944/928 Fuel Economy

[dern]

Does anyone know know what a 944 s2 and 924 s2/4 return fuel economy wise in everyday use please? My current 2.5 lux 944 gives me roughly 25 I'd say.

Thanks,

Mark

[Buster44]

I get roughly 25mpg on a S2 - mix of daily commute (16 miles one way), urban etc. I have got a heavy right foot! Friend of mine who previously had one also got similar mpg

[Thom]

My 944 S2 has been requiring an average 28 mpg in the 42,000 miles of ownership, mostly used for reasonably quick country crosses. It won't get better than 28 MPG anywhere below 4000 rpm but will fall well below above 4000 rpm (that's around 110 mph in 5th).

[dern]

Thanks very much guys.

Anyone got a 928 (especially a manual one) that they can let me know about?

The reason I'm asking is that I have a 2.5 lux 944 that I love but I'd like something a bit quicker and something with seat belts in the back. It handles brilliantly and gets across country very swiftly but isn't properly fast if you know what I mean. I really like the look of 928s but a mag article I read yesterday suggests that they return 15mpg which I'm not entirely sure I can justify as this is my main commuting car and spends quite a bit of time in traffic hence the question on the backup plan, the s2.

I do all my own servicing and repairs by the way so petrol is the main cost by far.

Regards,

Mark

>> Edited by dern on Friday 14th January 10:17

[Thom]

Several 928 S4/CS/GT-owning relations have reported a respectable 21 mpg as an average, but none of them use their cars everyday, and as little as possible in urban areas. 15 mpg sounds more like the worst possible figure for road use, like a GTS performing countless start-stops in heavy traffic.

I loved the last three 928s I drove, S2, GT and GTS.
S2 felt like a big 944 2.5 : efficient but a bit raw and shaky compared to later cars.
GT felt like a big 944 S2 : exactly the same general behaviour with slightly better everything. The 928 GT is a 1.5 scale 944 S2.
GTS felt like an overweight 928 GT with an over-stretched engine. Having driven it just after the GT, I was a bit disappointed.

16" rims make the car more fun to drive, makes the steering offering better feedback. GTS felt like a lorry, unsensitive to road variations but all the more stable and efficient. Performance-wise I could not feel much difference between the GT and the GTS, probably as the GTS weighs quite more, although the GTS engine has big torque just about everywhere in the rev range unlike the GT's. The GT engine did not feel sluggish either but was more rewarding to rev, just like a scaled-up 944 S2 engine.

The main difference between the 944 and the 928 is obviously that fantastic "Weissach" rear axle. At legal speeds I could not feel any understeer whatsoever. In any given corners all three 928s felt like swiveling around their center. That superb cornering behaviour somehow makes the 928 feel lighter than a 944 in a corner, although it is a quite heavier car.

If you like your 944 you should love the 928 unless you expect something radically different. However I'm afraid that using such a big car as a heavy traffic commuter may suit neither it nor yourself. These are definitely no Micras.

All IMO.

>> Edited by Thom on Friday 14th January 11:01

[dern]

Thom said:

If you like your 944 you should love the 928 unless you expect something radically different. However I'm afraid that using such a big car as a heavy traffic commuter may suit neither it nor yourself. These are definitely no Micras.

That's great, thanks for your insight Thom

I'm under no illusions that these cars will be as easy to drive as our mondeo but have been using my lux to commute in for a year and like the relatively heavy feel. My 944 hasn't taken to my current 3 mile commute all that well and needs a blast every now and again to clear it out (don't we all) but I'm only here for a couple more months and then a longer commute is back on the cards. That's the only thing that concerns me about 15mpg... in a couple of months I may be doing a 70 mile each way commute for 6 months, it's all a bit of a lottery where I end up working.

What I basically want is my lux but faster. Maybe an s2 would be more suited to that but have always loved 928s. I need to drive them obviously but didn't want to fall in love with a 928 and then find I couldn't afford to run it (or indeed justify running it). I suppose I could get a cheap car to commute in too but I've done that in the past and I didn't like driving a cr*p car leaving the decent car at home, if I have a car I'd rather just use it.

Regards,

Mark

[danielw]

I have a 928GT having migrated from a 944S2 about a year ago. From my point of view it is a one way trip, i.e. everything about the 928 seems to be an improvement on the 944. Seats, engine, noise, road presence, performance, computer etc... There could be no going back.

