Can chronic alcohol use ever be a good thing?
Discussion
Just want to know if anybody’s had any experiences on dealing with a situation like this and what steps can be taken/advice can be given to rectify it!
My younger brother is a very caring, likeable, thoughtful chap but I’m sure suffers terribly with some sort of underlying, undetected social anxiety issue. He’s an extremely intelligent man and pretty normal by most people’s standards in terms of his appearance, personality, interests etc so it’s not “being different” that’s causing problems…. however he’s always found it hard to make friends, keep up with “witty” conversations amongst people he knows well, often ends up mumbling his words around or speaking too quickly or is just plain awkward in certain situations. His body language is often noticeably awkward too…and I know for a fact he realizes all of this but can’t seem to address it, which I think he finds terribly frustrating. Also, in the past year or two he’s found it difficult to make any new friends, and after a relationship break up a year ago he really does spend the majority of his time alone. Doesn’t seem unhappy as such, just reserved and solitary – doesn’t mope around indoors and goes out and does things, but always on his own!
The main problem however is his increasing use of alcohol to (as I’m sure he secretly thinks) turn him into the person he really is or should be. I have to admit, as does everyone I and He knows, after a few drinks (not so many to be drunk but maybe two or three) he is absolutely dazzling. Utterly uproarious, joyous, razor sharp wit and conversation, incredibly funny, affable, complimentary/ interested in and friendly to everyone he speaks to, extremely and easily confident without a single hint of arrogance, very popular with men and women alike ….. the genuine heart and soul of wherever he is. People gravitate towards him and he goes from outsider to absolute center of everyone’s world it seems!! And at no point does he seem to pushing it too far or be noticeably drunk. Just turns into a wonderful guy who’s company it is an absolute pleasure to be in. Utterly captivating.
The problem is I’m absolutely certain realizes all this and I know for a fact his alcohol use is increasing – I recently caught him (as I sat in traffic) downing one of those small 200ml bottles of wine before he went into work one morning outside his office after he locked his bicycle up. I also know he will regularly go for a beer on his own at lunch times, before meetings at work or before most social situations these days. I don’t however ever see him “drunk,” even on evenings out. It’s as if he just needs a quick shot of “personality juice” to get himself through social situations and he’s seems to absolutely relish in being able to be “himself” after a drink.
I know it’s a slippery slope but he genuinely is, or seems, such a happier and better person after a drink. How can I and our friends and even maybe our parents address this – I don’t think anybody else realizes what he’s doing and I haven’t brought it up just yet.
Some sort of personality issue than can be worked out? I’m just worried to approach it as the amount he drinks doesn’t seem too excessive, it’s HOW and WHY he’s using it that’s bugging me. Especially as it doesn’t (yet) seem to be having any downsides (that I’ve noticed anyway)
I think it’s very sad
My younger brother is a very caring, likeable, thoughtful chap but I’m sure suffers terribly with some sort of underlying, undetected social anxiety issue. He’s an extremely intelligent man and pretty normal by most people’s standards in terms of his appearance, personality, interests etc so it’s not “being different” that’s causing problems…. however he’s always found it hard to make friends, keep up with “witty” conversations amongst people he knows well, often ends up mumbling his words around or speaking too quickly or is just plain awkward in certain situations. His body language is often noticeably awkward too…and I know for a fact he realizes all of this but can’t seem to address it, which I think he finds terribly frustrating. Also, in the past year or two he’s found it difficult to make any new friends, and after a relationship break up a year ago he really does spend the majority of his time alone. Doesn’t seem unhappy as such, just reserved and solitary – doesn’t mope around indoors and goes out and does things, but always on his own!
The main problem however is his increasing use of alcohol to (as I’m sure he secretly thinks) turn him into the person he really is or should be. I have to admit, as does everyone I and He knows, after a few drinks (not so many to be drunk but maybe two or three) he is absolutely dazzling. Utterly uproarious, joyous, razor sharp wit and conversation, incredibly funny, affable, complimentary/ interested in and friendly to everyone he speaks to, extremely and easily confident without a single hint of arrogance, very popular with men and women alike ….. the genuine heart and soul of wherever he is. People gravitate towards him and he goes from outsider to absolute center of everyone’s world it seems!! And at no point does he seem to pushing it too far or be noticeably drunk. Just turns into a wonderful guy who’s company it is an absolute pleasure to be in. Utterly captivating.
