Should I - and would you - join a union?
Discussion
I'm divided. I've recently become a H&S rep in our workplace. Not something I ever thought I'd do, but a few things were less-than-ideal so I had to do something about it.
When signing up, an existing rep recommended - but never pushed, to his credit - that I at least look at joining a (not necessarily his) union, as it'd be a source of support/advice in the new role. I smiled, nodded politely and almost immediately ruled it out, for reasons I'll explain later.
Of course, barely a few days later and I'm up against management, who much to my surprise weren't being massively helpful. Which started me wondering: should I join up? I'll be honest, recent history (think BL, the miners etc, although I'm too young for both) and things at a "political" level makes me think "no". I'm not keen on the whole union/Labour thing, and in the past it's been akin to mob rule in suits under the guide of "for the workers!". Scargill, Reb Robbo, Crow, Mcluskey...no thanks.
BUT
At a "small" scale, i can't help but think they're good to have, as long as they stay away from workplace or wider-scale politics. In previous jobs I've sat in as scribe for disciplinary meetings, and it was good to see "the accused" (as it were) at least have some representation and support which they may not be otherwise able to get. Yes, some were downright "guilty", but others weren't so. And there were times where the employer was plain wrong and/or heavy handed.
Then there's the changes in workers rights throughout history which we've all benefitted from in some way: none of us work in the same conditions as they did in the 1800s!
I know I can't have it both ways: I'm either in or out (or a scab I 'spose!), but...it's difficult. I'd like the support, resources and backing, but I can't stomach the politics.
Yours.
Confused :/
When signing up, an existing rep recommended - but never pushed, to his credit - that I at least look at joining a (not necessarily his) union, as it'd be a source of support/advice in the new role. I smiled, nodded politely and almost immediately ruled it out, for reasons I'll explain later.
Of course, barely a few days later and I'm up against management, who much to my surprise weren't being massively helpful. Which started me wondering: should I join up? I'll be honest, recent history (think BL, the miners etc, although I'm too young for both) and things at a "political" level makes me think "no". I'm not keen on the whole union/Labour thing, and in the past it's been akin to mob rule in suits under the guide of "for the workers!". Scargill, Reb Robbo, Crow, Mcluskey...no thanks.
BUT
At a "small" scale, i can't help but think they're good to have, as long as they stay away from workplace or wider-scale politics. In previous jobs I've sat in as scribe for disciplinary meetings, and it was good to see "the accused" (as it were) at least have some representation and support which they may not be otherwise able to get. Yes, some were downright "guilty", but others weren't so. And there were times where the employer was plain wrong and/or heavy handed.
Then there's the changes in workers rights throughout history which we've all benefitted from in some way: none of us work in the same conditions as they did in the 1800s!
I know I can't have it both ways: I'm either in or out (or a scab I 'spose!), but...it's difficult. I'd like the support, resources and backing, but I can't stomach the politics.
Yours.
Confused :/
Join one I would say. Union provides a point for resources, back-up, training, opportunity to speak with other H&S reps etc.
Your management are also unlikely to be idiots with you when you have to challenge them about things that are their problem.
Also an H&S rep not in a Union tends to be viewed by those they represent as a mangement stooge.
Your management are also unlikely to be idiots with you when you have to challenge them about things that are their problem.
Also an H&S rep not in a Union tends to be viewed by those they represent as a mangement stooge.
tex200 said:
Join one I would say. Union provides a point for resources, back-up, training, opportunity to speak with other H&S reps etc.
Your management are also unlikely to be idiots with you when you have to challenge them about things that are their problem.
Also an H&S rep not in a Union tends to be viewed by those they represent as a mangement stooge.
agree with all the above Your management are also unlikely to be idiots with you when you have to challenge them about things that are their problem.
Also an H&S rep not in a Union tends to be viewed by those they represent as a mangement stooge.
just pick your union carefully and be careful when completing the application over which if any political fund you are paying into , i.e. avoid unions with an affiliated political fund ( as these are the hypocritical unions buying Labour MPs) and if there is no option make sure you opt out of the APF ( and either into the general campaigning fund or opt out of the political contribution in total)
remember just becasue there is a 'recognised' union in a workplace there is nowt stopping you joining another union that covers the type of Industry / business you work in.
Edited by mph1977 on Tuesday 10th March 13:11
tex200 said:
Also an H&S rep not in a Union tends to be viewed by those they represent as a mangement stooge.
I think that depends on the organisation culture. I've recently been in a non-unionised manufacturing place with an established and much improved over the last 2 years EHS committee. 
i felt the same way as you, having grown up seeing, bl, miners etc. used to argue with my dad who was in the union at natwest.
then, i joined natwest and saw the union in action, i was quiet impressed with how it was all sorted out and everyone seemed to be happy.
couple of years later i had the chance to sit on the IT groups arm, and despite what i seen, expected to see a load of belligerent nutters banging on tables demanding the moon on a stick.
what i found was a group who wanted to make sure their members got a fair days pay for a fair days work, and make the bank as profitable as possible as then they could have a bigger chunk of the profits.
having now over the years been involved with a few industrial tribunals because of management not knowing the correct process or legislation etc, the union is a great back-up to people and well worth being in.
i've even been involved with chats down the pub with both sides (not at the same time) and settled the problems there over a pint so it anything official was headed off at the pass, so to speak.
join them, they have access to law specialists etc, i've used them to prove to members that they are in the wrong not the company.
also you can say you don't want your money to go to millibland etc as has been mentioned.
then, i joined natwest and saw the union in action, i was quiet impressed with how it was all sorted out and everyone seemed to be happy.
couple of years later i had the chance to sit on the IT groups arm, and despite what i seen, expected to see a load of belligerent nutters banging on tables demanding the moon on a stick.
what i found was a group who wanted to make sure their members got a fair days pay for a fair days work, and make the bank as profitable as possible as then they could have a bigger chunk of the profits.
having now over the years been involved with a few industrial tribunals because of management not knowing the correct process or legislation etc, the union is a great back-up to people and well worth being in.
i've even been involved with chats down the pub with both sides (not at the same time) and settled the problems there over a pint so it anything official was headed off at the pass, so to speak.
join them, they have access to law specialists etc, i've used them to prove to members that they are in the wrong not the company.
also you can say you don't want your money to go to millibland etc as has been mentioned.
I wouldn't join a union if they paid me.
I was a member some years ago when I worked in a shop floor type role in a big manufacturing company.
It was utterly demoralising seeing around £10 per month go to an organisation that only had one thing in mind - finding ways of keeping a
holes in jobs when the rest of the workforce would have benefitted from them being sacked.
Save your money (unless you're a knob who can only keep a job through union support).
I was a member some years ago when I worked in a shop floor type role in a big manufacturing company.
It was utterly demoralising seeing around £10 per month go to an organisation that only had one thing in mind - finding ways of keeping a
holes in jobs when the rest of the workforce would have benefitted from them being sacked.Save your money (unless you're a knob who can only keep a job through union support).
PorkInsider said:
I wouldn't join a union if they paid me.
I was a member some years ago when I worked in a shop floor type role in a big manufacturing company.
It was utterly demoralising seeing around £10 per month go to an organisation that only had one thing in mind - finding ways of keeping aholes in jobs when the rest of the workforce would have benefitted from them being sacked.
Save your money (unless you're a knob who can only keep a job through union support).
and just hope you never need support for a discip or grievance or need the services of the legal dept ... I was a member some years ago when I worked in a shop floor type role in a big manufacturing company.
It was utterly demoralising seeing around £10 per month go to an organisation that only had one thing in mind - finding ways of keeping a
holes in jobs when the rest of the workforce would have benefitted from them being sacked.Save your money (unless you're a knob who can only keep a job through union support).
PorkInsider said:
I wouldn't join a union if they paid me.
I was a member some years ago when I worked in a shop floor type role in a big manufacturing company.
It was utterly demoralising seeing around £10 per month go to an organisation that only had one thing in mind - finding ways of keeping aholes in jobs when the rest of the workforce would have benefitted from them being sacked.
Save your money (unless you're a knob who can only keep a job through union support).
As a Chartered Manufacturing Engineer, I would see that some of my job is about getting more work done with less labour, in a standard way, so that it is impossible to 'hide' poor work ethic, by smoke and mirrors. I was a member some years ago when I worked in a shop floor type role in a big manufacturing company.
It was utterly demoralising seeing around £10 per month go to an organisation that only had one thing in mind - finding ways of keeping a
holes in jobs when the rest of the workforce would have benefitted from them being sacked.Save your money (unless you're a knob who can only keep a job through union support).
This did not stop me joining APE, the association of professional engineers, which turns out to be part of UNITE.
I joined, some years ago, and didn't need their help until I'd moved into a company, where to my knowledge there were no union members even on the shop floor. One day after I'd been there about 5 months, I had a new boss, who within days had taken a distinct dislike to me, and spent every day making my life a misery. It was clear he was trying to manage me towards dismissal.
Cut a long story short. He seemed surprised when at my hearing, I turned up with representation of a professional nature. She was a little late, as she was Unite's Regional negotiator and had been at Jacobs Biscuit factory meeting with management there.
2 hours later I still had a job.
When there was a 10% cull, about 5 months later, I was of course made redundant in a fair and reasonable manner, which turns out to be the best thing that happened career wise.
LucreLout said:
Unionism is the dogma of failure. It is a bankrupt ideology that exists to enrich only itself through the means of strife and discord.
So, no, I would not join up.
the Unions who purchase the Labour party, while hypocritically saying to others ' tax avoidance is immoral' while saying to their members ' here's how to avoid tax' are a sign of failure So, no, I would not join up.
the none aligned Unions and the Professional associations offer a valuable service to both members and employers ...
They have been there for me a few times during my 20 yr career with the Police. The vast majority of the time just for a bit of advice but needed them once or twice for the odd meeting with management.
At the end of the day they are much maligned for a number of reasons......all of which mean nothing if they actually help you. They are the ones that get terms and conditions sorted..otherwise management could say here's how it is deal with it. They are the ones ones that negotiate pay rises...or again management could say here's what you are getting...deal with it.
They are much maligned.....for me they are well worth it. Spoke them a few times over the years for many reasons.
At the end of the day they are much maligned for a number of reasons......all of which mean nothing if they actually help you. They are the ones that get terms and conditions sorted..otherwise management could say here's how it is deal with it. They are the ones ones that negotiate pay rises...or again management could say here's what you are getting...deal with it.
They are much maligned.....for me they are well worth it. Spoke them a few times over the years for many reasons.
the other thing to remember is that the PH stereotypical Powerfully built borderline sociopathic company director won't want Unions / Professional representation organisations / Staff Association because they might actually have to stick to the rules / follow the law rather than sitting there thinking they are Sir Alan Bloody Sugar , when in fact they are an absolute bloody shower ...
mph1977 said:
the other thing to remember is that the PH stereotypical Powerfully built borderline sociopathic company director won't want Unions / Professional representation organisations / Staff Association because they might actually have to stick to the rules / follow the law rather than sitting there thinking they are Sir Alan Bloody Sugar , when in fact they are an absolute bloody shower ...
Is that based on any actual experience? Or is it really just the total and utter bullst it appears to be?Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff