B6 Audi S4s - talk to me?
Discussion
Hi all,
So I've been pondering over what to get next as my practical daily. I won't be changing for 6 - 9 months but a trait my Dad has passed on to me over the years is that I start looking early and do a tonne of research once I've made up my mind. The idea being to go in eyes open knowing the common problems and avoid a dog. Plus it lets me know if I'm setting my height too high.
I've got a SS 9-3 Aero just now and whatever I get next will have to be as practical as the Saab at least. I live on my own, but I like having a bigger car, always got parts for the MR2 to lug about and I like having the practicality there should I need it.
I've been looking at B6 Audi S4s, saloon or avants. I do like the Avants more, but the right car in the right condition/price would over rule the body shape choice.
I'm looking at ones around the £7k mark. Some are just below at around £6.5k with higher mileage, others just below £8k with less miles and more comprehensive history.
Are S4s around this mark going to be a money pit? Running costs for fuel/servicing isn't an issue, I have no mileage commitment either as I walk to work so fuel consumption doesn't scare me, around 25mpg would be ok ( I'd like more but I can just drive it slightly less
).
However, I don't know these engine at all, any common problems to watch out for? Any big bills that are going to blind side me so look for one that's had that work already?
They look like a whole lot of car for the money at around £8k. I could get my budget to that! Bit of saving, get a pay rise this summer and I'd be sorted.
Or any other options I've overlooked? My criteria is 'real world' faster than the Saab, fairly comfortable, nice interior with some toys, practical and with a characterful engine and driving experience ( ie. Manual too!) Hence the S4 idea, for fast saloons they jump right out. Anything else up to the same sort of money out there I've not thought about?
Cheers
So I've been pondering over what to get next as my practical daily. I won't be changing for 6 - 9 months but a trait my Dad has passed on to me over the years is that I start looking early and do a tonne of research once I've made up my mind. The idea being to go in eyes open knowing the common problems and avoid a dog. Plus it lets me know if I'm setting my height too high.
I've got a SS 9-3 Aero just now and whatever I get next will have to be as practical as the Saab at least. I live on my own, but I like having a bigger car, always got parts for the MR2 to lug about and I like having the practicality there should I need it.
I've been looking at B6 Audi S4s, saloon or avants. I do like the Avants more, but the right car in the right condition/price would over rule the body shape choice.
I'm looking at ones around the £7k mark. Some are just below at around £6.5k with higher mileage, others just below £8k with less miles and more comprehensive history.
Are S4s around this mark going to be a money pit? Running costs for fuel/servicing isn't an issue, I have no mileage commitment either as I walk to work so fuel consumption doesn't scare me, around 25mpg would be ok ( I'd like more but I can just drive it slightly less
). However, I don't know these engine at all, any common problems to watch out for? Any big bills that are going to blind side me so look for one that's had that work already?
They look like a whole lot of car for the money at around £8k. I could get my budget to that! Bit of saving, get a pay rise this summer and I'd be sorted.
Or any other options I've overlooked? My criteria is 'real world' faster than the Saab, fairly comfortable, nice interior with some toys, practical and with a characterful engine and driving experience ( ie. Manual too!) Hence the S4 idea, for fast saloons they jump right out. Anything else up to the same sort of money out there I've not thought about?
Cheers
V8 Audis of this era can have bore scoring issues. Sure it's rare, but they have a higher than average chance of needing a new engine along with timing chain replacement costing a fortune. You can get a warranty that should cover it all, or take your chances.
However they are good value compared to the equivalent E46 M3.
However they are good value compared to the equivalent E46 M3.
iloveboost said:
V8 Audis of this era can have bore scoring issues. Sure it's rare, but they have a higher than average chance of needing a new engine along with timing chain replacement costing a fortune. You can get a warranty that should cover it all, or take your chances.
However they are good value compared to the equivalent E46 M3.
Is the problem with the chains as prolific as it's made out to be? Sometimes these issues can get blown out of proportion. From looking online, yes it can happen but lots of owners on the forum say much lower oil change intervals with better oil (I'll be giving Opie a call) can resolve the rattle on start up. I do the Saab every six month anyway too so I'm used to oil changes. It ends up getting a change every 5k miles or so with my current mileage.However they are good value compared to the equivalent E46 M3.
Warranty might not be a bad idea, with my pay rise it will make the monthly cost of it more than coverable.
I did however spy one online with just over 100k miles but already had a rebuild and suspension refresh, one like that may be a safer bet than a 75k miler with no rebuild possibly?
Every car has issues I suppose, hence my eyes open. I may run the car for a year and sell on, fancy a V8 for a while. 25mpg on a run may be generous, but it can help me justify it to myself
.This is second hand knowledge as a good friend has one, he bought for circa £9k about 2 years ago.
Timing Chain interval is something like 80,000 miles. That's a big expensive job as the chain is at the rear of the engine bay. As is the case with everything on that engine, it's expensive fix as the engine is a slight variation and I think a lot of components are specific to this engine only. Things like an auxiliary radiator work out as quite expensive, but still a bumper-off DIY job.
Tyres, disks and pads aren't particularly expensive so you won't loose out much on them. The alloys can corrode with age so might need a refurb to prevent slow leaks.
He did have a slow oil leak from the rear of the engine, was only spotted on a £500 clutch change.
Interior is generally pretty solid. Only think I remember not working was the rear-windscreen blind. All the other electronics seemed to work fine.
~18 MPG is what you'd expect around town and B-roads. 20 MPG on a run. 25 MPG if you really baby it at 60 mph on the motorway.
Fantastic car though. Goes like stink, solid grip in all conditions, nice place to be inside.
Timing Chain interval is something like 80,000 miles. That's a big expensive job as the chain is at the rear of the engine bay. As is the case with everything on that engine, it's expensive fix as the engine is a slight variation and I think a lot of components are specific to this engine only. Things like an auxiliary radiator work out as quite expensive, but still a bumper-off DIY job.
Tyres, disks and pads aren't particularly expensive so you won't loose out much on them. The alloys can corrode with age so might need a refurb to prevent slow leaks.
He did have a slow oil leak from the rear of the engine, was only spotted on a £500 clutch change.
Interior is generally pretty solid. Only think I remember not working was the rear-windscreen blind. All the other electronics seemed to work fine.
~18 MPG is what you'd expect around town and B-roads. 20 MPG on a run. 25 MPG if you really baby it at 60 mph on the motorway.
Fantastic car though. Goes like stink, solid grip in all conditions, nice place to be inside.
There is some complete b
ks being posted on this thread, there is no 80k service interval for the timing chain, it's a non service item fitted for life.
Also a clutch for £500 on an S4
more like add a 1 in front of it.
Anyone who's actually had one care to post something useful rather than second hand here say and Internet myth...
ks being posted on this thread, there is no 80k service interval for the timing chain, it's a non service item fitted for life.Also a clutch for £500 on an S4
more like add a 1 in front of it.Anyone who's actually had one care to post something useful rather than second hand here say and Internet myth...
my two penies worth:
I had a manual B6 S4 and on average I got 19/20 mpg. 25mpg on the motorway if you drive like a granny.
Look out for leaky auxillary radiators (either side of the main radiator) they tend to corrode because of leaves and crud etc. they are around £300/400 to replace each one.
Mine had an intermitent starting problem - never got to the bottom of the issue, but I think it may have been a faulty clutch switch.
Front tyres wear down (esp in the inside) very fast ~10k miles because of the heavy engine and engine overhang infront of the front wheels.
Lovely interior and very nice place to be. Very nice ride quality and built like a tank. Bose stereo was the best I've had in a car. It never seemed as fast as it should be for 340hp. I think the comment about coking is rubbish as these engines were not direct injection, i.e. had 40 valves, not 32 like the RS4. The car tends to understeer when pushed hard.