The problem is I’m absolutely certain realizes all this and I know for a fact his alcohol use is increasing – I recently caught him (as I sat in traffic) downing one of those small 200ml bottles of wine before he went into work one morning outside his office after he locked his bicycle up. I also know he will regularly go for a beer on his own at lunch times, before meetings at work or before most social situations these days. I don’t however ever see him “drunk,” even on evenings out. It’s as if he just needs a quick shot of “personality juice” to get himself through social situations and he’s seems to absolutely relish in being able to be “himself” after a drink.
I know it’s a slippery slope but he genuinely is, or seems, such a happier and better person after a drink. How can I and our friends and even maybe our parents address this – I don’t think anybody else realizes what he’s doing and I haven’t brought it up just yet.
Some sort of personality issue than can be worked out? I’m just worried to approach it as the amount he drinks doesn’t seem too excessive, it’s HOW and WHY he’s using it that’s bugging me. Especially as it doesn’t (yet) seem to be having any downsides (that I’ve noticed anyway)
I think it’s very sad
PopsandBangs said:
The problem is I’m absolutely certain realizes all this and I know for a fact his alcohol use is increasing – I recently caught him (as I sat in traffic) downing one of those small 200ml bottles of wine before he went into work one morning outside his office after he locked his bicycle up.
I like to drink a lot, but before work or meetings?
Sounds like a classic functional alcoholic to me and getting him to admit it will be very, very hard. Having a few on a night out to loosen up is one thing, but tanking up before work? Absolutely way off the normal scale and something that should be setting off massive warning bells to you both.
He will need to want to get help himself, which means him acknowledging that he has a problem - but if you care about him at all, you need to confront him. Now.
He will need to want to get help himself, which means him acknowledging that he has a problem - but if you care about him at all, you need to confront him. Now.
Sounds a lot like he is just a little insecure or lacking in self confidence. Perhaps the alcohol is just allowing him to cross that line to be confident, a little dutch courage if you will.
However, I would strongly advise you get him some help. Talk to him and get him to understand that he is a great guy, who can be the life and soul, but you are concerned that he is using alcohol to make that step when we doesn't really need to.
Best of luck, it's a sensitive topic but hope you can tackle it with him. He stands a good chance with all the support from you and the family etc.
However, I would strongly advise you get him some help. Talk to him and get him to understand that he is a great guy, who can be the life and soul, but you are concerned that he is using alcohol to make that step when we doesn't really need to.
Best of luck, it's a sensitive topic but hope you can tackle it with him. He stands a good chance with all the support from you and the family etc.
Up until half way through I didn't see the problem. I drink too much on the weekend - might even have a cheeky Friday lunch pint.
Your brother has evidently crossed the line though, no clearer evidence than having a drink before work. As you say this is a slippery slope and the sooner it is addresses the better. Things WILL deteroriate if he doesn't take action soon.
Have a word with him ASAP. Hopefully you can nip it in the bud before things get any worse. Might be a personality issue now but it will become a much more serious issue before long.
Back in uni I was working in a pub in the summer holiday and would start drinking at 12 when I got in and finished 12 at night as I'd go to the bar next door our hang out after work.
Was always 'social drinking' but after a few weeks I felt like I needed something as I was waiting outside pub waiting for it to open. I'd had breakfast and a couple of fags so I knew it wasn't that but it was something missing in the same way - hunger, thirst etc...
Walked into pub and downed a half and felt 'normal', scared me s
tless and didn't drink for two weeks and been careful ever since. Can really creep up on you.
Love a drink so ensure my excess if met by some abstinence so I can keep doing it!
Good luck.
Your brother has evidently crossed the line though, no clearer evidence than having a drink before work. As you say this is a slippery slope and the sooner it is addresses the better. Things WILL deteroriate if he doesn't take action soon.
