10 Year Old Cars
Discussion
I often have in depth discussions about cars in general with a friend of mine and I happened to mention last night that I'd seen a fully main dealer serviced and fully MOT'd mint condition 54 plate Volvo V70 D5 up for sale which I might contemplate buying. The car was fully loaded with basically all the options fitted and has covered 88k miles.
My mate said he'd personally never again touch a vehicle that is around the 10 years mark as he considers that age to be near enough end-of-life with serious concerns over the reliability of the various components (mostly electronic) which he reckons WILL frequently give trouble.
So, what's the general consensus on vehicles that are ten years and over? Are they really going to be that unreliable that they're not worth touching?
I guess one way to look at it would be that 3-5 year old vehicles have 'newness' on their side but generally speaking are more complex than the older cars and will have more points of failure. So maybe the two sort of cancel each other out (up to a point).
I'm genuinely interested in peoples opinion on this.
My mate said he'd personally never again touch a vehicle that is around the 10 years mark as he considers that age to be near enough end-of-life with serious concerns over the reliability of the various components (mostly electronic) which he reckons WILL frequently give trouble.
So, what's the general consensus on vehicles that are ten years and over? Are they really going to be that unreliable that they're not worth touching?
I guess one way to look at it would be that 3-5 year old vehicles have 'newness' on their side but generally speaking are more complex than the older cars and will have more points of failure. So maybe the two sort of cancel each other out (up to a point).
I'm genuinely interested in peoples opinion on this.
My wife has a ten year old BMW 120D, its in good condition but thats because she is a good, careful driver and we keep on top of basic maintainence as well as having any other issues sorted before they cause a failure.
I have a 10 year old honda civic. Again, I drive it carefully, service it regularly (8000 miles) and have any issues adressed before they cause a failure.
I also have a 15 (almost 16) year old suzuki SV650 motorcycle. Amongst the motorcycling fraternity, it could be considered high miles (73,000 but I bet some people on here have got younger bikes with more miles!) but again, I keep on top of servicing, adress issues and it has been as reliable as anything else on the road (indeed, the BMW has had more issues in the 3 years my wife has owned that than I've had in the 8 years I've owned this motorcycle)
So
The moral is: If you want a car or any vehicle to last a lifetime, look after it like you want it to last a lifetime. Clean it, service it, get any issues looked at and sorted before they lead to a failure.
I have a 10 year old honda civic. Again, I drive it carefully, service it regularly (8000 miles) and have any issues adressed before they cause a failure.
I also have a 15 (almost 16) year old suzuki SV650 motorcycle. Amongst the motorcycling fraternity, it could be considered high miles (73,000 but I bet some people on here have got younger bikes with more miles!) but again, I keep on top of servicing, adress issues and it has been as reliable as anything else on the road (indeed, the BMW has had more issues in the 3 years my wife has owned that than I've had in the 8 years I've owned this motorcycle)
So
The moral is: If you want a car or any vehicle to last a lifetime, look after it like you want it to last a lifetime. Clean it, service it, get any issues looked at and sorted before they lead to a failure.
I bought a 12 year Tino last year. 1 owner, 32K miles, 13 main dealer services. 9000 miles later, not spent a penny on it. Drives like new, looks about 2 years old.
Personally I don't care about age, it's all about mileage, condition and service history.
Also having spent my working life in the motor trade at main dealers, I can happily confirm that age has little to do with failures in new cars.
Poor design, cheapskating on components and crap build quality are the culprits.
Personally I don't care about age, it's all about mileage, condition and service history.
Also having spent my working life in the motor trade at main dealers, I can happily confirm that age has little to do with failures in new cars.
Poor design, cheapskating on components and crap build quality are the culprits.
Edited by Hammer67 on Thursday 26th February 09:43
A lot depends on the car and what the backup is like. Really common cars like BMWs tend to have a lot of specialists and the common faults are well known, so fixes can be reasonable.
All cars can suffer from aging electrics - cam sensors, coil packs, EGR valves, door lock sensors etc
My Jag XJ at less than 6 years old was a mass of electrical and other faults, patched up at great expense by the dealer as there wasn't a local specialist and using Jag parts as there was no alternative.
All cars can suffer from aging electrics - cam sensors, coil packs, EGR valves, door lock sensors etc
My Jag XJ at less than 6 years old was a mass of electrical and other faults, patched up at great expense by the dealer as there wasn't a local specialist and using Jag parts as there was no alternative.
helidan said:
which he reckons WILL frequently give trouble.
