Cost of the "cheaper" helicopters...
Discussion
What sort of costs would be associated with the lower end helicopters?
Kept in my own storage & take off/land in own field.
Thinking R22/Rotorway type job. License PPL(H) I'm expecting £15-20k (although cheaper abroad - is this a good idea?) but don't know what the yearly costs are going to be of these budget ones.
Just sort of seeing if it's a realistic dream/plan to pursue I suppose...
Kept in my own storage & take off/land in own field.
Thinking R22/Rotorway type job. License PPL(H) I'm expecting £15-20k (although cheaper abroad - is this a good idea?) but don't know what the yearly costs are going to be of these budget ones.
Just sort of seeing if it's a realistic dream/plan to pursue I suppose...
ks....rent it!ecsrobin said:
Having worked for 5 years with helicopter crews I don't know any that will step foot in a Robinson. However clearly there's a market for them.
there is nothing wrong with an R44-very reliable machines and like most things, down to pilot diligence. My brother runs one and i think 1500 hrs is a 60k rebuild. i personally wouldnt fly in one. I cant afford to run a new bell. 250k a year all in, too rich given 50 hours useBurwood said:
there is nothing wrong with an R44-very reliable machines and like most things, down to pilot diligence. My brother runs one and i think 1500 hrs is a 60k rebuild. i personally wouldnt fly in one. I cant afford to run a new bell. 250k a year all in, too rich given 50 hours use
There is nothing wrong with an R44..........well apart from not having a turbine engine, or better still 2 turbine engines or for any Merlin/CH53 stick monkeys 3 turbine engines
....or a really short time to recover the rotorspeed before its irrecoverable post a power loss/run down
....being very susceptible to wind conditions
Thats a bit unfair but combined with low experience pilots then its foibles can catch people out and thats why there is a steady stream of accidents.
The words 'cheap' and 'helicopter' rarely appear in the same sentence.
Firstly, whatever you fly, you want the very best training, ideally from a career instructor, in the type of helicopter you intend to be flying long term. And there are no short cuts - most ab initio pilots take 60-80 hrs to get the PPL (H) ticket, and even then they are at the start of the learning curve
Not a fan of the R22 or Rotorway, although there are many examples in apparently safe use. I'd prefer to be hanging from a fully articulated 3-blade rotorhead, with a tough, well protected cabin and undercarriage - the Schweizer 269, some Enstroms or the new (but more expensive) Guimbal Cabri G2 are better such designs, IMO.
Ownership makes sense if you are flying 100hrs or more pa - and if you do fly helicopters, then 100hrs pa should be the target, to maintain the standards of competence required.
Make no mistake, helicopter travel is the most fantastic means of transport, and will 'out-trump' any sports car, but they come with significant costs and responsibilities.
Have a few lessons with a good instructor and see if the bug bites.
Firstly, whatever you fly, you want the very best training, ideally from a career instructor, in the type of helicopter you intend to be flying long term. And there are no short cuts - most ab initio pilots take 60-80 hrs to get the PPL (H) ticket, and even then they are at the start of the learning curve
Not a fan of the R22 or Rotorway, although there are many examples in apparently safe use. I'd prefer to be hanging from a fully articulated 3-blade rotorhead, with a tough, well protected cabin and undercarriage - the Schweizer 269, some Enstroms or the new (but more expensive) Guimbal Cabri G2 are better such designs, IMO.
Ownership makes sense if you are flying 100hrs or more pa - and if you do fly helicopters, then 100hrs pa should be the target, to maintain the standards of competence required.
Make no mistake, helicopter travel is the most fantastic means of transport, and will 'out-trump' any sports car, but they come with significant costs and responsibilities.
Have a few lessons with a good instructor and see if the bug bites.
the r22 in my opinion is a death trap I've had the clutch and low rotor rpm alarms and only having little time to lower the collective is dangerous!
Depending on budget I'd recommend the Hughes 300 very stable machine!
If budget was higher then I'd recommend the new cabri g2 my dad is setting up a helicopter flying school and the g2 is what we are going to be using as we don't think trainee pilots trust the R22!
Also rotor way helicopters especially the 162 and the 90 aren't considered safe and have also had a lot of problems regarding tail rotor failure as it's not shaft driven but rather belt driven! The new talon negates this and you can turbine it
One of my favourites is the gazelle and the ec120 beautiful machines! And I flew into my wedding in the as355 twin squirrel
Also see if you can import the mosquito turbine single seater or the helicycle they are supremely cheap and look a lot of fun actually
Depending on budget I'd recommend the Hughes 300 very stable machine!
If budget was higher then I'd recommend the new cabri g2 my dad is setting up a helicopter flying school and the g2 is what we are going to be using as we don't think trainee pilots trust the R22!
Also rotor way helicopters especially the 162 and the 90 aren't considered safe and have also had a lot of problems regarding tail rotor failure as it's not shaft driven but rather belt driven! The new talon negates this and you can turbine it
One of my favourites is the gazelle and the ec120 beautiful machines! And I flew into my wedding in the as355 twin squirrel
Also see if you can import the mosquito turbine single seater or the helicycle they are supremely cheap and look a lot of fun actually
As usual, mention the R22 and the haters come out. The R22 used to be the only option for normal people to afford to learn to fly helicopters. I've had loads of fun flying and gaining my licence in R22s and was instructed by an ex army helicopter instructor with thousand of hours in multiple Heli's (do you think he would fly in them if they where that bad?). Yes they are twitchy and R44s seem more stable but R22s are the cheapest cost option in the same way as I would love to drive a Ferrari as my daily but I can't afford it. I think the majority of the problems is when R22s are used in farms across Africa and Australia and are being flown without any mechanical sympathy (fly it like you stole it mentality)
When I lived in Switzerland there was hardly any R22s in flight schools as they all preferred the Schweizer 300. I asked why and they said simply because it was quieter machine and so they had less complaints. Try finding a local Schweizer 300 flying school here? Kemble have the Guimbal Cabri G2 which is brilliant machine but again how many other schools have these?
Yes we would all love to fly Jet Rangers and Eurocopters but I simply cannot afford the 100's or 1000's of pounds per hour.
Anyway back to OP questions, personally I would go for the R44 as I don't think there is a massive difference in running costs and you get a nicer flying Helicopter and can have 3 friends go with you. Also factor in insurance as most flight schools I've spoken to said it was a big factor but might be different for just one person rather than lots?
When I lived in Switzerland there was hardly any R22s in flight schools as they all preferred the Schweizer 300. I asked why and they said simply because it was quieter machine and so they had less complaints. Try finding a local Schweizer 300 flying school here? Kemble have the Guimbal Cabri G2 which is brilliant machine but again how many other schools have these?
Yes we would all love to fly Jet Rangers and Eurocopters but I simply cannot afford the 100's or 1000's of pounds per hour.
Anyway back to OP questions, personally I would go for the R44 as I don't think there is a massive difference in running costs and you get a nicer flying Helicopter and can have 3 friends go with you. Also factor in insurance as most flight schools I've spoken to said it was a big factor but might be different for just one person rather than lots?
Schweizers are used in Switzerland because the R22 is fundamentally underpowered - struggles to lift two sizeable adults and high fuel load. Add 'hot and high' and the R22 is in dangerous territory. Also, the R22 was never designed as a trainer, Frank conceived it as a cheap, entry level machine, and you need to watch that teetering rotorhead in windy/mountainous terrain.
The Schweizer was originally designed, by Hughes, as a trainer for the US Army - they trained over 30,000 pilots on the TH-55 - flying over 3 million hrs. The S.300 - particularly the 300'C' model is very powerful and manoeuvrable - 2-up, full fuel and lots of reserve - and a decent safety cell. Not fast, but a joy to fly. However they are expensive - similar price to an R44.
R44s still divide opinion as they are an evolution of the R22 design, but the Raven 2 is popular - mainly because it's the default (only) option if you want a 4-seat piston.
Lots of very good flying schools around the UK with various options, depending where the OP is based.
The Schweizer was originally designed, by Hughes, as a trainer for the US Army - they trained over 30,000 pilots on the TH-55 - flying over 3 million hrs. The S.300 - particularly the 300'C' model is very powerful and manoeuvrable - 2-up, full fuel and lots of reserve - and a decent safety cell. Not fast, but a joy to fly. However they are expensive - similar price to an R44.