Have a word with him ASAP. Hopefully you can nip it in the bud before things get any worse. Might be a personality issue now but it will become a much more serious issue before long.
Back in uni I was working in a pub in the summer holiday and would start drinking at 12 when I got in and finished 12 at night as I'd go to the bar next door our hang out after work.
Was always 'social drinking' but after a few weeks I felt like I needed something as I was waiting outside pub waiting for it to open. I'd had breakfast and a couple of fags so I knew it wasn't that but it was something missing in the same way - hunger, thirst etc...
Walked into pub and downed a half and felt 'normal', scared me s
tless and didn't drink for two weeks and been careful ever since. Can really creep up on you. Love a drink so ensure my excess if met by some abstinence so I can keep doing it!
Good luck.
Edited by CountZero23 on Wednesday 18th March 12:02
deckster said:
Sounds like a classic functional alcoholic to me and getting him to admit it will be very, very hard. Having a few on a night out to loosen up is one thing, but tanking up before work? Absolutely way off the normal scale and something that should be setting off massive warning bells to you both.
He will need to want to get help himself, which means him acknowledging that he has a problem - but if you care about him at all, you need to confront him. Now.
this He will need to want to get help himself, which means him acknowledging that he has a problem - but if you care about him at all, you need to confront him. Now.
mph1977 said:
deckster said:
Sounds like a classic functional alcoholic to me and getting him to admit it will be very, very hard. Having a few on a night out to loosen up is one thing, but tanking up before work? Absolutely way off the normal scale and something that should be setting off massive warning bells to you both.
He will need to want to get help himself, which means him acknowledging that he has a problem - but if you care about him at all, you need to confront him. Now.
this He will need to want to get help himself, which means him acknowledging that he has a problem - but if you care about him at all, you need to confront him. Now.
If that happens you will be in a no win situation as the downward spiral kicks in.
What he needs to do is address the addiction to alcohol before it starts to ruin his life but also look at the underlying reason why he is so shy when sobre. Alcohol certainly makes us more relaxed and willing to take risks - in his case, he becomes more confident socially. He does not need this drug to become more confident but he cannot do this alone.
Having very recently lost a good friend to alcohol induced illness I can see similarities between him and the OP's brother.
It's tremendously sad that someone can believe that they are a "better" person with a few drinks on board which can quickly develop to a stage where they believe that they can only operate with the addition of alcohol.
The alcohol isn't the root cause it's a problem that's presenting itself as a solution, establishing what makes your brother feel that he is in some way restricted or unable to be himself is a primary objective as is him understanding that he must learn to recreate the relaxed feeling that alcohol gives him but without drinking.
The major issue you have is how to approach him without it leading to him becoming more secretive or feeling like you are analysing him. Showing your interest in his well being might be met with a degree of hostility or denial so you may have to be a tad brutal.
Best of luck.
It's tremendously sad that someone can believe that they are a "better" person with a few drinks on board which can quickly develop to a stage where they believe that they can only operate with the addition of alcohol.
The alcohol isn't the root cause it's a problem that's presenting itself as a solution, establishing what makes your brother feel that he is in some way restricted or unable to be himself is a primary objective as is him understanding that he must learn to recreate the relaxed feeling that alcohol gives him but without drinking.
The major issue you have is how to approach him without it leading to him becoming more secretive or feeling like you are analysing him. Showing your interest in his well being might be met with a degree of hostility or denial so you may have to be a tad brutal.
Best of luck.
You might be in for a rough ride OP, but you need to remember that if you care about your brother then it will be worth it.
I've got a good mate who is not dissimilar to your brother. Known the guy for 15 odd years and he (used) to be a really top bloke - life and soul of the party and everybody loves him when he's had a drink, but he just doesn't know when to call it quits.
