Kitcar or Elise/VX220
Discussion
I'm vaguely considering getting something a bit more practical to replace my bike engined MNR Vortx. I have a company car so it's purely for fun and trackdays but I'm coming round to the idea of something with a windscreen and maybe even a roof so I can get more use out of it in winter.
The obvious option is another kitcar with a bit more bodywork but I'm quite tempted by the idea of an Elise/VX220 as being something I can just jump in and drive without messing around with a helmet, earplugs, harnesses etc. I wouldn't want to spend much more than about £7000 which might preclude an Elise but will get me an n/a VX.
The Elise/VX will definitely be a lot slower and less manic but I'm wondering how the handling would compare? Anyone here gone from a decent track focused kitcar to an Elise or VX? Also if I do decide to make the change is an early Elise worth the extra cash over a VX? Not fussed about badge or looks at all, just purely as a driver's car.
Is there anything else to consider at this price point? I was toying with the idea of an MR2 mk3 with a 2ZZ conversion and some money chucked at the handling but it's maybe never going to be in the same league as an Elise!
The obvious option is another kitcar with a bit more bodywork but I'm quite tempted by the idea of an Elise/VX220 as being something I can just jump in and drive without messing around with a helmet, earplugs, harnesses etc. I wouldn't want to spend much more than about £7000 which might preclude an Elise but will get me an n/a VX.
The Elise/VX will definitely be a lot slower and less manic but I'm wondering how the handling would compare? Anyone here gone from a decent track focused kitcar to an Elise or VX? Also if I do decide to make the change is an early Elise worth the extra cash over a VX? Not fussed about badge or looks at all, just purely as a driver's car.
Is there anything else to consider at this price point? I was toying with the idea of an MR2 mk3 with a 2ZZ conversion and some money chucked at the handling but it's maybe never going to be in the same league as an Elise!
Edited by T0MMY on Friday 13th March 19:59
T0MMY said:
...is an early Elise worth the extra cash over a VX...
With prices as they are at the moment, definitely not. In standard form the VX doesn't drive as well as the Elise but it doesn't take much to make them almost indistinguishable - most suspension parts are interchangeable between them so the only unavoidable difference comes from the fact that the VX is around 100kg heavier than an early Elise. Obviously the engines are significantly different too.
kambites said:
With prices as they are at the moment, definitely not.
In standard form the VX doesn't drive as well as the Elise but it doesn't take much to make them almost indistinguishable - most suspension parts are interchangeable between them so the only unavoidable difference comes from the fact that the VX is around 100kg heavier than an early Elise. Obviously the engines are significantly different too.
Where does that 100kg come from!? I appreciate the old k-series engines were pretty light but the difference can't be that great surely.In standard form the VX doesn't drive as well as the Elise but it doesn't take much to make them almost indistinguishable - most suspension parts are interchangeable between them so the only unavoidable difference comes from the fact that the VX is around 100kg heavier than an early Elise. Obviously the engines are significantly different too.
Are the suspension differences just geometry and spring rates or actual hardware?
I went from R1 Mk Indy to MR2 MK3, turbo conversion not 2ZZ though. I didn't get there directly which was a mistake as I missed the lightness. The MR2 was nowhere near the Indy but it was entirely competent on track once the suspension had been done. Standard brakes were fine and with 200bhp it was no slouch.
I sold the MR2 due to a house move last year and I'm currently looking for a replacement. I doubt I'll go back to a kit as its far too compromised. The joys of a heater and roof on a wet day make all the difference and I did like the fact that running a second car that was actually semi usable on the road made a lot of sense. I also drove slower on track due to not trailering the car there. In an ideal world I'd have one of everything but it wasn't a bad option when choices are limited.
I sold the MR2 due to a house move last year and I'm currently looking for a replacement. I doubt I'll go back to a kit as its far too compromised. The joys of a heater and roof on a wet day make all the difference and I did like the fact that running a second car that was actually semi usable on the road made a lot of sense. I also drove slower on track due to not trailering the car there. In an ideal world I'd have one of everything but it wasn't a bad option when choices are limited.
T0MMY said:
Where does that 100kg come from!? I appreciate the old k-series engines were pretty light but the difference can't be that great surely.
Are the suspension differences just geometry and spring rates or actual hardware?
Figures from the Evo mag; Elise S1 - 731kg.Are the suspension differences just geometry and spring rates or actual hardware?
VX220 NA - 875kg.
Newest Elise 1.6 - 876kg.
Newest Elise S - 924kg.
For the saving you'll make on buying a VX, you'll have 9/10 the handling ability. If you prefer, spend some of that saving on a decent suspension setup.
I went from a ex race caterham, only a 1600 but it had a very low diff, 6 speed and a lsd to a series 2 111s elise.
The Elise didn't make my mouth go dry before a ride out but I could of used it daily easily. It wasn't as quick acceleration wise but as a package it was awesome. You could feel the pivot point had moved back to where the engine was, not that I really tried to provoke it.
Maybe a n/a 220 with a supercharger upgrade later would be the best of both worlds?
The Elise didn't make my mouth go dry before a ride out but I could of used it daily easily. It wasn't as quick acceleration wise but as a package it was awesome. You could feel the pivot point had moved back to where the engine was, not that I really tried to provoke it.
Maybe a n/a 220 with a supercharger upgrade later would be the best of both worlds?
T0MMY said:
Where does that 100kg come from!? I appreciate the old k-series engines were pretty light but the difference can't be that great surely.
A mixture of things. The VX220's engine is a chunk of it, the clams are another significant chunk. Even the clams can be swapped with a bit of work though, there's at least one VX220 turbo running around in Exige bodywork. T0MMY said:
Are the suspension differences just geometry and spring rates or actual hardware?
The biggest single difference in terms of handling comes from the wheels and tyres. The VX220 uses the same diameter wheels front and rear and the Lotus models do not. Vauxhall switched to the S2 setup (16s at the front, 17s at the rear) for the VXR and it apparently makes an enormous difference. They do run different geometry from the factory but in pracice you're unlikely to find an example of either which is running factory geometry. The VX220 used the same type of dampers as the S2 Elise, I'm not sure about the standard spring rates, but again, a large proportion are running after-market setups by now. Edited by kambites on Saturday 14th March 08:57
DanCat said:
I went from a ex race caterham, only a 1600 but it had a very low diff, 6 speed and a lsd to a series 2 111s elise.
The Elise didn't make my mouth go dry before a ride out but I could of used it daily easily. It wasn't as quick acceleration wise but as a package it was awesome. You could feel the pivot point had moved back to where the engine was, not that I really tried to provoke it.
Maybe a n/a 220 with a supercharger upgrade later would be the best of both worlds?
This is what I have. Fits my needs perfectly. NA with SC.The Elise didn't make my mouth go dry before a ride out but I could of used it daily easily. It wasn't as quick acceleration wise but as a package it was awesome. You could feel the pivot point had moved back to where the engine was, not that I really tried to provoke it.
Maybe a n/a 220 with a supercharger upgrade later would be the best of both worlds?
kambites said:
There's certainly a lot to be said for a supercharged 2.2 VX220. The extra weight of the VX means that something like a Honda powered Elise will always be a better car, but then it'll probably cost twice as much and it wont be that much better.
And from quite a lot of conversations with other owners of each, less troublesome and costly when it goes wrong. (Which it does seem to with the honda conversions...). Perhaps I need to dig deeper and my fingers are crossed....ive not heard many issues with vx sc conversion./vxfanboy
Edited by Mike22233 on Saturday 14th March 09:17
Mike22233 said:
And from quite a lot of conversations with other owners of each, less troublesome and costly when it goes wrong.
/vxfanboy
Certianly true of early Honda conversions. I think most of the issues have been ironed out by now and if you're worried about it you can always put in a duratec using the original driveshafts which is a much ismpler conversions./vxfanboy
If I was a "power" person, I'd probably have gone down the same route as you. I've never once actually wanted more power than my standard (VVC) K-series Elise has, though and the Elise has proven cheaper to run than a VX would have done. If I was buying again now that VX220s seem to have bottomed out, I might go the other way.
kambites said:
Certianly true of early Honda conversions. I think most of the issues have been ironed out by now and if you're worried about it you can always put in a duratec using the original driveshafts which is a much ismpler conversions.
If I was a "power" person, I'd probably have gone down the same route as you.
The torque is also nice, 225ft lbs which is believe is still higher than SC Exige.If I was a "power" person, I'd probably have gone down the same route as you.
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