R44s still divide opinion as they are an evolution of the R22 design, but the Raven 2 is popular - mainly because it's the default (only) option if you want a 4-seat piston.
Lots of very good flying schools around the UK with various options, depending where the OP is based.
It's a 'Robinson' - so opinions will always be divided.
The new Bell 505 looks likely to be strong in that market - http://www.bell505.com/
And the used options - Bell 206, Enstrom 480B, MD500, EC120, EC350 - are more sophisticated alternatives, IMO.
However, we are definitely no longer in the 'cheap' territory!
The new Bell 505 looks likely to be strong in that market - http://www.bell505.com/
And the used options - Bell 206, Enstrom 480B, MD500, EC120, EC350 - are more sophisticated alternatives, IMO.
However, we are definitely no longer in the 'cheap' territory!
SwissJonese said:
As usual, mention the R22 and the haters come out. The R22 used to be the only option for normal people to afford to learn to fly helicopters. I've had loads of fun flying and gaining my licence in R22s and was instructed by an ex army helicopter instructor with thousand of hours in multiple Heli's (do you think he would fly in them if they where that bad?). Yes they are twitchy and R44s seem more stable but R22s are the cheapest cost option in the same way as I would love to drive a Ferrari as my daily but I can't afford it. I think the majority of the problems is when R22s are used in farms across Africa and Australia and are being flown without any mechanical sympathy (fly it like you stole it mentality)
When I lived in Switzerland there was hardly any R22s in flight schools as they all preferred the Schweizer 300. I asked why and they said simply because it was quieter machine and so they had less complaints. Try finding a local Schweizer 300 flying school here? Kemble have the Guimbal Cabri G2 which is brilliant machine but again how many other schools have these?
Yes we would all love to fly Jet Rangers and Eurocopters but I simply cannot afford the 100's or 1000's of pounds per hour.
Anyway back to OP questions, personally I would go for the R44 as I don't think there is a massive difference in running costs and you get a nicer flying Helicopter and can have 3 friends go with you. Also factor in insurance as most flight schools I've spoken to said it was a big factor but might be different for just one person rather than lots?
I'm not a hater of the R22 I just don't like a machine where there's little inertia in the blades that second to get the lever down in a serious emergency is something I don't like either, but I've flown in the R22 for a good couple of hundred hours! I don't like jet Rangers neither I don't see the appeal and they're cramped in the back as well!When I lived in Switzerland there was hardly any R22s in flight schools as they all preferred the Schweizer 300. I asked why and they said simply because it was quieter machine and so they had less complaints. Try finding a local Schweizer 300 flying school here? Kemble have the Guimbal Cabri G2 which is brilliant machine but again how many other schools have these?
Yes we would all love to fly Jet Rangers and Eurocopters but I simply cannot afford the 100's or 1000's of pounds per hour.
Anyway back to OP questions, personally I would go for the R44 as I don't think there is a massive difference in running costs and you get a nicer flying Helicopter and can have 3 friends go with you. Also factor in insurance as most flight schools I've spoken to said it was a big factor but might be different for just one person rather than lots?
For me it's the Hughes 300 for cheapness
If you can pick an alouette up they're a nice noisy turbine or have you considered an enstrom f28 they're abit quirky but a nice machine nevertheless
Geneve said:
It's a 'Robinson' - so opinions will always be divided.
The new Bell 505 looks likely to be strong in that market - http://www.bell505.com/
And the used options - Bell 206, Enstrom 480B, MD500, EC120, EC350 - are more sophisticated alternatives, IMO.
However, we are definitely no longer in the 'cheap' territory!
Sat in a 505 at heli expo what a massive impressive ship that was with the glass cockpit from the side it looks very euro copter though and it towered the jet ranger parked next to itThe new Bell 505 looks likely to be strong in that market - http://www.bell505.com/
And the used options - Bell 206, Enstrom 480B, MD500, EC120, EC350 - are more sophisticated alternatives, IMO.
However, we are definitely no longer in the 'cheap' territory!
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