FN2 Type R to E90 330d? Good idea?
Discussion
I am currently running a 57 plate FN2 Civic Type R as a daily driver.
Due to my weekly mileage increasing from 150 miles a week to 350-400, I am considering chopping it in for a diesel, something I never really expected to do.
I've averaged 29mpg in the Civic over the last 5000 miles, and this would go up slightly due to doing longer journeys, but still 32-34mpg is probably to be expected. Although this is affordable I'm not really getting the opportunity to drive the Civic for pleasure much if at all. My commute is 40-45mph single carriageway queues of lorries and it's no fun at all. And if i'm only going to be plodding up the road and back in it, is it worth paying the extra in fuel for a car that I'm not seeing the benefits of day to day?
The temptation to move to a diesel is so that I can save the money running my daily driver, moving to something that will do 45mpg+ ideally, and then put the savings toward a dedicated cheaper weekend car that I could maybe do some trackdays in and use purely for fun (Mk1 Mx5, 106 Gti, Mr2, etc). But this would be something to save up for and not a priority.
The diesel in question is a 2006/2007 E90 BMW 330d. I've considered the 320d from a more economical point of view, however I want to have some redeeming qualities if I'm driving it everyday so I've moved my attention to the 330d.
230bhp, Rwd and 6 cylinders are the redeeming qualities for me.
The finance works out at around £30pm more for the 3 Series I have been looking at over the Honda, insurance no real difference and tax slightly less for the 330.
My questions to PH are:
Will I regret this choice and miss my revvy little hot hatch, they are all I'm really used to?
Will the E90 330d do a genuine 45mpg+ doing less than 60mph A road driving?
Will the performance be a huge difference, both in terms of how quick it feels and how quick it actually is?
Have many people gone from the 1 car Hot Hatch for all occasions to the, 2 cars, 1 for commuting and 1 for fun and was it worth it for you?
This is by no means a done deal for me and I will be looking to test drive the BMW in due course, but some real life experience would be useful!
Thanks guys!
Due to my weekly mileage increasing from 150 miles a week to 350-400, I am considering chopping it in for a diesel, something I never really expected to do.
I've averaged 29mpg in the Civic over the last 5000 miles, and this would go up slightly due to doing longer journeys, but still 32-34mpg is probably to be expected. Although this is affordable I'm not really getting the opportunity to drive the Civic for pleasure much if at all. My commute is 40-45mph single carriageway queues of lorries and it's no fun at all. And if i'm only going to be plodding up the road and back in it, is it worth paying the extra in fuel for a car that I'm not seeing the benefits of day to day?
The temptation to move to a diesel is so that I can save the money running my daily driver, moving to something that will do 45mpg+ ideally, and then put the savings toward a dedicated cheaper weekend car that I could maybe do some trackdays in and use purely for fun (Mk1 Mx5, 106 Gti, Mr2, etc). But this would be something to save up for and not a priority.
The diesel in question is a 2006/2007 E90 BMW 330d. I've considered the 320d from a more economical point of view, however I want to have some redeeming qualities if I'm driving it everyday so I've moved my attention to the 330d.
230bhp, Rwd and 6 cylinders are the redeeming qualities for me.
The finance works out at around £30pm more for the 3 Series I have been looking at over the Honda, insurance no real difference and tax slightly less for the 330.
My questions to PH are:
Will I regret this choice and miss my revvy little hot hatch, they are all I'm really used to?
Will the E90 330d do a genuine 45mpg+ doing less than 60mph A road driving?
Will the performance be a huge difference, both in terms of how quick it feels and how quick it actually is?
Have many people gone from the 1 car Hot Hatch for all occasions to the, 2 cars, 1 for commuting and 1 for fun and was it worth it for you?
This is by no means a done deal for me and I will be looking to test drive the BMW in due course, but some real life experience would be useful!
Thanks guys!