I have tried to point out that his drinking is an issue but he has consistently refused to listen over several years - few examples which may seem familiar to some:
He used to pass out on the sofa when he was 'looking after' his kids (he's divorced) and let them fend for themselves, used to disappear for a couple of days on the piss but said he had 'family issues' and wouldn't bother to let work or anyone else know, used try to borrow money off me as he was always skint mid-month (he used to earn about 28k a year which is far, far more than I do) and he wrote off at least one car after a 12 hour session, slept behind the wheel for 2 hours and then claimed to have swerved to miss a dog… (I threatened to report him for drink driving if he ever did that sort of thing again).
He recently got sacked for having too many 'sick' days - turning up stinking of booze when you claim to have 'had the flu' for a suspiciously sort period of time does you no favours at all. So he now lives in a grotty bedsit on his own at the age of 48. He's got no realistic chance of finding another decent job and seems to be going downhill rapidly… I don't really want to witness this so I don't see him that much anymore.
Sad situation and I fear that the guy might be beyond help, but I have tried and tried to help but have still failed.
Even if your brother won't listen to you at first you still HAVE to give it a go, because watching someone you give damn about lose it all to the bottle is not pleasant.
I've got a good mate who is not dissimilar to your brother. Known the guy for 15 odd years and he (used) to be a really top bloke - life and soul of the party and everybody loves him when he's had a drink, but he just doesn't know when to call it quits.
I have tried to point out that his drinking is an issue but he has consistently refused to listen over several years - few examples which may seem familiar to some:
He used to pass out on the sofa when he was 'looking after' his kids (he's divorced) and let them fend for themselves, used to disappear for a couple of days on the piss but said he had 'family issues' and wouldn't bother to let work or anyone else know, used try to borrow money off me as he was always skint mid-month (he used to earn about 28k a year which is far, far more than I do) and he wrote off at least one car after a 12 hour session, slept behind the wheel for 2 hours and then claimed to have swerved to miss a dog… (I threatened to report him for drink driving if he ever did that sort of thing again).
He recently got sacked for having too many 'sick' days - turning up stinking of booze when you claim to have 'had the flu' for a suspiciously sort period of time does you no favours at all. So he now lives in a grotty bedsit on his own at the age of 48. He's got no realistic chance of finding another decent job and seems to be going downhill rapidly… I don't really want to witness this so I don't see him that much anymore.
Sad situation and I fear that the guy might be beyond help, but I have tried and tried to help but have still failed.
Even if your brother won't listen to you at first you still HAVE to give it a go, because watching someone you give damn about lose it all to the bottle is not pleasant.
as a young man- maybe 19/20, and having grown up with a dad who did drink heavily on occasion------- not odd nights or socially, but mental 2-3 benders, say every 3, or 6 mths etc...... he also drank and drove in this state.
anyway, he spent a lot of the 70's and 80's with no licence. still drove too--------- but I was too young to know.
anyway, by the time I was 19/20......... as a "man" ---- the next time he did it, and having warned him, I took his car off him and sold it at the auctions.
with my mothers consent I hasten to add.
my dad didn't drink to socialise or feel normal, he did it to escape awful things he experienced in the war. we were/are a v.posh family too- I went to a private school etc........... but underneath all that.......when alcohol gets hold of you, it doesn't let go.
anyway this is a pointless ramble, but its nice to let emotions go.
can you get him to AA: or his GP even as a starting point ?
my dad could get away with it in the day- different times.......... these days yr going to lose yr job instantly if yr found to be drunk.
then what: he has another drink to make up for the misery of it.
anyway, he spent a lot of the 70's and 80's with no licence. still drove too--------- but I was too young to know.
anyway, by the time I was 19/20......... as a "man" ---- the next time he did it, and having warned him, I took his car off him and sold it at the auctions.
with my mothers consent I hasten to add.
my dad didn't drink to socialise or feel normal, he did it to escape awful things he experienced in the war. we were/are a v.posh family too- I went to a private school etc........... but underneath all that.......when alcohol gets hold of you, it doesn't let go.
anyway this is a pointless ramble, but its nice to let emotions go.
can you get him to AA: or his GP even as a starting point ?
my dad could get away with it in the day- different times.......... these days yr going to lose yr job instantly if yr found to be drunk.
then what: he has another drink to make up for the misery of it.
