Tax payer and £1000,000 per fatality query
Discussion
YO,
A chap from Anglesey, writing in yesterdays' Daily Post in support of Arrive Alive, makes the blanket claim that driving at 38 in a 30 limit is always dangerous, then claims that they were set up to save lives and every road fatality costs the tax-payer £1 million.
Now, if I was crossed off tomorrow, I reckon £2K to box me up and plant me; anyone know where the other £998,000 is spent?
Presumably ambulance, police and fire rescue staff are paid the same whether they are scraping me off the windscreen or sitting in the canteen having a well-earned break.
Now, if I was seriously injured, I can see how these sums might be achieved but dead is dead. Finis.
Is he writing total tish?
A chap from Anglesey, writing in yesterdays' Daily Post in support of Arrive Alive, makes the blanket claim that driving at 38 in a 30 limit is always dangerous, then claims that they were set up to save lives and every road fatality costs the tax-payer £1 million.
Now, if I was crossed off tomorrow, I reckon £2K to box me up and plant me; anyone know where the other £998,000 is spent?
Presumably ambulance, police and fire rescue staff are paid the same whether they are scraping me off the windscreen or sitting in the canteen having a well-earned break.
Now, if I was seriously injured, I can see how these sums might be achieved but dead is dead. Finis.
Is he writing total tish?
) I seem to remember that the "total cost" per fatal RTC was actually about £1.13 million "to society".
It covers the obvious costs of things like Emergency services wages, a proportion of capital and running costs/infrastructure, plus training of staff and specialits in each discipline (Police Accident Investigator, Fire chief at scene, surgeon at hospital, barristers at court etc etc).
The other portion was calcualted as the average costs eg no breadwinner, state having to pay benefits to NoK, increases in insurance premiums, knock on economic effects of road closure/lack of disposable income/tax payments from deceased etc etc.
It's not an actual figure, rather a total cost of all the elements, produced for simplicity's sake.
Hope that's clear, it's quite a difficult concept to get across, although it was explained to me so that even I understood it...
It covers the obvious costs of things like Emergency services wages, a proportion of capital and running costs/infrastructure, plus training of staff and specialits in each discipline (Police Accident Investigator, Fire chief at scene, surgeon at hospital, barristers at court etc etc).
The other portion was calcualted as the average costs eg no breadwinner, state having to pay benefits to NoK, increases in insurance premiums, knock on economic effects of road closure/lack of disposable income/tax payments from deceased etc etc.
It's not an actual figure, rather a total cost of all the elements, produced for simplicity's sake.
Hope that's clear, it's quite a difficult concept to get across, although it was explained to me so that even I understood it...
A while ago I read of a similar claim and a very large part of the figure was a valuation for "grieving". How the hell they do that is beyond me. Indeed when they try factoring in finacial values/costs for such things it takes all credibility from the final calculation.
In addition to this, as has been identified already, many of the costs are forgone/fixed, things such as training, capital costs etc do not arise as a result of one incident.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Friday 14th January 17:46
In addition to this, as has been identified already, many of the costs are forgone/fixed, things such as training, capital costs etc do not arise as a result of one incident.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Friday 14th January 17:46
Dibble said:
I seem to remember that the "total cost" per fatal RTC was actually about £1.13 million "to society".
It covers the obvious costs of things like Emergency services wages, a proportion of capital and running costs/infrastructure, plus training of staff and specialits in each discipline (Police Accident Investigator, Fire chief at scene, surgeon at hospital, barristers at court etc etc).
The other portion was calcualted as the average costs eg no breadwinner, state having to pay benefits to NoK, increases in insurance premiums, knock on economic effects of road closure/lack of disposable income/tax payments from deceased etc etc.
It's not an actual figure, rather a total cost of all the elements, produced for simplicity's sake.
Hope that's clear, it's quite a difficult concept to get across, although it was explained to me so that even I understood it...
So running over a single unemployed person is the most cost effective casualty?
I think that accountants can make anything look like anything .
It's a nonsence number really isn't it.
you could ask 'how much does having people waiting at traffic lights when nothing is coming' cost society, in terms of cars using fuel and going nowhere, polution (which has a very interesting slant after last nights program on global dimming!), wasted man hours, etc etc etc.
You can create any number for anything. give it a try!
Using it to justify something as serious as road safety is, in my opinion, a little sick.