From what iv read here and various bmw forums i wouldnt go anywhere near this generation of bmw 2 litre diesel (timing chain problem) so for me id defo go 330d over 320d. Cant really offer any experience over either car though really but i can see why the 330 makes the most sense, still can provide a bit of fun when you want but ahould give 45mpg+ on that kind of commute as well.
billy939 said:
Will the E90 330d do a genuine 45mpg+ doing less than 60mph A road driving?
Potentially yes, but probably not. The 330d is a good car in loads of ways, but this sounds like you are grasping for ways to justify going to what you suspect is going to be a very different and probably not a satisfying driving experience.I'd be careful here if your main motivation for ten change is MPG.
I have a 231 330D auto, remapped with Evolve to 287BHP.
Before it was remapped I was getting around 38mpg on average, and around 44-44mpg at a cruise, after remapping it has improved a couple of MPG, until you use the performance available, then as you'd expect it's worse than before.
Is the car capable of plodding along and achieving 45mpg? Yes. But, if you are likely to be sat watching the MPG read out, you may be best of with a 320Ed or similar.
I have a 231 330D auto, remapped with Evolve to 287BHP.
Before it was remapped I was getting around 38mpg on average, and around 44-44mpg at a cruise, after remapping it has improved a couple of MPG, until you use the performance available, then as you'd expect it's worse than before.
Is the car capable of plodding along and achieving 45mpg? Yes. But, if you are likely to be sat watching the MPG read out, you may be best of with a 320Ed or similar.
Thanks for the replies
I appreciate that the 320d will be more economical but I also feel that I will get bored of the car very quickly. I may want to get something more economical but I also don't want to sacrifice all fun out of driving the thing. There is the rare opportunity where I will get to drive it a bit quicker and on more interesting roads and the noise and lack of power do put me off the 320d.
The 330d seems like a good compromise between good performance and better economy, it will still be doing 10mpg more than the Civic even at worst I think.
In regards to bills and repairs, I have nothing upcoming for the FN2 just an oil service that I will do myself. For annual services I wouldn't expect the difference to be that great but I could be wrong?
By no means do I have to change from the Civic, I like driving it and it does everything I want, mostly.
The issue for me is that I bought it to do a little bit of boring commuting and a little bit of B road driving for pleasure. It's turned out to be 90% the former so I am tempted to go for something built for doing the commuting part and then put some time and money into a much cheaper weekend car that can do the other 10%, this would be instead of having a car that is a compromise for both.
If anyone has any experiences of the 330d or simialr I'd love to hear them.
Thanks.
I appreciate that the 320d will be more economical but I also feel that I will get bored of the car very quickly. I may want to get something more economical but I also don't want to sacrifice all fun out of driving the thing. There is the rare opportunity where I will get to drive it a bit quicker and on more interesting roads and the noise and lack of power do put me off the 320d.
The 330d seems like a good compromise between good performance and better economy, it will still be doing 10mpg more than the Civic even at worst I think.
In regards to bills and repairs, I have nothing upcoming for the FN2 just an oil service that I will do myself. For annual services I wouldn't expect the difference to be that great but I could be wrong?
By no means do I have to change from the Civic, I like driving it and it does everything I want, mostly.
The issue for me is that I bought it to do a little bit of boring commuting and a little bit of B road driving for pleasure. It's turned out to be 90% the former so I am tempted to go for something built for doing the commuting part and then put some time and money into a much cheaper weekend car that can do the other 10%, this would be instead of having a car that is a compromise for both.
If anyone has any experiences of the 330d or simialr I'd love to hear them.
Thanks.
It totally depends what you enjoy about cars. My wife has an FN2 Civic Type R and I have a 320d as my daily driver. I prefer the 320d because of the rear drive balance and the linear and less frenetic controls. Sure, I love the Honda engine and prefer it's performance, but balance and control linearity mean more to me. My wife on the other hand likes the better balance of the BMW (she nearly bought a 1 series for that reason), but ultimately prefers a nice revvy petrol engine that sounds good and goes faster. Everyone's interested in different aspects of cars.
