Citizen's arrest
Author
Discussion

AA999

Original Poster:

5,180 posts

248 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
Hypothetically, could one make a citizen's arrest on a motorist displaying dangerous driving behaviour?

Saw an incident the other day in which a car refused to let another car merge-in-turn on exit of a roundabout. The lane 1 car was basically pushing the lane 2 car in to on-coming traffic, so it had to merge or crash basically. The lane 1 car only braked and let lane 2 car in at the last moment but then aggressively* overtook it and slammed on its brakes in an attempt to cause a collision.

They both stopped up ahead and exchanged 'words'.


But I wondered if the lane 2 car would have been within his rights to make a citizen's arrest in that situation?



.. * an interpretation by myself being that it was an urban environment with on-coming traffic and little space to overtake safely. In doing so forcing an oncoming car in to a bus lay-by.


Edited by AA999 on Tuesday 10th March 09:22

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

157 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
AA999 said:
But I wondered if the lane 2 car would have been within his rights to make a citizen's arrest in that situation?
A car isn't a citizen...

But even if it was the occupant of the car, it wouldn't go anywhere, since there'd be zero credible evidence.

Johna

2,328 posts

201 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
I would say no as you can only make a citizens arrest in certain circumstances.

It would likely fail on the first is that it has to be an indictable offence which means an offence tried in crown court. I.e. A serious offence.

There's more to it than that, such as it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make the arrest instead etc...

Also making an citizens arrest unlawfully could also make you liable for an unlawful arrest suit.

cho

927 posts

306 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
Both cars have brakes and both had opportunities to stop at any time I assume. I don't really think it's a crime not to allow someone in on merging lanes. It might be aggressive/inconsiderate but I assume one driver has right of way and the other is expecting courtesy but also might have been too forceful trying to get in

gus607

999 posts

167 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
This country is bad enough as it is, what with political correctness gone mad & now you want motorists to make citizens arrests for trivial motoring offences ?

Jesus wept.

AA999

Original Poster:

5,180 posts

248 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
cho said:
Both cars have brakes and both had opportunities to stop at any time I assume. I don't really think it's a crime not to allow someone in on merging lanes. It might be aggressive/inconsiderate but I assume one driver has right of way and the other is expecting courtesy but also might have been too forceful trying to get in
There have been a few discussions on here regarding merge-in-turn.
The Highway Code doesn't define any one to have a priority or anyone to have an onus to 'give way', but many were saying that the car ahead of the other has the 'right' to merge ahead of the car that is behind. (Quite 'open ended' I know).

But from what I saw it was a case of lane 1 car intentionally driving to close the gap and prevent lane 2 car from merging. Thus taking away the options for lane 2 car. (ie. if lane 2 car had braked it would most likely have resulted in lane 1 car colliding with the rear 3/4).

But that all said and done, the citizen's arrest being aimed at the 'follow up' action by lane 1 car, in that he aggressively overtook and slammed on the brakes to try and cause lane 2 car to crash in to his rear. (In most people's book, this is surely dangerous driving).

My thought was that a citizen's arrest could be performed on anyone that is seen to be breaking the law if there are no police present to make the arrest.
There would have been a number of witnesses present. (Myself being one of them).

Busa mav

2,847 posts

185 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
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could lane 2 driver , who was the one in danger, not just have applied some brake ?

LordGrover

34,186 posts

243 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
Sounds like two selfish drivers being childish.
Correct course of action would be to administer a swift clip round the ear and off to bed with no tea for both. judge

AA999

Original Poster:

5,180 posts

248 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
LordGrover said:
Sounds like two selfish drivers being childish.
Correct course of action would be to administer a swift clip round the ear and off to bed with no tea for both. judge
Not sure how you deem both to be selfish and childish?
From what I saw being two cars behind, and with a pretty clear view of the proceedings, the actions of lane 1 car to decide to accelerate and intentionally close the gap whilst lane 2 car had already started to merge, seemed to be only one aggressive and childish driver out of the two.