Nothing's ever set in stone. A 2 month old car MAY give severe trouble and a 15 year old car MAY run flawlessly.I have a 13 year old car which needed a bit of welding at last MOT, burns quite a bit of oil but other than that just needs the usual consumables.
I think the issue is that people with the attitude of "old cars are going to be lots of trouble" also equate 'servicing and maintenance' with 'trouble'. They are probably knackering the newish cars they're driving, but they change (because it's got too old, obv.) before anything serious breaks. And then their old car breaks before 10 years old, "because it's old." No, you muppet, it's because you didn't look after it.
I've had a 52 plate Civic for the last four years, absolutely nothing wrong with it. No major servicing costs, not failed an MOT for anything other than minor reasons (slightly delaminated number plate last autumn). 108k, and hoping to keep it until I don't need the boot space for the greyhound any more.
I think your friend feeds from a certain part of the car food-chain and there's nothing really wrong with that if it suits him.
However, electronics in cars weren't in their infancy 10 years ago so the idea that by now they'll be failing is a bit far fetched. The cost if they do go may be a killer but the fail rate must be pretty low these days.
Last September I bought a 10 year old Subaru with a little over 100k on the clock (oh, the horror) and I can tell you there is NOTHING wrong with it. It feels like a 3 year old car to me.
A few years ago my GF got an MX5 which was then about 8 years old with very low mileage and good history. It's now about 13 years old and there is NOTHING wrong with. It's in great shape and everything works perfectly.
If you like that car when you've been to see it just buy it. Your pal may learn a lesson.
However, electronics in cars weren't in their infancy 10 years ago so the idea that by now they'll be failing is a bit far fetched. The cost if they do go may be a killer but the fail rate must be pretty low these days.
Last September I bought a 10 year old Subaru with a little over 100k on the clock (oh, the horror) and I can tell you there is NOTHING wrong with it. It feels like a 3 year old car to me.
A few years ago my GF got an MX5 which was then about 8 years old with very low mileage and good history. It's now about 13 years old and there is NOTHING wrong with. It's in great shape and everything works perfectly.
If you like that car when you've been to see it just buy it. Your pal may learn a lesson.
Just bought a 10 year old 54 plate (December 04) Volvo S60 D5 SE.
Its in superb condition, 1 owner from new, 72K miles - the metallic paint is like glass and flawless - seems very thick and little to no orange peel.
No rattles, no squeeks, taut suspension, precise gears - just very nice.
The oil is like honey coloured even after 3 months and 2000 miles in a diesel engine.
Would I buy another 10 year old car? - hell yeah!
Trick is, finding the right car - its a combination of finding cars with a reputation for solidity and longevity coupled with a fastidious previous owner.
I got lucky - a strong car owned and looked after from new by someone I know.
Anyway, a Volvo D5 seems to be a car that hides its age very well.
Its in superb condition, 1 owner from new, 72K miles - the metallic paint is like glass and flawless - seems very thick and little to no orange peel.
No rattles, no squeeks, taut suspension, precise gears - just very nice.
The oil is like honey coloured even after 3 months and 2000 miles in a diesel engine.
Would I buy another 10 year old car? - hell yeah!
Trick is, finding the right car - its a combination of finding cars with a reputation for solidity and longevity coupled with a fastidious previous owner.
I got lucky - a strong car owned and looked after from new by someone I know.
Anyway, a Volvo D5 seems to be a car that hides its age very well.
I've done exactly what you are looking to do as my daily drive, and with a D5 engined Volvo to boot. First off, it's hugely liberating just buying a car with your debit card. No finance, no APR, no monthly chunk coming out of your bank account. I don't know if I could go back to that in all honesty. I think my days of financing £35k/£40k motors are long gone now, I'd rather invest the money or spend it on my kids.
The gamble is, that even with a FSH you still don't know how the car was cared for. Despite mine also having a FSH, I've found jobs that needed doing, so I have been tackling them slow time. Nothing major, just getting it back to driving like a newer car. A lot of that is because service intervals are so stretched nowadays, and people so reluctant to spend money unless a part has actually failed, that the the tag of full service history might not mean what you think it means.
For the record, some of the jobs I've done are a new Bosch MAF (you would be amazed the difference it makes, even though the old one hadn't failed or giving trouble) and a new timing belt/aux belt/aux idler/alternator clutch bearing. What a difference, it pulls like a train and is quiet and smooth from stone cold. It certainly doesn't drive like a nigh on 100k car, lets put it that way.
I accept that as time and miles move on, I'll have little jobs to do on a regular basis and I'm fine with that. if you have the same attitude, you'll be fine.
