I say!!! TWO locked threads in as many days???

[just dave]

Did I hit the "Kit Car" forum by mistake?? Is it the lack of dry roads and not seeing the sun??

Go on, fire up the beasts and just go around the block, you will feel better.

Dave

[jem]

crikey!

and I thought that it was just jolly banter...

you should read the sailing anarchy forums [note to ed, v nice design and you can see who is logged on at the time, useful].

somewhere that manages to work very well despite the odd international slanging match, but threads VERY rarely get locked.

seems somewhat over censorious. and I just thought that we were turning a corner in the discssion too...

J

[SXS]

I think the mods and ted have seen topics go too far, and I believe they stop it before it gets that far, not good for the image of pistonheads, we're all sensible, but a person 'not knowing' the community comes on and reads these topics will get the wrong idea, and Pistonhads will get dogged like other automotive forums... this is a serious site and the only highly respected WORD on automotive matters in the UK - and we need to collectively keep this standard, so far the mods and ted have done a great job to keep the 'kids' and those with a 'spark plug less than an engine' out and at bay - and we need to not respond to these kind of posts and ignore them, a little email to a mod to remove a post from a good topic is the best way forward, and the mods are understanding and will help in avoiding locking genuine threads. (Plus dont forget, there are also legal implications when derogatory posts are made on a site that has such a wide audience! Its a free country, but not a free law!)

[anonymous-user]

It's up to 3 now.

These forums are being ruined by non TVR people who fancy a pop at anything to do with the S6 engined cars. Aint that right Mungo.

Of course they all think it's down to us S6 owners taking offence at their peurile banter...................................

[trooperiziz]

unrepentant said:

It's up to 3 now. These forums are being ruined by non TVR people who fancy a pop at anything to do with the S6 engined cars. Aint that right Mungo. Of course they all think it's down to us S6 owners taking offence at their peurile banter...................................

How about everybody just grows up and stops trying to score petty points on every thread?

[bjwoods]

unrepentant said:

It's up to 3 now. These forums are being ruined by non TVR people who fancy a pop at anything to do with the S6 engined cars. Aint that right Mungo. Of course they all think it's down to us S6 owners taking offence at their peurile banter...................................

PLease grow up.

This is not JUST a 'rabid' TVR owners only site.

It is not helping anyone to keep denying there is OR has been a question with theS6 engine, in fact bringing the info into the light odf day has helped many people make sensible descision when buying thge cars, PLUS HELPED people when things have gone wrong, allowing them to put pressure on the dealers and TVR to sort things out Free of charge.

Surely the purpose of this community...

Personally I have owned TVR's for over 10 years, I would still like to get a tuscan (AS WELLL as my Griff) but I want to go into it eyes wide open, and untill now there has been a sufficeint question mark to put nme off an S6, wrightly or wrongly, the perception is there.

Looking at your profile you say you like to start arguments for practice, fine, BUT it is getting very tiresome, please take personaly vendettas elsewhere.

For the record I am both a Seat Leon Cupra driver, AND a TVR Griffith owner. Reading your previous comments about Seat drivers, I would like to think all enthusiatic car owners, whether they drive a trabant or a Mclaren F1 are equally welcome on this site, and have equally interetsing things to contribute.

You see to equate importance with the value of your car, well their are a number of people on this site with cars worth vastly more than yours, BUT they don't have the attitude you seem to have.. they are not slagging off 'cheap plasticky blackpool rubbish'

I am all for friendly banter, but you have beeen offensive recently, having a personal dig at another member at every opportunity, and I for one am getting bored with reading threads, where abuse keeps popping up.


Please behave if the relative strangers you are talking to here, are standing next to you in a pub.

Thanks

B

>> Edited by bjwoods on Saturday 15th January 20:07

[just trouble]

Ted I think you should lock away this thread.JT

[bugsy]

NOOOO
Don't stop the threads,it's entertaining.
The only time I cringe a bit is when it gets
personal but I think there are occasions when
certain persons get rather on their high
horse and others cannot resist pricking their
bubble, that's no bad thing.

>> Edited by bugsy on Saturday 15th January 20:44

[jem]

That's an interesting issue about liable and the internet.

As I mentioned, I often use sailing anarchy where language far in excess of the S6 thread is used, it is a US site tho and dunno if that makes a difference.

Aside the utility or manners of/not posting such things, I'd be interested if anyone knows the current legal position re [percieved] nasty words delivered in a forum such as this.

J

[bjwoods]

bugsy said:

NOOOO Don't stop the threads,it's entertaining. The only time I cringe a bit is when it gets personal but I think there are occasions when certain persons get rather on their high horse and others cannot resist pricking their bubble, that's no bad thing. >> Edited by bugsy on Saturday 15th January 20:44

I agree, But their is a line between banter, and being abusive.

The threads I am refering to (if you have seen them) are personally abusive, and they did not have any banter, just abuse aimed at someone , who had only contributed their (different) opinion (in a non offensive way)

Legal issues a side, I personally would like the forums to stay 'friendly'.


B

>> Edited by bjwoods on Saturday 15th January 21:01

>> Edited by bjwoods on Saturday 15th January 21:07

[bugsy]

True
I was being a bit flippant, its easy for me
to enjoy the blood and gore if the barbs are not
aimed at me but the undeserving recepiants of the nasty stuff would not concur, however I would say
that it takes two to tango and when somebody takes
the piddle, it could be ignored to stop the situation
getting out of hand. IMHO

[jem]

does it really ever get 'out of hand'?

Don't people just look like arses when they let rip with attacks?

J

[anonymous-user]

bjwoods said:

It is not helping anyone to keep denying there is OR has been a question with theS6 engine, in fact bringing the info into the light odf day has helped many people make sensible descision when buying thge cars, PLUS HELPED people when things have gone wrong, allowing them to put pressure on the dealers and TVR to sort things out Free of charge. You see to equate importance with the value of your car, well their are a number of people on this site with cars worth vastly more than yours, BUT they don't have the attitude you seem to have..

I've never denied the problems. There have been horrendous problems and they have not been handled well in my opinion.I'm just sick and tired, as are a lot of other S6 owners, of people with no experience of the cars coming on here and slagging them off. I point out that I have not had problems and I am flamed for being unrealistic when all I am doing is recounting fact.

If you read my thread "what's happening to us" you will see that I truly regret the way the Tuscan forum in particular has degenerated from a useful forum to a slanging match. What should we do? Ignore the trolls and let talk of "chocolate engines" go unanswered? Frankly that's what I think I will do from now on because I can't be arsed anymore.

As for values, one of my favourite all time cars, and one I bitterly regret selling, was my Fiat 124 spyder, which cost me relatively little.

Paul

[grahamw48]

Quote:

You see to equate importance with the value of your car, well their are a number of people on this site with cars worth vastly more than yours, BUT they don't have the attitude you seem to have.. they are not slagging off 'cheap plasticky blackpool rubbish' Unquote.

I suppose it depends upon how much debt you want.

[bjwoods]

unrepentant said:

bjwoods said: It is not helping anyone to keep denying there is OR has been a question with theS6 engine, in fact bringing the info into the light odf day has helped many people make sensible descision when buying thge cars, PLUS HELPED people when things have gone wrong, allowing them to put pressure on the dealers and TVR to sort things out Free of charge. You see to equate importance with the value of your car, well their are a number of people on this site with cars worth vastly more than yours, BUT they don't have the attitude you seem to have.. I've never denied the problems. There have been horrendous problems and they have not been handled well in my opinion.I'm just sick and tired, as are a lot of other S6 owners, of people with no experience of the cars coming on here and slagging them off. I point out that I have not had problems and I am flamed for being unrealistic when all I am doing is recounting fact. If you read my thread "what's happening to us" you will see that I truly regret the way the Tuscan forum in particular has degenerated from a useful forum to a slanging match. What should we do? Ignore the trolls and let talk of "chocolate engines" go unanswered? Frankly that's what I think I will do from now on because I can't be arsed anymore. As for values, one of my favourite all time cars, and one I bitterly regret selling, was my Fiat 124 spyder, which cost me relatively little. Paul

Excellent civilised post.. I do tend to agree with most of what you say...

Whilst chocolate engines may be too strong, in the past TVR never had any really major engine issues, that caused all the controversy, and that is including, the ajp v8's.

What would you advise someone asking whether a low mileage second hand tuscan 2000 - 2001 (no rebuilds), is a good buy or not. At this age and low mileage, I believe thattheir is a strong risk of a LARGE out of pocket rebuild, and the factory says they have withdrawn goodwill.

This is a completely different propsition than someone enquiring after buying a new/newish Tuscan/Tuscan 2 benefiting from a full warranty.

However, while I would be prepared to take the risk of a rebuild on a new car, MY main concern is that it seems to takes many weeks, if not months to get the wwork done. Again, Might be OK if your dealer/TVR stumped up for an eqivalent courtesy car whilst your is off the road, BUT they Don't seem to do this on the whole... (you be lucky to get a fiat/corsa)

SO to me the issue ISN'T really about rebuilds, BUT the Customer Service you experience in light of a problem. All manufacturer's have faults, some embarrasing ones, including porsche, BMW, etc, BUT I've been overwhelmed by the Customer Service, which builds huge good will, with other car manufacturers.

People do make thier own judgement, but if you respond, as you have on occasion, with personal abuse (even if 'provoked'), ie slagging off ALL SEAT owners, just because you do not agree with one in particular, It does your own argument no good.