Me buying the 320d was a complete leap into the unknown, an almost crazy decision, as I've never owned a diesel before (always petrol engines, and usually performance ones too) and I'd never owned a car that slow before (~1400kg and 163bhp!), but as it happens my initial concerns were quashed and I learnt a lot about my preferences in cars. It's those preferences you need to discover - perhaps rent a 3 series diesel for a bit? (I borrowed one for a weekend before taking the plunge). It doesn't matter if it's a 318d, it'll give you the overall feel of the car, and then test drive a 330d just to see what the engine and performance is like.
Me buying the 320d was a complete leap into the unknown, an almost crazy decision, as I've never owned a diesel before (always petrol engines, and usually performance ones too) and I'd never owned a car that slow before (~1400kg and 163bhp!), but as it happens my initial concerns were quashed and I learnt a lot about my preferences in cars. It's those preferences you need to discover - perhaps rent a 3 series diesel for a bit? (I borrowed one for a weekend before taking the plunge). It doesn't matter if it's a 318d, it'll give you the overall feel of the car, and then test drive a 330d just to see what the engine and performance is like.
f1nn said:
I'd be careful here if your main motivation for ten change is MPG.
I have a 231 330D auto, remapped with Evolve to 287BHP.
Before it was remapped I was getting around 38mpg on average, and around 44-44mpg at a cruise, after remapping it has improved a couple of MPG, until you use the performance available, then as you'd expect it's worse than before.
Is the car capable of plodding along and achieving 45mpg? Yes. But, if you are likely to be sat watching the MPG read out, you may be best of with a 320Ed or similar.
Thanks for that!I have a 231 330D auto, remapped with Evolve to 287BHP.
Before it was remapped I was getting around 38mpg on average, and around 44-44mpg at a cruise, after remapping it has improved a couple of MPG, until you use the performance available, then as you'd expect it's worse than before.
Is the car capable of plodding along and achieving 45mpg? Yes. But, if you are likely to be sat watching the MPG read out, you may be best of with a 320Ed or similar.
An evolve remap was something I've looked at too if I was to go ahead, how much has it changed the car to drive?
I think part of this change would be so that I wouldn't have to be watching the Mpg readout every drive. I'm doing that in the Civic to get low 30's, if it got 35mpg no issue then I'd be fine but I have to drive pretty carefully to do that, which means constant eco driving and it does get tedious staying below 3000rpm when you have 8000 at your disposal!
So 38mpg after the fuel cost differences (not that much as I use one tank of 99ron a month as anyway) would be good enough for driving quickly, as the Civic will drop to 25mpg if I drive at 75-80mph. If the BMW did 40mpg with the occasional blast for overtaking I would be very happy and be better off.
RobM77 said:
It totally depends what you enjoy about cars. My wife has an FN2 Civic Type R and I have a 320d as my daily driver. I prefer the 320d because of the rear drive balance and the linear and less frenetic controls. Sure, I love the Honda engine and prefer it's performance, but balance and control linearity mean more to me. My wife on the other hand likes the better balance of the BMW (she nearly bought a 1 series for that reason), but ultimately prefers a nice revvy petrol engine that sounds good and goes faster. Everyone's interested in different aspects of cars.
Me buying the 320d was a complete leap into the unknown, an almost crazy decision, as I've never owned a diesel before (always petrol engines, and usually performance ones too) and I'd never owned a car that slow before (~1400kg and 163bhp!), but as it happens my initial concerns were quashed and I learnt a lot about my preferences in cars. It's those preferences you need to discover - perhaps rent a 3 series diesel for a bit? (I borrowed one for a weekend before taking the plunge). It doesn't matter if it's a 318d, it'll give you the overall feel of the car, and then test drive a 330d just to see what the engine and performance is like.
Thanks.Me buying the 320d was a complete leap into the unknown, an almost crazy decision, as I've never owned a diesel before (always petrol engines, and usually performance ones too) and I'd never owned a car that slow before (~1400kg and 163bhp!), but as it happens my initial concerns were quashed and I learnt a lot about my preferences in cars. It's those preferences you need to discover - perhaps rent a 3 series diesel for a bit? (I borrowed one for a weekend before taking the plunge). It doesn't matter if it's a 318d, it'll give you the overall feel of the car, and then test drive a 330d just to see what the engine and performance is like.
My boss has a 318d that I may be borrowing for some upcoming meetings so that could be an idea. I have previously only driven a 2014 116d Efficient Dynamics and didn't dislike it, I just wanted more power really as it was very slow and it soudned pretty poor.
The Evolve remap makes a difference, especially on the motorway. I think you would notice it more in a manual, but I wanted an auto because of the mileage I do. It's a lot more responsive,. There are cheaper remaps available, but a few bad reviews of others put me off.
You've taken the difference in fuel costs in to account, and from your figures I'd say you will be no worse off in fuel costs, but really the difference in 35mpg and 40mpg per year is what, say £350?
You've taken the difference in fuel costs in to account, and from your figures I'd say you will be no worse off in fuel costs, but really the difference in 35mpg and 40mpg per year is what, say £350?
It's also worth pointing out that IME, the fuel economy difference between 75-85mph is negligible, so you will not see the drop off in economy like you experience in the CIVIC.
I've had a 318D, and really a 330D is a massively different beast, the 6 cylinder engine makes the car IMO, but there is an economy disadvantage over the 4 cylinder models.
I've had a 318D, and really a 330D is a massively different beast, the 6 cylinder engine makes the car IMO, but there is an economy disadvantage over the 4 cylinder models.
Very true, I've done many long distance trips crusing at 80-100mph and the MPG never drops from the average 39!
Once its up to speed cruising is effortless, and if its a manual (mine is) the torque is awesome for getting back up to speed after slowing for a truck or whatever without having to change down
Once its up to speed cruising is effortless, and if its a manual (mine is) the torque is awesome for getting back up to speed after slowing for a truck or whatever without having to change down
Single carraigeway 40mph stuff stuck behind lorries...have you considered a bike?
I've just gone from a 30d to a 20d series BMW, and there is a certain element of refinement missing from the 20d. Sounds quite agricultural compared to even VAG 4-pot stuff. Couldn't comment on MPG really as I've gone from a 7 to a 1.
I've just gone from a 30d to a 20d series BMW, and there is a certain element of refinement missing from the 20d. Sounds quite agricultural compared to even VAG 4-pot stuff. Couldn't comment on MPG really as I've gone from a 7 to a 1.
The FN2 is a nice all round car, but for long distances I can see the appeal of the 3-series. It is less exciting to steer though. More grown up.
As for your economy question. Allow me to do some calculations for you.
I'm looking at some bulk data. What I've got is average economy of 180 different cars, all of them 2006-2007 330Ds. Combined, these are covering a total of perhaps 500,000 miles between them. Their average? 36.7MPG. This rises to 39.2 for manual cars only and drops to 34.4 for automatics only.
So, the average 330D does 36.7MPG.
But what about you? Will you, personally, average 36.7, the same as everyone else? Well, we can work it out. Let's look at your driving style, from your Civic figures.
You say you averaged 29MPG in your Civic. Looking at the same bulk data (this time from a sample of 60 owners) it gives me an average of 28.1MPG for other owners of the same car as you. This means you're about 3% more economical than the average driver and we can apply this correction to the 330D, with fair accuracy.
Consequently I suspect you will do around 37.8 MPG in the average 330D. 40.5 in the manual and 36 in the auto.
Sound reasonable?
As for your economy question. Allow me to do some calculations for you.
I'm looking at some bulk data. What I've got is average economy of 180 different cars, all of them 2006-2007 330Ds. Combined, these are covering a total of perhaps 500,000 miles between them. Their average? 36.7MPG. This rises to 39.2 for manual cars only and drops to 34.4 for automatics only.
So, the average 330D does 36.7MPG.
But what about you? Will you, personally, average 36.7, the same as everyone else? Well, we can work it out. Let's look at your driving style, from your Civic figures.
You say you averaged 29MPG in your Civic. Looking at the same bulk data (this time from a sample of 60 owners) it gives me an average of 28.1MPG for other owners of the same car as you. This means you're about 3% more economical than the average driver and we can apply this correction to the 330D, with fair accuracy.
Consequently I suspect you will do around 37.8 MPG in the average 330D. 40.5 in the manual and 36 in the auto.
Sound reasonable?
It's quite hard to see a big saving on fuel in that swap. Maybe a couple of quid a month but not enough to save up for a second car.
Have you considered going the other way, keeping the civic for a weekend/good days car (if you like it enough) and buying a pretty boring daily diesel around shed money, VAG PD130 or 306 diesel all seem to get good reviews and mpg. May not be practical for you but it's the way I'd look to go.
Oh, and if you get a 'performance' diesel that isn't fully healthy (like the Mondeo ST TDCI I had) the mpg will never be overly impressive, overall it indicated 38mpg and long runs was 44mpg. Was told there was nothing wrong with it and my driving style wasn't right for it but don't believe that... Tended not to hang around in it though.
Have you considered going the other way, keeping the civic for a weekend/good days car (if you like it enough) and buying a pretty boring daily diesel around shed money, VAG PD130 or 306 diesel all seem to get good reviews and mpg. May not be practical for you but it's the way I'd look to go.
Oh, and if you get a 'performance' diesel that isn't fully healthy (like the Mondeo ST TDCI I had) the mpg will never be overly impressive, overall it indicated 38mpg and long runs was 44mpg. Was told there was nothing wrong with it and my driving style wasn't right for it but don't believe that... Tended not to hang around in it though.
Pentoman said:
The FN2 is a nice all round car, but for long distances I can see the appeal of the 3-series. It is less exciting to steer though. More grown up.
As for your economy question. Allow me to do some calculations for you.
I'm looking at some bulk data. What I've got is average economy of 180 different cars, all of them 2006-2007 330Ds. Combined, these are covering a total of perhaps 500,000 miles between them. Their average? 36.7MPG. This rises to 39.2 for manual cars only and drops to 34.4 for automatics only.
So, the average 330D does 36.7MPG.
But what about you? Will you, personally, average 36.7, the same as everyone else? Well, we can work it out. Let's look at your driving style, from your Civic figures.
You say you averaged 29MPG in your Civic. Looking at the same bulk data (this time from a sample of 60 owners) it gives me an average of 28.1MPG for other owners of the same car as you. This means you're about 3% more economical than the average driver and we can apply this correction to the 330D, with fair accuracy.
Consequently I suspect you will do around 37.8 MPG in the average 330D. 40.5 in the manual and 36 in the auto.
Sound reasonable?
Brilliant thank you.As for your economy question. Allow me to do some calculations for you.
I'm looking at some bulk data. What I've got is average economy of 180 different cars, all of them 2006-2007 330Ds. Combined, these are covering a total of perhaps 500,000 miles between them. Their average? 36.7MPG. This rises to 39.2 for manual cars only and drops to 34.4 for automatics only.
So, the average 330D does 36.7MPG.
But what about you? Will you, personally, average 36.7, the same as everyone else? Well, we can work it out. Let's look at your driving style, from your Civic figures.
You say you averaged 29MPG in your Civic. Looking at the same bulk data (this time from a sample of 60 owners) it gives me an average of 28.1MPG for other owners of the same car as you. This means you're about 3% more economical than the average driver and we can apply this correction to the 330D, with fair accuracy.
Consequently I suspect you will do around 37.8 MPG in the average 330D. 40.5 in the manual and 36 in the auto.
Sound reasonable?
Definitely food for thought as it looks as though the fuel saving will be lower than first thought and all things considered probably not save me anything on fuel.
Decision would now purely come down to driving experience for my commute, and that I guess would require a test drive to really decide.
Great feedback as always, Cheers!
Pentoman, are all of those 330d's known to be in full health? A faulty stat can reduce the mpg by 5-10.
I recently checked the water temp on mine and its a touch low, so once replaced my average will easily be over 40mpg.
That said, as its get 39.x at the moment its not far off your calculations
I recently checked the water temp on mine and its a touch low, so once replaced my average will easily be over 40mpg.
That said, as its get 39.x at the moment its not far off your calculations
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