The gamble is, that even with a FSH you still don't know how the car was cared for. Despite mine also having a FSH, I've found jobs that needed doing, so I have been tackling them slow time. Nothing major, just getting it back to driving like a newer car. A lot of that is because service intervals are so stretched nowadays, and people so reluctant to spend money unless a part has actually failed, that the the tag of full service history might not mean what you think it means.
For the record, some of the jobs I've done are a new Bosch MAF (you would be amazed the difference it makes, even though the old one hadn't failed or giving trouble) and a new timing belt/aux belt/aux idler/alternator clutch bearing. What a difference, it pulls like a train and is quiet and smooth from stone cold. It certainly doesn't drive like a nigh on 100k car, lets put it that way.
I accept that as time and miles move on, I'll have little jobs to do on a regular basis and I'm fine with that. if you have the same attitude, you'll be fine.
I've just had the same 'discussion' when my sister-in-law passed her test last month. I found an excellent demo+1 owner from new 14 year old Yaris, genuine reason for sale - heavily pregnant with second child about to be born so needed something bigger. Everything worked, even the AC and it had FSH. I only recommend cars that I have full confidence in.
Her dad waded in saying it was too old so I washed my hands of it all. He's got her a crappy 'newer' 206 that the indicators don't stay on and the speedo works when it wants. POS car.
Her dad waded in saying it was too old so I washed my hands of it all. He's got her a crappy 'newer' 206 that the indicators don't stay on and the speedo works when it wants. POS car.
Years ago, a physics teacher of mine told me that pretty much all consumer electronics was absolute trash and that all the quality components went into aircraft and defence applications etc.
Household electrical appliances are cheaper than ever in real terms these days but their lifespans have radically reduced compared to the same items sold 20-30 years ago.
A car is basically another appliance, but much more complex. I have to wonder how long the masses of electronics being crammed into modern cars will last in the long term. Will there be ANY classic cars in the future which survive to be 30+ years old without being written off for multiple electrical faults??
Having said that, my Mazda 323 was pretty bombproof at 10 years old whereas my Seat Leon had developed numerous issues over the 3 years of my ownership. My current car is 22 years old and probably a whole lot simpler electrically than my previous Seat and Ford, but again things are closer to the end of their natural lifespan so it's a balance between complexity and age.
I think small Japanese cars made in the '90s to early 2000s were maybe the best compromise between simplicity, reliability and still being modern and economical enough to use every day.
Household electrical appliances are cheaper than ever in real terms these days but their lifespans have radically reduced compared to the same items sold 20-30 years ago.
A car is basically another appliance, but much more complex. I have to wonder how long the masses of electronics being crammed into modern cars will last in the long term. Will there be ANY classic cars in the future which survive to be 30+ years old without being written off for multiple electrical faults??
Having said that, my Mazda 323 was pretty bombproof at 10 years old whereas my Seat Leon had developed numerous issues over the 3 years of my ownership. My current car is 22 years old and probably a whole lot simpler electrically than my previous Seat and Ford, but again things are closer to the end of their natural lifespan so it's a balance between complexity and age.
I think small Japanese cars made in the '90s to early 2000s were maybe the best compromise between simplicity, reliability and still being modern and economical enough to use every day.
02 plate Audi A4 1.8t Quattro here and it's faultless. Even the air con is ice cold. Everything works exactly as it should. Look after it clean it and do any little niggles as soon as they arise.
I've had more trouble with new company cars in the first 3 years of life than the old Audi ever gave me.
I've had more trouble with new company cars in the first 3 years of life than the old Audi ever gave me.
xRIEx said:
I think the issue is that people with the attitude of "old cars are going to be lots of trouble" also equate 'servicing and maintenance' with 'trouble'. They are probably knackering the newish cars they're driving, but they change (because it's got too old, obv.) before anything serious breaks. And then their old car breaks before 10 years old, "because it's old." No, you muppet, it's because you didn't look after it.
You have that spot on. In these peoples heads maintenance is something that only old, broken cars require.I purchased a 19 year old Mitsubishi Shogun with 155,000 miles on the clock a year ago, for the sum of £700. I have since put an additional 9,000 on it and have had one mechanical issue over the last year; a sticky brake caliper.
I'm not suggesting you go and buy a £700 s
tter, but it does show you that cars of 20 years (let alone 10) have plenty of life left in them. As long as the thing has been looked after and maintained by the book there is no reason why the age should concern you.
I'm not suggesting you go and buy a £700 s
tter, but it does show you that cars of 20 years (let alone 10) have plenty of life left in them. As long as the thing has been looked after and maintained by the book there is no reason why the age should concern you.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff