all bloated and all you can taste is salt is a step in thee right direction.
I have been in situations were I've been hungry and just had to eat something I shouldn't have because I just couldn't find or think of anything else.
Edited by Foliage on Wednesday 25th February 12:02
I now keep a 2l bottle of water on my desk. Fill it in the morning before I sit down and ensure it's gone by the time I leave. Was difficult at first, but i'm doing over 3 litres now, excluding herbal teas and coffees. It's now 12:19 and i've finished the bottle already.
Snack wise.
Celery, smothered in almond/peanut butter wrap in cling, done.
Tub of dried seeds etc (pumpkin, sunflower, goji)
My absolute fave (careful not to O/D on these) pecans and cashews, lightly toasted in pan with a tbsp of maple syrup.
I tend to buy blueberries for my sweet tooth.
Hungry before bed...that's a tough one...only thing i've found is 'Muscle Moose'
Might bore you senseless, but https://twitter.com/clintmarcel I tend to photo food
Foliage said:
Ive tried not counting but just started putting weight on, so am back using myfitnesspal again.
I do work 9-5 mon-fri and am single no kids, I don't have the challenges you guys have, but surely the key is to be prepared keep bags of nuts/cereal bars etc handy in case you miss a meal.
If I need to grab a sandwich in the supermarket I usually just get cooked chicken instead and some nuts.
Having 1 day when you eat a Chinese takeaway isn't going to cause a problem but its about changing your eating habits in the main & changing the way you think, knowing that you shouldn't have had the takeaway and feeling pissed at yourself for eating it and the next day when your all bloated and all you can taste is salt is a step in thee right direction.
I have been in situations were I've been hungry and just had to eat something I shouldn't have because I just couldn't find or think of anything else.
Re being single, it really reduces your excuses, doesn't it!I do work 9-5 mon-fri and am single no kids, I don't have the challenges you guys have, but surely the key is to be prepared keep bags of nuts/cereal bars etc handy in case you miss a meal.
If I need to grab a sandwich in the supermarket I usually just get cooked chicken instead and some nuts.
Having 1 day when you eat a Chinese takeaway isn't going to cause a problem but its about changing your eating habits in the main & changing the way you think, knowing that you shouldn't have had the takeaway and feeling pissed at yourself for eating it and the next day when your all bloated and all you can taste is salt is a step in thee right direction.
I have been in situations were I've been hungry and just had to eat something I shouldn't have because I just couldn't find or think of anything else.
Edited by Foliage on Wednesday 25th February 12:02
I'd avoid the nuts as you can just destroy a whole bag putting away 1000kcals in minutes.
I think I haven't got fatter again because I have the time to do a lot of movement. Or rather, I choose to do a lot of movement as my entertainment rather than sitting in front of the TV all evening.
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