I seem to view a lot of this behaviour on the roads these days, most times there is time for one car to brake, even if one driver is being a retard. But on this occasion the merge lane is quite short and leaves little time for lane 2 cars to maneuver. Lane 2 car had already started the merge but lane 1 car accelerated to prevent it from doing so.

But again the citizen's arrest part was more aimed at the resulting actions by the lane 1 car in him trying to cause a collision.
(As the merge-in-turn discussions have been done in other threads).


Johna

2,328 posts

201 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
AA999 said:
My thought was that a citizen's arrest could be performed on anyone that is seen to be breaking the law if there are no police present to make the arrest.
Incorrect.

AA999

Original Poster:

5,180 posts

248 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
Johna said:
Incorrect.
Thanks.

anonymous-user

85 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
Johna said:
AA999 said:
My thought was that a citizen's arrest could be performed on anyone that is seen to be breaking the law if there are no police present to make the arrest.
Incorrect.
Partially correct. Here's the legislation:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/60/sectio...

S.24A PACE said:
Arrest without warrant: other persons

(1) A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
(a) anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.

(2) Where an indictable offence has been committed, a person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
(a) anyone who is guilty of the offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.

(3) But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1) or (2) is exercisable only if—
(a) the person making the arrest has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (4) it is necessary to arrest the person in question; and
(b) it appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make it instead.

(4) The reasons are to prevent the person in question—
(a) causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
(b) suffering physical injury;
(c) causing loss of or damage to property; or
(d) making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.

AA999

Original Poster:

5,180 posts

248 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
So I guess 'dangerous driving' may not fall in to any of those definitions, or would it?

AndrewEH1

4,922 posts

184 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
Not really, although the legislation above is from PACE so England and Wales only.

You can only do it for things under Common Law in Scotland

I wouldn't recommend making a citizen's arrest at all though...

agtlaw

7,417 posts

237 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
AA999 said:
So I guess 'dangerous driving' may not fall in to any of those definitions, or would it?
Dangerous driving is an indictable offence.

AndrewEH1

4,922 posts

184 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
agtlaw said:
AA999 said:
So I guess 'dangerous driving' may not fall in to any of those definitions, or would it?
Dangerous driving is an indictable offence.
I'd say it would fail the subsection 3 requirements?

agtlaw

7,417 posts

237 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
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AndrewEH1 said:
I'd say it would fail the subsection 3 requirements?
Probably, depends on the circumstances.

jwill

43 posts

177 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
agtlaw said:
Dangerous driving is an indictable offence.
Dangerous driving is an either way offence. RTA 1988 s2

Pothole

34,367 posts

313 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
AA999 said:
Hypothetically, could one make a citizen's arrest on a motorist displaying dangerous driving behaviour?

Saw an incident the other day in which a car refused to let another car merge-in-turn on exit of a roundabout. The lane 1 car was basically pushing the lane 2 car in to on-coming traffic, so it had to merge or crash basically. The lane 1 car only braked and let lane 2 car in at the last moment but then aggressively* overtook it and slammed on its brakes in an attempt to cause a collision.

They both stopped up ahead and exchanged 'words'.


But I wondered if the lane 2 car would have been within his rights to make a citizen's arrest in that situation?



.. * an interpretation by myself being that it was an urban environment with on-coming traffic and little space to overtake safely. In doing so forcing an oncoming car in to a bus lay-by.


Edited by AA999 on Tuesday 10th March 09:22
why couldn't the lane 2 car just merge later? Sounds like they are both equally to blame.

johnao

698 posts

274 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
quotequote all
AA999 said:
They both stopped up ahead and exchanged 'words'.

But I wondered if the lane 2 car would have been within his rights to make a citizen's arrest in that situation?
Don't get involved. As a traffic officer once said to me... It's all about discipline. Drive away from the incident; don't get involved in any form of road rage. There are a lot of very nasty people out there who you just wouldn't want to get involved with.