I'd say you need deep pockets to run this car even more so than a 335i for example. I only kept for a year as for the amount of money is sank it wasn't that engaging to drive. You can't even hear the V8 that loudly unless you put an aftermarket exhaust on it.
I had a manual B6 S4 and on average I got 19/20 mpg. 25mpg on the motorway if you drive like a granny.
Look out for leaky auxillary radiators (either side of the main radiator) they tend to corrode because of leaves and crud etc. they are around £300/400 to replace each one.
Mine had an intermitent starting problem - never got to the bottom of the issue, but I think it may have been a faulty clutch switch.
Front tyres wear down (esp in the inside) very fast ~10k miles because of the heavy engine and engine overhang infront of the front wheels.
Lovely interior and very nice place to be. Very nice ride quality and built like a tank. Bose stereo was the best I've had in a car. It never seemed as fast as it should be for 340hp. I think the comment about coking is rubbish as these engines were not direct injection, i.e. had 40 valves, not 32 like the RS4. The car tends to understeer when pushed hard.
I'd say you need deep pockets to run this car even more so than a 335i for example. I only kept for a year as for the amount of money is sank it wasn't that engaging to drive. You can't even hear the V8 that loudly unless you put an aftermarket exhaust on it.
Yeah, auto will do very nearly 30mpg if driven like a granny on the motorway. Around 25mpg is pushing on (not vmax mind...). I'm talking about my B7, but I don't think the facelift made any difference to the economy.
Auto is great, I'm don't have any real problems with it and it suits the car.
Edit - coking issue doesn't exist on the S4 but does on the RS4. Chain rattle can supposedly be avoided by avoiding the long-life servicing routine (20k miles), but using long-life oil on the 'normal' service routine (10k) (if that makes sense?). Given their age you can have them serviced at Audi on their fixed price servicing deal. I had a major service recently and Audi were only about £15 more than a local specialist.
Auto is great, I'm don't have any real problems with it and it suits the car.
Edit - coking issue doesn't exist on the S4 but does on the RS4. Chain rattle can supposedly be avoided by avoiding the long-life servicing routine (20k miles), but using long-life oil on the 'normal' service routine (10k) (if that makes sense?). Given their age you can have them serviced at Audi on their fixed price servicing deal. I had a major service recently and Audi were only about £15 more than a local specialist.
Edited by dave328 on Tuesday 17th March 12:41
If the OP only wants to hear owners experiences he's probably on the wrong forum. I've never had one but I did research them as a possible daily a couple of years ago. Sound aside I don't see much benefit over a mapped 1.8T or B7 2.0T quattro. The cam chains/tensioners would concern me on a car nearing 100k or that hadn't had the correct oil every 10k and/or annually. If a manual hadn't had a clutch/flywheel around the same mileage I'd bear that in mind too. Those 2 jobs at a garage could turn a straight £6k car into a breaker.
I used to have one of these (had it for 9 months) and its the only car I have ever had that I regretted getting rid of! When I had it, it was 5 years old and had about 90k miles on the clock and nothing ever went wrong with it. My only downsides where fuel costs and expensice insurance! I miss that car
I own a B7 S4, have done since July last year.
I bought it as generally they seem pretty reliable, other than the engine timing chain issue there doens't seem to be much that goes wrong with them. It's very hard to know how much of an issue this is, seems to be quite widely reported in the US, but can't recall seeing any problems from UK owners.
I bought it as generally they seem pretty reliable, other than the engine timing chain issue there doens't seem to be much that goes wrong with them. It's very hard to know how much of an issue this is, seems to be quite widely reported in the US, but can't recall seeing any problems from UK owners.
We've had a B6 S4 Avant auto and a B7 S4 Cabrio manual.
The auto box suited the car much, much better than the manual.
We averaged around 24mpg in both on a mix of pootling in traffic, cruising quickly down the motorways and opening them up on A / B roads.