Fuel economy is a slightly different story. Crawling (5-15 mph) across central London I have seen 9/10 mgp... Also, the economy improves when the engine is warm. Cold short runs in traffic are not economic.

Motorway cruising is fine 25mpg at 70/80mph, judicious foot down accelerating hard does *show* 4/5 mpg which (as well as speed) discourages such behaviour sharphish. However long runs in the UK / across Europe dont seem much less efficient than my 944S2.

The hatch/boot space is slightly less flexible than the 944, there's no way I could get two mountain bikes inside the 928!

My major problem with the 928GT is what to buy next!

[Thom]

Mark, you are welcome.

I guess a 944 S2 would fill in your situation better. That is the closer you will get to a 928 ... to my great frustration, as I personally cannot justify upgrading to a 928 as my S2 does almost everything the 928 does. What's more, if a 928 GT is a 1.5 scale 944 S2, running costs are at least twice that of the 944 if I want everything well tight and clean like on my S2. That is not good in favor of purchasing a 928 ...

The 944 S2 is supposed to offer better fuel economy than the 2.5, will be a bit more fun to play with thanks to better wheels & brakes. The 3.0 engine is definitely the better engine, feels less asthmatic in traffic than the 2.5 as well as being a genuine wide spaces performer.

The "problem" is you will certainly still want a 928 after the S2 ...

>> Edited by Thom on Friday 14th January 11:49

[dern]

danielw said:

The hatch/boot space is slightly less flexible than the 944, there's no way I could get two mountain bikes inside the 928!

Ah, good point. I carry a kayak in my 944 (I used to have to carry it on the roof - see profile - but the new boat goes inside)... can you get a roofrack for a 928? Do they have roof gutters?

Mark

>> Edited by dern on Friday 14th January 11:52

[Hammerhead]

Thom, great description of the 928. Probably the best I've read anywhere (including all the PCar mags).

Steve

[cheburator]

I have a 928 S2 with a manual gearbox from a GTS. Of course I am biased, but a 1986 S2 with its 16v engine and well set-up suspension/brakes from an S4 is your best bet v.s. S4, GT or GTS. A few reasons:

1. The S2 4.7l 16v engines are more rorty and camy. You get more driving feel as they are "rawer". Significantly easier and cheaper to work on than the later 32v 5.0 litre motors. You drop 10-15bhp and the torque curve is steeper. But, hey, you still have 310-20bhp on tap.

2. Twin-disc clutch, which although difficult to adjust is bullet proof. S4 have a single plate clutch, which is not that good.

3. You benefit from the S4 slightly wider track and 4-pot amazing Brembos.

4. Price - a well looked after 1986 S2 will set you back £6K and it really will be an absolute minter. An 1987 S4 will cost at least £8K, whilst GTs are in the £10s.

Speak to Paul Anderson at [url]www.928spares.co.uk[/url]. His mobile is [phone]. If there is anybody in the UK who knows the 928, then that's him. Paul currently drives the fastest 928 in the country - 13.8 at Santa Pod - in a manual 1981 S. Chris Sanderson at Loe Bank Motors in Bury is the other 928 Guru. His number is [phone]. He drives one of the best GTs around.

BTW, I get around 21mpg on the M-way at 90mph and around 12mpg in Central London. It is thursty, but the closest you'd ever get to experiencing the wall of torque of a 928 is in a 944 Turbo... I am sorry, but the 944 S2 does not even come close...

Try also the following:

[url]http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/928gb/[/url]
[url]www.928.org.uk[/url]

[Thom]

cheburator said:

It is thursty, but the closest you'd ever get to experiencing the wall of torque of a 928 is in a 944 Turbo... I am sorry, but the 944 S2 does not even come close...

In terms of "well rounded & homogenous package" the 944 S2 is the closest to a 928 GT, and this is what I am talking about, hence the use of the notion of "scales" in my words.
Now if we are childishly talking about straight line performance and torque delivery any road car built by Porsche until the 993 TT (except the 959) gets smoked by a late 944 turbo with a £200 300 bhp kit.