I think the sneaking it in before work is where it oversteps the line. I have immediate relatives who are alcoholics, and when they start hiding it they know its not on. But it can be nearly impossible to get them to admit it.
I can talk from the other side of the fence as far as the anxiety thing is concerned though, as your brother sounds almost exactly like me. Very quiet and insular until Ive had a few at which point Im the life and soul. Unfortunately I then go on from there to the point where I become a bit of an animal and have consequently picked up a reputation amongst friends and workmates as being a party animal/liability as the night wears on. Im aware of it and do try to peg it back a bit, especially knowing I have a family rich with alcholics already, but its very difficult (read: impossible) to moderate it at the time.
Best you can do for your brother is be tactful about how you approach it and advise that maybe its best to nip it in the bud now before he steers himself down a path of ruin.
I can talk from the other side of the fence as far as the anxiety thing is concerned though, as your brother sounds almost exactly like me. Very quiet and insular until Ive had a few at which point Im the life and soul. Unfortunately I then go on from there to the point where I become a bit of an animal and have consequently picked up a reputation amongst friends and workmates as being a party animal/liability as the night wears on. Im aware of it and do try to peg it back a bit, especially knowing I have a family rich with alcholics already, but its very difficult (read: impossible) to moderate it at the time.
Best you can do for your brother is be tactful about how you approach it and advise that maybe its best to nip it in the bud now before he steers himself down a path of ruin.
Clearly he shouldn't be drinking before work, but if in other situations it's only 2-3 drinks to go from zero-to-hero, then what's the great harm?
Most of us have the same 2-3 in the same situations to get no better at all, and some of us carry on to 15 and get a lot, lot worse.
You say he spends most of his time alone, so that doesn't leave a lot of time for the 'chronic' drinking in social situations that you describe.
Most of us have the same 2-3 in the same situations to get no better at all, and some of us carry on to 15 and get a lot, lot worse.
You say he spends most of his time alone, so that doesn't leave a lot of time for the 'chronic' drinking in social situations that you describe.
Edited by SpeckledJim on Wednesday 18th March 14:26
Interesting thread... And sorry about the situation OP...
I can relate to your brother, I struggle to get my words out which knocks my confidence and contribution to conversation with anyone but my best friends.... But after a couple of drinks I'm fine and always in the middle of whats going on with everyone wanting to talk to me (yes, yes, worst I'm so popular when I'm tipsy comment ever)...
In my old job, I used to go out to the clubs on Wednesday nights, the Thursday mornings at work I'd still be a little drunk - everyone knew this, including my bosses - but they didn't mind, I was more productive and better on the phones selling than any other time in the week...
I'm not going to lie, I did consider having a small drink before work/at lunch on a regular basis - not because I was unhappy with life or anything, but purely because it opened that last little door of confidence to help me reach my full potential...
I decided against it though in case it lead to 2 drinks before work... then 3 drinks before work... etc. That's clearly where me and your brother differ.
If I knew that 100% it would never escalate to more than 1 drink before work and 1 at lunch, I'd probably say that its alright (though arguably that on its own is a bit too far) but realistically it'd only be a matter of time before it got worse!
I can relate to your brother, I struggle to get my words out which knocks my confidence and contribution to conversation with anyone but my best friends.... But after a couple of drinks I'm fine and always in the middle of whats going on with everyone wanting to talk to me (yes, yes, worst I'm so popular when I'm tipsy comment ever)...
In my old job, I used to go out to the clubs on Wednesday nights, the Thursday mornings at work I'd still be a little drunk - everyone knew this, including my bosses - but they didn't mind, I was more productive and better on the phones selling than any other time in the week...
I'm not going to lie, I did consider having a small drink before work/at lunch on a regular basis - not because I was unhappy with life or anything, but purely because it opened that last little door of confidence to help me reach my full potential...
I decided against it though in case it lead to 2 drinks before work... then 3 drinks before work... etc. That's clearly where me and your brother differ.
If I knew that 100% it would never escalate to more than 1 drink before work and 1 at lunch, I'd probably say that its alright (though arguably that on its own is a bit too far) but realistically it'd only be a matter of time before it got worse!
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