997 RMS.............
Discussion
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=179949
Seems the problem is not sorted in the 997.
Seems the problem is not sorted in the 997.
Totally shocked !!!
After all the negative press that they have had on the Boxster and 996, you would have thought this would have been the 1st thing they have sorted out on the 997 !!!
Hope you don't mind, but i'm gonna put the link on the Porsche club site, it will certainly stir up some debate !!!
G.
After all the negative press that they have had on the Boxster and 996, you would have thought this would have been the 1st thing they have sorted out on the 997 !!!
Hope you don't mind, but i'm gonna put the link on the Porsche club site, it will certainly stir up some debate !!!
G.
glenn mcmenamin said:
Totally shocked !!!
After all the negative press that they have had on the Boxster and 996, you would have thought this would have been the 1st thing they have sorted out on the 997 !!!
Hope you don't mind, but i'm gonna put the link on the Porsche club site, it will certainly stir up some debate !!!
G.
I've never heard of anything in the press about RMS, only come across the problem in the tiny world of internet bb's
bumcrack said:
I've never heard of anything in the press about RMS, only come across the problem in the tiny world of internet bb's
That's true actually. Why aren't Evo etc shining a greater light on this problem. We all know that TVR's have a reputation that is added to every time the press drive one as in "great car but..." Why aren't they saying the same about Porsche?
When they are driving the cars the chances are the RMS is not leaking, but shouldn't there be large caveats saying "Get shifted before your warranty runs out"
The fact that Porsche havn't solved this problem with the 997 and new Boxster is verging on the rediculous - cue long extended warranties!
Phil
I was trying to say I don't thinks it’s a big a problem as some people are making out. The internet has a way of recycling stories over and over. The 996 and Boxster were sold in very large numbers compared to earlier Porsche models, so pro rata you'll have more problems anyway.
Bad news travels faster than good, when was the last time an owner posted saying "my car has no problems at all".
On bb's like this Porsche owners only post problems, what I'm trying to say is you get a very negative view because every body that hasn't got RMS issues doesn't bother writing about it.
I'm sure someone will reply saying I got my head in the sand, I just think it’s not much of an issues in the great scheme of things.
Bad news travels faster than good, when was the last time an owner posted saying "my car has no problems at all".
On bb's like this Porsche owners only post problems, what I'm trying to say is you get a very negative view because every body that hasn't got RMS issues doesn't bother writing about it.
I'm sure someone will reply saying I got my head in the sand, I just think it’s not much of an issues in the great scheme of things.
BliarOut said:
Would be interesting to find out the TOTAL number of RMS replacements carried out to see how big a percentage of cars are affected.
The Porsche Club Boxster section did a survey on this very issue. I know, I replied to the questionnaire they sent me in the post last year. I don't know the results of the survey, perhaps someone wants to e-mail the register secretary and find out?
The survey results should be in the magazine soon, but early indications on the club forum are around 9% of 996 had this oil leak. It is covered under warranty and is replaced with only 8 people in this survey reporting subsequent leaks, so it does look to be very minor (but pretty major to those 8 
).
Put in context, virtually all cars leak oil to some extent (look at car park floors) and Porsche is no exception. My own 944 does, we all know the history of 964 leaks and also the earlier 911's. As long as it's not dozens of litres between service or the leak is contaminating other parts then just live with it and top it up as has been done for decades.
My personal view is that Porsche are cheaper now, more readily available and more and more people are driving them everyday. All of this means the mileage goes up quickly and the leaks appear to be more common than is historically the case. The proliferation of Internet bulletin boards means we all hear when someone has a problem and so the story goes around.
). Put in context, virtually all cars leak oil to some extent (look at car park floors) and Porsche is no exception. My own 944 does, we all know the history of 964 leaks and also the earlier 911's. As long as it's not dozens of litres between service or the leak is contaminating other parts then just live with it and top it up as has been done for decades.
My personal view is that Porsche are cheaper now, more readily available and more and more people are driving them everyday. All of this means the mileage goes up quickly and the leaks appear to be more common than is historically the case. The proliferation of Internet bulletin boards means we all hear when someone has a problem and so the story goes around.
Rennlist said:
My understanding is that the 996-997 NA motor has the crank bearings carried by a sub-assembly to the block. This subassembly seems to be drifting the crank away from being concentric with the block crank bore. I can see no logical fix for this except to redesign the entire block to carry the crank mains as one unit. In other words a completely new ground-up motor design.
so the RMS leak is not just another oil leak but a symptom of a serious design flaw causing a major problem. If 9% of engines have RMS failure then 9% of engines are out of specification and are failing. Replacing the RMS is just papering over the cracks until the warrenty runs out. There is no fix for the underlying problem except a new engine which runs a 9% chance of having the same problem.
Porsche didn't use this botton end on the GT3 racers or turbos for good reason.
Would you buy a car that has a 9% chance of having a failed engine that cannot be repaired?
tony.t said:
My understanding is that the 996-997 NA motor has the crank bearings carried by a sub-assembly to the block. This subassembly seems to be drifting the crank away from being concentric with the block crank bore. I can see no logical fix for this except to redesign the entire block to carry the crank mains as one unit. In other words a completely new ground-up motor design.
so the RMS leak is not just another oil leak but a symptom of a serious design flaw causing a major problem. If 9% of engines have RMS failure then 9% of engines are out of specification and are failing. Replacing the RMS is just papering over the cracks until the warrenty runs out. There is no fix for the underlying problem except a new engine which runs a 9% chance of having the same problem.
Porsche didn't use this botton end on the GT3 racers or turbos for good reason.
Would you buy a car that has a 9% chance of having a failed engine that cannot be repaired?
TVR Tuscan buyers don't seem to mind
I'd be surprised if 15% of all the people who bought Boxster or the 996 joined the Porsche owners club. I could be wrong I just don't see this type of demographic being too interested in bb's and owners clubs at all.
For a lot of owners of the newer Porsches it's a status symbol and not a driving machine, unlike the 993 which attracts the, shall we say the' enthusiast' to be kind.
What’s needed is the a figure of total number of cars sold and every owner to be contacted and asked about RMS, this is the only way to get an accurate picture of the real extent of the RMS issue. Of course this is never going to happen.
A cross section of bb’s or owners clubs is only a myopic slice of the whole pie and is only focused on the complaints, not on the vast majority of happy Porsche owners who don’t spend hours geeking at Piston Heads worrying about their cars.
For a lot of owners of the newer Porsches it's a status symbol and not a driving machine, unlike the 993 which attracts the, shall we say the' enthusiast' to be kind.
What’s needed is the a figure of total number of cars sold and every owner to be contacted and asked about RMS, this is the only way to get an accurate picture of the real extent of the RMS issue. Of course this is never going to happen.
A cross section of bb’s or owners clubs is only a myopic slice of the whole pie and is only focused on the complaints, not on the vast majority of happy Porsche owners who don’t spend hours geeking at Piston Heads worrying about their cars.
verysideways said:
Think my 993's depreciation just slowed somewhat
ditto...
To be honest I don't think many prospective 997 buyers will be considering a 10 year old 993 as an alternative - I think it is more likely to be the baby Aston, SL55, Maser etc.
Its like saying the E46 M3's engine failures has a positive impact on the E30 M3's residuals... It didn't, nor did it have any impact on the E36 M3.
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