HMS DUNCAN The newest and last Type 45
Discussion
Hi, a couple of weeks ago I spent a few days with HMS Duncannahead of her deployment to the Gulf. I thought some of you might find my experiences of interest.
http://www.danentwisle.com/blog/2015/02/23/hms-dun...
http://www.danentwisle.com/blog/2015/02/23/hms-dun...
You've got to wonder how long they will last. They are all aged within 6 years of each other so refits etc will reflect. They will all start wearing out together.
Contrast this with the Tupe 42s which left service between 1999 and 2013.
More ships spread over a longer build period. More flexibility when it comes to down time.
At the moment you have an entire class if ship servicing one operation - the Gulf. I know we've sent them elsewhere but if you work out the tempo for the Gulf its one ship on task, one preparing to go. One returning and then post deployment maintenance. That leaves the other three to have things like deep naintnance or refts trials and training.
Where's the slack? And with 1 or 2 needed to escort the carrier when it comes, well the figures don't add up.
It's OK when the ships are new, but being run hard as they are, they won't stay new for long. There is no slack for major breakdowns, accidents (Remember Nottingham and Southampton?) or God forbid action damage/loss.
It makes the argument for the Type 26 to potentially have a batch of maybe 4 optimised for Anti Air Warfare.
That ain't going to happen is it?
Contrast this with the Tupe 42s which left service between 1999 and 2013.
More ships spread over a longer build period. More flexibility when it comes to down time.
At the moment you have an entire class if ship servicing one operation - the Gulf. I know we've sent them elsewhere but if you work out the tempo for the Gulf its one ship on task, one preparing to go. One returning and then post deployment maintenance. That leaves the other three to have things like deep naintnance or refts trials and training.
Where's the slack? And with 1 or 2 needed to escort the carrier when it comes, well the figures don't add up.
It's OK when the ships are new, but being run hard as they are, they won't stay new for long. There is no slack for major breakdowns, accidents (Remember Nottingham and Southampton?) or God forbid action damage/loss.
It makes the argument for the Type 26 to potentially have a batch of maybe 4 optimised for Anti Air Warfare.
That ain't going to happen is it?
wildcat45 said:
You've got to wonder how long they will last. They are all aged within 6 years of each other so refits etc will reflect. They will all start wearing out together.
Contrast this with the Tupe 42s which left service between 1999 and 2013.
More ships spread over a longer build period. More flexibility when it comes to down time.
At the moment you have an entire class if ship servicing one operation - the Gulf. I know we've sent them elsewhere but if you work out the tempo for the Gulf its one ship on task, one preparing to go. One returning and then post deployment maintenance. That leaves the other three to have things like deep naintnance or refts trials and training.
Where's the slack? And with 1 or 2 needed to escort the carrier when it comes, well the figures don't add up.
It's OK when the ships are new, but being run hard as they are, they won't stay new for long. There is no slack for major breakdowns, accidents (Remember Nottingham and Southampton?) or God forbid action damage/loss.
It makes the argument for the Type 26 to potentially have a batch of maybe 4 optimised for Anti Air Warfare.
That ain't going to happen is it?
The 26 is ASW, 27 is GP and for export markets the AAW version has been tagged Type 28. Personally I think they should wait a year and start another 45 with "improvements" found while on ops. Then continue the process for five years.Contrast this with the Tupe 42s which left service between 1999 and 2013.
More ships spread over a longer build period. More flexibility when it comes to down time.
At the moment you have an entire class if ship servicing one operation - the Gulf. I know we've sent them elsewhere but if you work out the tempo for the Gulf its one ship on task, one preparing to go. One returning and then post deployment maintenance. That leaves the other three to have things like deep naintnance or refts trials and training.
Where's the slack? And with 1 or 2 needed to escort the carrier when it comes, well the figures don't add up.
It's OK when the ships are new, but being run hard as they are, they won't stay new for long. There is no slack for major breakdowns, accidents (Remember Nottingham and Southampton?) or God forbid action damage/loss.
It makes the argument for the Type 26 to potentially have a batch of maybe 4 optimised for Anti Air Warfare.
That ain't going to happen is it?
The Royal Navy work on the 'rule of three'. That means for every three ships, one is deployed, one is in training and one is in refit. We've got 19 Frigates/Destroyers. We have had to 'borrow' engineers from the US and Europe to man the ships that should be deployed because personnel cuts have been so severe. A ship may be technologically advanced, but it can only be in one place at a time.
Things are grim indeed.
Things are grim indeed.
wildcat45 said:
Where's the slack?
So we'd currently have 2 destroyers, 4 frigs, 1/2 SSBN, 2 SSN, 1 Assaultship/Landingship on active combat service. Same number in training ish, & the rest being fixed/refitted.
Plus we are currently replacing some of the subs, we have an aircraft carrier in construction.
Not enough to do the job. Especially as the RN goes down the specialist warship route.
If you need AAW to provide air defence, you need a T45. A 23 won't do the job. The same as for example ASuW. You ain't going to go hunting subs with a T45.
There is no slack in the fleet. The answer is not necessarily more high end warships, that's the big debate at the moment. More ships to do the low intensity operations. It is silly for example to send a ship llike a T45 out hunting drug runners. It can do the job. What you really need is a cheap but equipped for the job Offshore Patrol Vessel, it leaves the high end ships for the job they were designed for.
The RN currently has a River Clas OPV is deployed in the Caribbean. With three more coming in the near future it is possibly a taste of things to come.
As it stands now the RN is not actually covering its commitments. Proof there is no smack cm an be seen by the 'gapping' at times of the Flert Ready Escort.
If you need AAW to provide air defence, you need a T45. A 23 won't do the job. The same as for example ASuW. You ain't going to go hunting subs with a T45.
There is no slack in the fleet. The answer is not necessarily more high end warships, that's the big debate at the moment. More ships to do the low intensity operations. It is silly for example to send a ship llike a T45 out hunting drug runners. It can do the job. What you really need is a cheap but equipped for the job Offshore Patrol Vessel, it leaves the high end ships for the job they were designed for.
The RN currently has a River Clas OPV is deployed in the Caribbean. With three more coming in the near future it is possibly a taste of things to come.
As it stands now the RN is not actually covering its commitments. Proof there is no smack cm an be seen by the 'gapping' at times of the Flert Ready Escort.
Edited by wildcat45 on Tuesday 24th February 15:38
Whilst I agree with you about not needing a t45 to go drug hunting I doubt the mod would allow us to purchase a fleet of lets say six corvettes for anti piracy and drug prevention work, they would want to make sure the ships were capable independent fighting ships or as part of a fleet.
IanMorewood said:
Whilst I agree with you about not needing a t45 to go drug hunting I doubt the mod would allow us to purchase a fleet of lets say six corvettes for anti piracy and drug prevention work, they would want to make sure the ships were capable independent fighting ships or as part of a fleet.
Stuff like the swedens Visby class look quite capable, bit lacking in air defense, could do with some sort of point defence system, but for the size (under 1000ton) looks quite formidable.Biggest issue to a class of capable corvettes/light Frigates is that 1SL wants lots of big shiny very capable ships, so that when and where ever they are in world they can do pretty much any tasking given to them. Being seen to compromise on that position will be ceased on by the MoD and all he will get is Corvettes and light Frigates and no big shiny ones. I suspect he'll get 8 big shiny ones and n 'others'.
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