We drove the cabrio to Tignes for skiing a couple of years back. It was a monumentally bad decision. Sitting at 90 on the autoroutes, the engine was spinning at close to 4,000rpm in 6th gear - it was bloody ridiculous and very waring to be for such a long time. We also averaged 21mpg!!!!!!
I cannot say it enough, the manual absolutely ruins a reasonably nice car.
Specific things to look for are pretty much all mentioned (timing chain rattle on startup, a preponderance to drink a little more oil than you would expect, a thirst for fuel (particularly around town or on the motorway in the manual).
In short, buy one - they are lovely cars, but do not buy a manual
The auto box suited the car much, much better than the manual.
We averaged around 24mpg in both on a mix of pootling in traffic, cruising quickly down the motorways and opening them up on A / B roads.
We drove the cabrio to Tignes for skiing a couple of years back. It was a monumentally bad decision. Sitting at 90 on the autoroutes, the engine was spinning at close to 4,000rpm in 6th gear - it was bloody ridiculous and very waring to be for such a long time. We also averaged 21mpg!!!!!!
I cannot say it enough, the manual absolutely ruins a reasonably nice car.
Specific things to look for are pretty much all mentioned (timing chain rattle on startup, a preponderance to drink a little more oil than you would expect, a thirst for fuel (particularly around town or on the motorway in the manual).
In short, buy one - they are lovely cars, but do not buy a manual
blade7 said:
If the OP only wants to hear owners experiences he's probably on the wrong forum. I've never had one but I did research them as a possible daily a couple of years ago. Sound aside I don't see much benefit over a mapped 1.8T or B7 2.0T quattro. The cam chains/tensioners would concern me on a car nearing 100k or that hadn't had the correct oil every 10k and/or annually. If a manual hadn't had a clutch/flywheel around the same mileage I'd bear that in mind too. Those 2 jobs at a garage could turn a straight £6k car into a breaker.
I'm also after any other ideas around similar money and type of car, hence on here. Whole reasoning of the S4 was the characterful engine. Some of the research does worry me but it's easy for OCs to be biased toward the car and horror stories to be pushed too hard. PH can get more 'debate' going. For the rads, I can change them out myself, luckily having another car if it takes a few days to fit in around work so could keep costs down. I've got 2 4-pot turbos at the moment and if I were to change I'd want a more characterful engine as my daily. Something V8, V6, straight 6 etc. Would just need a similar sort of car i.e. nice place to sit, faster than the Saab, comfortable on a run (I hardly ever drive in town) and with a bit of charm to it.
The saab walks away from 525s and 2.0T audi A4s, so it would be a backward step to go to one of them. Test drove a 2.0T B7, felt slow compared to the Saab which hasn't even been remapped.
older 540s? Or are they money pits by this point? E46 330? Looking for a wide range of opinions to send me off to look at a few.
I am biased, but I'd go for a 335i ! I've had it for just over four years which tells you something. It's interior is not as luxurious as an Audi, but the power delivery and straight 6 noise is just great and slightly more economical than a V8. Get a post March 2007 model and you won't be paying the high tax band and maintenance costs are not that much for the power. You could get an E90 or rare E91 or the E92 coupe for about the price you're looking at.
There has indeed been a lot of rubbish written in this thread already.
As an owner for 6 yrs, hopefully I can share my experiences;
click this thread; http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
...it's a link to a full breakdown on every cost, fuel bill and penny I've spent in 30k miles.
Also, there's a dedicated Audi forum so I'll move this thread into there for you (it should help with the info you get) [I'm a mod so can do this].
Hope that helps
As an owner for 6 yrs, hopefully I can share my experiences;
click this thread; http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
...it's a link to a full breakdown on every cost, fuel bill and penny I've spent in 30k miles.
Also, there's a dedicated Audi forum so I'll move this thread into there for you (it should help with the info you get) [I'm a mod so can do this].
Hope that helps
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