RE: ABD condemns new anti-road group
Tuesday 18th January 2005
ABD condemns new anti-road group
"Bad for safety, for communities, and for Britain"
The Association of British Drivers (ABD) has strongly condemned a new pressure group called Road Block, which has been set up as an umbrella organisation to co-ordinate anti road campaigners' efforts.
During the 1990's, anti-roads campaigners brought a complete end to the building and upgrading of roads in Britain. Through skilful lobbying and PR, they managed to convince both main political parties to adopt a rigorously anti car stance -- a position which turned out to be undeliverable in practice.
"This was a disaster for Britain," said the ABD's Nigel Humphries. "For ten years nothing happened except arguments -Britains transport infrastructure fell further behind other countries whilst councils focussed on making drivers unwelcome in a hundred different ways, ranging from reduced parking to traffic calming. Nothing was allowed that made life better for motorists."
This negative policy resulted in:
- No new trunk roads - increased congestion on existing motorways -No bypasses
- Heavy traffic grinding through towns and villages -No upgrades to main roads - more people killed in accidents due to heavy traffic loads on single carriageway A roads and poor quality dual carriageways
- No urban underpasses and relief roads - worsening urban congestion and mixing of traffic with pedestrians and cyclists to the detriment of all
The ABD said that "the increased congestion resulting from no project starts for for ten years was then used to blame motorists for using their cars too much, and hence to justify measures to actually make the roads worse on the basis that traffic would simply "disappear" if life were made unpleasant enough for drivers.
"And disappear it did - onto the motorways and country roads as people moved out of the town centre for their living, work and leisure.
"All the roads protesters achieved was to make people more dependant on their cars by encouraging them to move to where the roads already existed, but public transport didn't," said Humphries.
However, said the ABD, sense has begun to prevail, and, finally, roadbuilding is back on the agenda, though there is a long way to go:
- Some new motorways have been built and are planned - albeit tolled (such as the M6 Toll, above), which is not ideal
- New dual carriageways like the A120 in Essex have transformed journeys for thousands of people whilst improving the lot of people living in communities on the old road, and improving safety
- New graded junctions have appeared on the A1 (North East) and A45 (West Mids), taking away serious accident blackspots and saving lives
- New bypasses have finally been built around some of the communities that have campaigned for them for 40 years
"We must not let Road Block return us to the dark ages," said Humphries. "Britain has been strangled enough by these people. We need better facilities for everyone - drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, bus and rail passengers. And we need good planning to help people live nearer their places of work, and so reduce the demand on the transport system as a whole.
"Above all, we need an end to the nonsensical ideas of the anti-roads lobby."
Photo courtesy of ABD.
Discussion
As much as I love driving, I sometimes wonder if simply building more roads is a great long-term plan. If we build more roads, then more traffic will simply fill it up, and the newer, bigger roads become just as congested in a few years as they are right now. This means that more expansion becomes necessary again. So the logical question is, where does it stop?
Wouldn't it make more sense to invest in better rail services for the people who would rather not drive in the first place? I'd rather have those drivers just park up at the train station and commute to work anyway. What about better driver training to teach us how to use the roads more effieciently (i.e. better habbits)?
Building more motorways encourages more drivers onto the roads - so many of them see driving as a chore, and just make the whole experience that much more painful for those of us who actually prefer to drive, or need to drive. What say you all?
Wouldn't it make more sense to invest in better rail services for the people who would rather not drive in the first place? I'd rather have those drivers just park up at the train station and commute to work anyway. What about better driver training to teach us how to use the roads more effieciently (i.e. better habbits)?
Building more motorways encourages more drivers onto the roads - so many of them see driving as a chore, and just make the whole experience that much more painful for those of us who actually prefer to drive, or need to drive. What say you all?
I never understand the premise that more traffic will just fill the new space.
With the way the environment is going, alot of the heavy goods will likely end up on trains again in the next few decades, as HGV's transporting over huge distances become unviable forms of transport.
Chances are, with the proliferation of computing and networking, that many offices can now be "out of town" and make these traffic hot spots around cities less likely to grow in the future.
And the main point which can be argued now, is that who is actually going to be driving any more cars?
Is it in the last 10 years, 40% more traffic is on the roads? Everyone I know now who is over 17 and passed their driving test, drives a car.
So, how can traffic increase to fill the new capacity if there are not enough people to actually drive cars?
I think for the 40 odd billion we pay a year, a last decade of improvements across the UK should last alot longer than we imagine.
More roads = good. But on the same note, a decent public transport and rail network rebuild would go a long way too!
Dave
With the way the environment is going, alot of the heavy goods will likely end up on trains again in the next few decades, as HGV's transporting over huge distances become unviable forms of transport.