Serious issues should have serious plain facts and figures, not someones interpretation.
T2000 annoys me.
eg.
Q why is going over the speed limit dangerous.
A fact: speed kills.
That isn't a fact, it's an opinion. If it were fact then motorways would be strewn with mangled bodies for their entire length. - they aren't.
I read on either this thread or someother, that BiB now only attend 'fast' road accidents, or Fatals.
From that we see that a Bib's experience of road accidents are almost all serious ones.
It MUST bias a Bib's view of RTA's.
on a different topic I remember a recovery firm, who'd just recovered a stolen and abandoned Nova stating that 'Nova's are always getting TWOC'd'
BUT Nova's don't. It's just that he notices it all the time because of his job.
god I must be bored at work! :-)
It's a nonsence number really isn't it.
you could ask 'how much does having people waiting at traffic lights when nothing is coming' cost society, in terms of cars using fuel and going nowhere, polution (which has a very interesting slant after last nights program on global dimming!), wasted man hours, etc etc etc.
You can create any number for anything. give it a try!
Using it to justify something as serious as road safety is, in my opinion, a little sick.
Serious issues should have serious plain facts and figures, not someones interpretation.
T2000 annoys me.
eg.
Q why is going over the speed limit dangerous.
A fact: speed kills.
That isn't a fact, it's an opinion. If it were fact then motorways would be strewn with mangled bodies for their entire length. - they aren't.
I read on either this thread or someother, that BiB now only attend 'fast' road accidents, or Fatals.
From that we see that a Bib's experience of road accidents are almost all serious ones.
It MUST bias a Bib's view of RTA's.
on a different topic I remember a recovery firm, who'd just recovered a stolen and abandoned Nova stating that 'Nova's are always getting TWOC'd'
BUT Nova's don't. It's just that he notices it all the time because of his job.
god I must be bored at work! :-)
Dibble said:
It covers the obvious costs of things like Emergency services wages, a proportion of capital and running costs/infrastructure, plus training of staff and specialits in each discipline (Police Accident Investigator, Fire chief at scene, surgeon at hospital, barristers at court etc etc).
Quite so.
These costs are there regardless of whether an injury accident occurs, so it's dishonest to attribute them to an incident.
This dumb government doesn't seem to see that cost accounting is relevant to manufacturing...not road accidents.
Am puzzled! why on earth would you take into account the 'cost of emergency services' when that is exactly the job they are paid to do?? If no-one had accidents and lived lives in a protective bubble, surely there'd be no need for emergency services and those employed would be out of a job!! Anyway, I thought that these days, our insurance covers the cost of treatment for road accidents!
Tonyrec said:
wedge girl said:
So, the more road deaths we have they cheaper they become?
Or less road deaths means we need fewer police, ambulance workers doctors and nurses civil servants etc
Less Road deaths means only one thing...more Scameras
We're getting more reguardless of death rate
chris watton said:
Am puzzled! why on earth would you take into account the 'cost of emergency services' when that is exactly the job they are paid to do?? If no-one had accidents and lived lives in a protective bubble, surely there'd be no need for emergency services and those employed would be out of a job!! Anyway, I thought that these days, our insurance covers the cost of treatment for road accidents!
Nope...your taxes cover the majority of the costs....
As for doing what they're paid to do...yes the police are paid to sort out the aftermath of fatal RTCs. However, while doing that, we can't deal with road rage, mobile phone whilst driving merchants, chavscum racing around housing estates, middle-lane hoggers etc etc....
Roadcop said:
...yes the police are paid to sort out the aftermath of fatal RTCs. However, while doing that, we can't deal with mobile phone whilst driving merchants...
Hmm, I do wish we could have less RTCs, fatal or otherwise, but as for the mobile phone factor, all I can say is
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Hiya Dave.
Hope you're well this weekend..
I know you're a fan of the drive and talk on mobile phone..
However, it's one of the laws that I swore to uphold (amongst many others) and one that upsets/annoys many people...
I'm just salivating in anticipation of it being made an endorsable offence later in the year..
Gary
Hope you're well this weekend..
I know you're a fan of the drive and talk on mobile phone..
However, it's one of the laws that I swore to uphold (amongst many others) and one that upsets/annoys many people...
I'm just salivating in anticipation of it being made an endorsable offence later in the year..
Gary
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