Hammerhead, thank you.
If you feel like reading the whole report it's here

>> Edited by Thom on Friday 14th January 16:28

[dern]

cheburator said:

I have a 928 S2 with a manual gearbox from a GTS. Of course I am biased, but a 1986 S2 with its 16v engine and well set-up suspension/brakes from an S4 is your best bet v.s. S4, GT or GTS. A few reasons: 1. The S2 4.7l 16v engines are more rorty and camy. You get more driving feel as they are "rawer". Significantly easier and cheaper to work on than the later 32v 5.0 litre motors. You drop 10-15bhp and the torque curve is steeper. But, hey, you still have 310-20bhp on tap. 2. Twin-disc clutch, which although difficult to adjust is bullet proof. S4 have a single plate clutch, which is not that good. 3. You benefit from the S4 slightly wider track and 4-pot amazing Brembos. 4. Price - a well looked after 1986 S2 will set you back £6K and it really will be an absolute minter. An 1987 S4 will cost at least £8K, whilst GTs are in the £10s.

There's a 82 s2 manual on autotrader in black with 73k miles on it for 4k. No history but current owner has had it for 2 years and his mate had it for a number of years before hand. Current owner is a garage owner (sales) and mate does servicing for the garage. Car just had 4 new tyres, new belts and rollers and new head gaskets (not caused by over heating but a crack in one head which they had welded and skimmed). He doesn't believe it's had a clutch. I got the impression the sale is a private one rather than a trade sale although the ad is marked as trade as he seemed more keen to move on the price than on offering a warranty. The guy seemed ok on the phone, not dismissive and not overly gushy about the car.

Don't mind the lack of SH because I won't lose the money I would have paid for it when I service it myself assuming it looks in good order.

Any impressions from the description as I was told over the phone and anything I should check if I go to see it?

Thanks,

Mark

[cheburator]

Sorry Thom,

I am not dissing the 944 S2 at all. In fact I am buying one for my dad's 50th this year. It is a cracking package! I guess it is just me that wants the kick in the back when I press the loud pedal and the 928 delivers more of the above.

[verysideways]

dern said:

Any impressions from the description as I was told over the phone and anything I should check if I go to see it?

Make sure everything works.
928 electrics can be funny, and funny can turn into expensive.

[dern]

verysideways said:

928 electrics can be funny, and funny can turn into expensive.

I used to have a tvr and a westfield... how bad can it be?

On a serious note, I take your point though.

Cheers,

Mark

[cheburator]

dern said:

There's a 82 s2 manual on autotrader in black with 73k miles on it for 4k. No history but current owner has had it for 2 years and his mate had it for a number of years before hand. Current owner is a garage owner (sales) and mate does servicing for the garage. Car just had 4 new tyres, new belts and rollers and new head gaskets (not caused by over heating but a crack in one head which they had welded and skimmed). He doesn't believe it's had a clutch. I got the impression the sale is a private one rather than a trade sale although the ad is marked as trade as he seemed more keen to move on the price than on offering a warranty. The guy seemed ok on the phone, not dismissive and not overly gushy about the car. Don't mind the lack of SH because I won't lose the money I would have paid for it when I service it myself assuming it looks in good order. Any impressions from the description as I was told over the phone and anything I should check if I go to see it? Thanks, Mark

There was no S2 in 1982. The car must be a S with 4.7l and 300Bhp, mechanical fuel injection. Good package all together. But I don't like the sound of a cracked head. At 4K he is having a laugh... You can have mine, which is a 1984 S2 with FSH, a top-end rebuilt, upgraded suspension and gearbox etc for 5K if you get my drift... Not that I am selling it. Speak to Paul A - apparently he has a lovely 86 S2 Manual for a silly price...

[dern]

cheburator said:

There was no S2 in 1982. The car must be a S with 4.7l and 300Bhp, mechanical fuel injection. Good package all together. But I don't like the sound of a cracked head. At 4K he is having a laugh... You can have mine, which is a 1984 S2 with FSH, a top-end rebuilt, upgraded suspension and gearbox etc for 5K if you get my drift... Not that I am selling it. Speak to Paul A - apparently he has a lovely 86 S2 Manual for a silly price...

Blimey, ok... I thought it was cheap.

I really need to do my homework when work is a bit less hectic rather than rushing out to buy cars just because work is hectic

Thanks very much for all the pointers.

Regards,

Mark