Chances are, with the proliferation of computing and networking, that many offices can now be "out of town" and make these traffic hot spots around cities less likely to grow in the future.
And the main point which can be argued now, is that who is actually going to be driving any more cars?
Is it in the last 10 years, 40% more traffic is on the roads? Everyone I know now who is over 17 and passed their driving test, drives a car.
So, how can traffic increase to fill the new capacity if there are not enough people to actually drive cars?
I think for the 40 odd billion we pay a year, a last decade of improvements across the UK should last alot longer than we imagine.
More roads = good. But on the same note, a decent public transport and rail network rebuild would go a long way too!
Dave
to say that building more roads merely adds to traffic growth is a frequently heard claim.
Pratically no new roads were built in the past 10 years and traffic kept growing-in line with economic growth.
In reality Public transport is only a viable alternative for some forms of commuter traffic.
Building new roads helps the regeneration of depressed areas-Is it a coincidence that the Hastings area is so depressed-with an an appalling road link to the rest of the country? and also improves safety as people no-longer pass through villages but travel on far safer dual carriageways.
Pratically no new roads were built in the past 10 years and traffic kept growing-in line with economic growth.
In reality Public transport is only a viable alternative for some forms of commuter traffic.
Building new roads helps the regeneration of depressed areas-Is it a coincidence that the Hastings area is so depressed-with an an appalling road link to the rest of the country? and also improves safety as people no-longer pass through villages but travel on far safer dual carriageways.
Public Transport is all well and good as long as it is availabe.
The day the government provides more affordable housing in town centres provided with public transport that works 24 hours a day is the only time you will stop more cars making it to the roads.
People need cars to get to work and visit relatives, go on days out etc due to the fact that the Public Transport is so poor. Once you've spent out on a car what's the point in then taking a bus to work each day which in most cases costs you the same as fuel insurance and wear and tear would in the same drive in a car?
Public Transport needs to be cheaper, more reliable and more frequent before people will return to it and until that time currently congested routes need to be looked at.
In Sussex for example the main A27 across teh back of Worthing has needed a bypass for nearly 15 years (this is when it was first talked about) putting public transport in place here will not help as it is a small single carriageway A road joining 2 dual carriageway sections. These are the roads that need to be improved to aid traffic flow, reduce pollution and improve safety.
See the non dual carriage way sections in this pic.
MAP
>> Edited by ridds on Tuesday 18th January 11:52
The day the government provides more affordable housing in town centres provided with public transport that works 24 hours a day is the only time you will stop more cars making it to the roads.
People need cars to get to work and visit relatives, go on days out etc due to the fact that the Public Transport is so poor. Once you've spent out on a car what's the point in then taking a bus to work each day which in most cases costs you the same as fuel insurance and wear and tear would in the same drive in a car?
Public Transport needs to be cheaper, more reliable and more frequent before people will return to it and until that time currently congested routes need to be looked at.
In Sussex for example the main A27 across teh back of Worthing has needed a bypass for nearly 15 years (this is when it was first talked about) putting public transport in place here will not help as it is a small single carriageway A road joining 2 dual carriageway sections. These are the roads that need to be improved to aid traffic flow, reduce pollution and improve safety.
See the non dual carriage way sections in this pic.
MAP
>> Edited by ridds on Tuesday 18th January 11:52
Mr Whippy said:
And the main point which can be argued now, is that who is actually going to be driving any more cars?
Is it in the last 10 years, 40% more traffic is on the roads? Everyone I know now who is over 17 and passed their driving test, drives a car.
So, how can traffic increase to fill the new capacity if there are not enough people to actually drive cars?
Dave
I think the argument goes that better roads = drivers will commute further rather than more people are driving.
Rob
I think its time for a back to basics. There are so many cars on the road because there are so many people in this country. I could be wrong, but I believe we are the most densely populated country in Europe. So, the way to solve the problem is:
1) Define a maximum population target for the UK and stop all immigration unless the population is below it.
2) Compulsory abortion for any girl made pregnant before she is 16.
3) Stop child benefit.
4) Tax any family with more than two children.
Once the population growth is stopped, things will be a lot easier to plan for. Roads can be built or upgraded based on the journeys people make and traffic issues rather than the continually swelling number of cars on the road.
1) Define a maximum population target for the UK and stop all immigration unless the population is below it.
2) Compulsory abortion for any girl made pregnant before she is 16.
3) Stop child benefit.
4) Tax any family with more than two children.
Once the population growth is stopped, things will be a lot easier to plan for. Roads can be built or upgraded based on the journeys people make and traffic issues rather than the continually swelling number of cars on the road.