Regards

B



>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 17th January 11:01

[anonymous-user]

bjwoods said:

unrepentant said: Excellent civilised post.. I do tend to agree with most of what you say... What would you advise someone asking whether a low mileage second hand tuscan 2000 - 2001 (no rebuilds), is a good buy or not. At this age and low mileage, I believe thattheir is a strong risk of a LARGE out of pocket rebuild, and the factory says they have withdrawn goodwill.

The answer is that, never having purchased a second hand Tuscan 2000-2001 with low mileage and no rebuilds I woul not advise them at all.

I would leave the advice to people who have experience of such cars or who are acknowledged experts on such matters.

This is my point all along. Without wishing to stir anything up again, the aforementioned Seat owner has also made comments about the efficiency or otherwise of Porsche and BMW dealers recently (having had experience of neither) and has said that Maseratis are unreliable? having had no experience of them and has accuse TVR dealers af all sorts, again without seemingly had any first hand experience.

I have had experience of TVR, Porsche and BMW dealers and my experience has been positive of all, particularly the former.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion. We can all say that we think X car is attractive / ugly/ whatever but I think to make derogatory and inflammatory remarks about dealers and models with no personal experience of them whatsoever is unnecessary and provocative.

If its meant to be provocative, fine, I'm easily provoked.

[Nick P]

I think that people who have never owned a TVR should not enter the arguments and go drive their Skodas elsewhere

[Ballistic Banana]

mungo said:

unrepentant said: and has accuse TVR dealers af all sorts, again without seemingly had any first hand experience. My ears were burning... Said "Seat owner" used to get his TVR serviced regularly at a South Coast main dealer (who is now no longer a TVR dealer)... Said "Seat owner" also has very close friends with good stories of service from Porsche and BMW dealers Lets put all this behind us Unrepentant, I just don't see the point in it at all... you are lucky enough to have a nice car with a mark 2 version on order which I hope is as reliable for you as your mark 1 version... the S6 in general has issues, we all know that, it's not your fault and it's not mine. I don't intend on having any more online arguments with you and I wish you well with your new Tuscan 2

well said Matt. hat of to you, Lets just get on with some good debates etc without the Displeasantries(sp?)

BB

[Exx]

los angeles said:

The trouble lies in those who post plain abuse - look how smart-assed I am.

You include yourself here do you? (of course that was a question).....

[PatHeald]

mungo said:

unrepentant said: Lots of Stuff Lots of Stuff

You both have a bit to answer for, as Mungo never misses the opportunity to slag off an S6 and Unrepentant seems incapable of registering that the S6 is plainly a niche market product for masochists.

I chose to buy a mint Griffith because of the poor reputation of S6 cars.

Given the premium Griffs attract and the miserable residuals of S6 cars, I could have spent less money and had a Tuscan.

I'm glad I didn't.

My Griffith is the most shoddily built piece of crap imaginable, but at least the TVR input didn't extend to the motor.

The quality of the electrics on my Griffith is so naff it is laughable.

Pull the dash out and look at the heater ducts. My four year old could do better. They are just badly cut aluminium tubes loosely stuffed into flakey fibreglass.

Look at the bonnet. Nasty, wrinkly, single skinned and wobbly as Hell. It makes the bonded, double skinned equivalent on my late sixteen year old Lotus look like it was hewn out of marble.

The Griffith, however, brings such a smile to the face. The fact that a glorified kit car like the Griff can offer performance to shame bone fide supercars is a wonderful thing.

I love the Heath-Robinson giant-killing potential of the beast. It is just a 1990's TR6 with really big bollocks and someone else's engine.

If the same company that signed off the electrics, panel fit and chassis finish of my Griff are capable of designing their own engine, then those that buy one deserve all the luck in the world.

Since I bought my Griffith (with fewer than 5000 miles on the clock) I have spent most weekends finishing off building the bloody thing.

I still love the car, because I can look at the panel gaps on the bootlid, laugh at it, then spend a couple of hours fixing it for the cost of nothing apart from my own time.

God knows what I'd do if the motor kept chewing up cam followers and cylinder heads. Well, actually, He knows perfectly well what I'd do.....

Mungo described modern TVRs as supercars on the cheap. He wasn't wrong.

They may offer all the performance of a supercar at a fraction of the cost, but the trade off is that they have a fraction of the engineering integrity of a proper supercar.

The cost of a Tuscan is half that of a supercar with comparable performance. The saving will pay for any number of expensive mechanical failures that may or may not occur. You pays your money and takes your choice.

The Tuscan is a comparative bargain for the well heeled enthusiast, but an absolute unmitigated disaster for the impecunious enthusiast trying to do the supercar thing on the cheap.

The rewards are great, but the risks are greater.

Do you feel lucky, Punk?