In Britain, I think we have the worst maintained roads in Europe, especially the backroads in the country. Only the roads in India seem worse. Road transport is of great importance and the motorists here have have a very poor deal since this 'government' came to power. We need some intelligent consideration given to road transport, and action to restore the public's faith and respect for the police who seem now to be uninterested in fighting crimes if it doesnt involve fleecing some law abiding motorist who strays slightly over the arbitarily set and outdated speed limits.
I think the worst thing about the roads in this country are the restrictions - by that I mean speed humps, bus-only areas, no right/left turns, junctions where the minority has priority, ridiculously low speed limits and reduced size/availability of parking spaces (I am perfectly within my rights to buy and drive a 20ft long Cadillac in this country so I expect to be able to park it).
The ABD are right, it's not just the reduced roadbuilding that's the problem, but the anti-progress types who cause arguments in the first place. By arguing about anything to do with transport and blocking development of anything we have been put behind and that's not just on the roads, but on the railways as well. If I can commute by train I will do, simply because when it works it is faster, more direct and I don't have to pay to park it.
We don't need pro- or anti- anything in this country, we just need common sense and an affinity with the facts, or else life is going to become hell (if it isn't already) for people just trying to get by without constantly agreeing with Bliar or a bunch of enviro-maniacs who can't see beyond the end of their noses.
The ABD are right, it's not just the reduced roadbuilding that's the problem, but the anti-progress types who cause arguments in the first place. By arguing about anything to do with transport and blocking development of anything we have been put behind and that's not just on the roads, but on the railways as well. If I can commute by train I will do, simply because when it works it is faster, more direct and I don't have to pay to park it.
We don't need pro- or anti- anything in this country, we just need common sense and an affinity with the facts, or else life is going to become hell (if it isn't already) for people just trying to get by without constantly agreeing with Bliar or a bunch of enviro-maniacs who can't see beyond the end of their noses.
vladd said:
1) Define a maximum population target for the UK and stop all immigration unless the population is below it.
2) Compulsory abortion for any girl made pregnant before she is 16.
3) Stop child benefit.
4) Tax any family with more than two children.
Point 1) Fair enough
Point 2) Also doesn't seem too bad an idea, although a tad draconian
Point 3) I think stopping it altogether would be unreasonable, although I think it should only be paid on the first two children (to try and discourage the council house scum who have loads of kids just so that they can make more money from the system.
Point 4) Welcome to China!!!
Back on topic, if they stopped giving money in state handouts to these tree hugging parasites, perhaps they could invest it in the transport infrastructure in general. How can you be actively seeking work when living in a tunnel under the ground?
We need more roads AND better public transport, then at least people would have the power to choose.
To add to the list above:-
5) Ban ridiculously oversized 4x4's from clogging the roads twice a day whilst Mum drops off/picks up little Johnny from school
vladd said:
I think its time for a back to basics. There are so many cars on the road because there are so many people in this country. I could be wrong, but I believe we are the most densely populated country in Europe. So, the way to solve the problem is:
1) Define a maximum population target for the UK and stop all immigration unless the population is below it.
2) Compulsory abortion for any girl made pregnant before she is 16.
3) Stop child benefit.
4) Tax any family with more than two children.
Once the population growth is stopped, things will be a lot easier to plan for. Roads can be built or upgraded based on the journeys people make and traffic issues rather than the continually swelling number of cars on the road.
The problem is another, as the main problem the UK is passing through is the lack of growth.
The UK needs currently to import people, otherwise there would be a point where everybody would be of pension age with few people to pay for them all.
The child benefits are in fact, to encourage new blood.
And there are other measures on the way starting in Scotland, and that is to attract young people, University age to come to the UK and stay to work.
I take it you don't have kids, right? Well, someday you will have to worry about this. Check who's going to pay your pension.
The car problem comes from other places.
-Chavscum and benefit-abusing people that don't have insurance or license need to stop.
-an incentive needs to exist to destroy cars.
-Housing developers need to understand and start developing taking cars into consideration. Every house needs an inbuilt garage at least.
-need to make more multistore parking buildings.
-need to have better, wider roads.
-should think about things some countries have done for years, like synchronized stopping lights and alternate plate circulation.
-incentive should be given to trade older cars to scrap, like in the form of a tax reduction so it's worth for the dealer.
There's all sort of things that need to be done, but decreasing the birth rate will only sink the UK faster.
I thought the Subject was "NEW anti-Road group"
If this 2005 Group has been taking note of the complete capitulation of Law and order(Joke)that the Bliar group allowed, when the Huntingdon Life Science,s demo,s were allowed to take over power, while Nothing was Done--YOU have a BIG problem.
I forgot--- it is Election year !!!! so all quiet untill mid May,??.
If this 2005 Group has been taking note of the complete capitulation of Law and order(Joke)that the Bliar group allowed, when the Huntingdon Life Science,s demo,s were allowed to take over power, while Nothing was Done--YOU have a BIG problem.
I forgot--- it is Election year !!!! so all quiet untill mid May,??.
I had not used the trains for many years. I took a rail journey from Essex to Leicester - it took twice as long as by car and the single fare was about £40. I resolved to use my car in future.
As the government stopped all new road building for about three years they must have saved a fortune. Is it time to ask for that saving to be invested in a lump sum now on our roads?
As bus lanes are found to be a failure, isn't it time the government and councils removed the few that remain? The government have gone quiet on them and hope they will fade away unoticed = they should be man enough to recommend their removal to the councils.
I agree with a previous remark: we are the most crowded country in Europe, and we therefore need to limit the population explosion. I think our population has increased over 10% in the last 40 years.
Who was it that said you are never more than half an hour from a traffic jam? It takes the fun out of driving!
As the government stopped all new road building for about three years they must have saved a fortune. Is it time to ask for that saving to be invested in a lump sum now on our roads?
As bus lanes are found to be a failure, isn't it time the government and councils removed the few that remain? The government have gone quiet on them and hope they will fade away unoticed = they should be man enough to recommend their removal to the councils.
I agree with a previous remark: we are the most crowded country in Europe, and we therefore need to limit the population explosion. I think our population has increased over 10% in the last 40 years.
Who was it that said you are never more than half an hour from a traffic jam? It takes the fun out of driving!
These anti-road groups fail to realise the basic issue:
Most people who use the roads are using them because they HAVE to.
Once you realise this, two basic principles are revealed: 1) People should be encouraged to live near their work (not beaten there - but genuinely helped), and 2) High taxation and government waste are INCREASING the retirement age - if everyone retired 5 years earlier about 10% of the cars of the road would disappear + some lorries (as consumption reduces).
As transport and road groups fail to make this fundamental connection anything they do tends to be pxxing in the wind although more road capacity gives some temporary relief.
Most people who use the roads are using them because they HAVE to.
Once you realise this, two basic principles are revealed: 1) People should be encouraged to live near their work (not beaten there - but genuinely helped), and 2) High taxation and government waste are INCREASING the retirement age - if everyone retired 5 years earlier about 10% of the cars of the road would disappear + some lorries (as consumption reduces).
As transport and road groups fail to make this fundamental connection anything they do tends to be pxxing in the wind although more road capacity gives some temporary relief.
[/quote]
5) Ban ridiculously oversized 4x4's from clogging the roads twice a day whilst Mum drops off/picks up little Johnny from school
[/quote] Please stop making rediculous ill informed comments like this. If you look at the footprint (space taken up on the road) and not the visual size of the car then the 4x4s are comparable to the saloons in that price bracket. Freelander / Mondeo, Range Rover / 7 Series Beemer etc etc.
It is this division in pro-motoring opinion that gives these anti motoring crack pots a good shot at success. What do you think they will be after when they have finished with the 4x4?
Ed said:Doesn't feel like it when trying to squeeze into the slot next to one in a multi-story car park
If you look at the footprint (space taken up on the road) and not the visual size of the car then the 4x4s are comparable to the saloons in that price bracket. Freelander / Mondeo, Range Rover / 7 Series Beemer etc etc.
Rich...whoateallthepies said:
1) Define a maximum population target for the UK and stop all immigration unless the population is below it.
2) Compulsory abortion for any girl made pregnant before she is 16.
3) Stop child benefit.
4) Tax any family with more than two children.
Point 3) I think stopping it altogether would be unreasonable, although I think it should only be paid on the first two children (to try and discourage the council house scum who have loads of kids just so that they can make more money from the system.
Why should you get child benefit at all?
ubergreg said:
As much as I love driving, I sometimes wonder if simply building more roads is a great long-term plan. If we build more roads, then more traffic will simply fill it up, and the newer, bigger roads become just as congested in a few years as they are right now. This means that more expansion becomes necessary again. So the logical question is, where does it stop?
Wouldn't it make more sense to invest in better rail services for the people who would rather not drive in the first place? I'd rather have those drivers just park up at the train station and commute to work anyway. What about better driver training to teach us how to use the roads more effieciently (i.e. better habbits)?
Building more motorways encourages more drivers onto the roads - so many of them see driving as a chore, and just make the whole experience that much more painful for those of us who actually prefer to drive, or need to drive. What say you all?
I aggree but how many railways will you have to build to carry the mass that is already using roads bit of a catch 22 situation. The problem is there simply is not enough money from normal taxation to pay and charging road users is the only short term solution viable. It will come at a price and thats not money but ultimately our freedom of right to move around as we please.
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