Receivers in, made redundant without prior warning
Discussion
Hi
Sorry, I am a forum member of well over a decade but my username plus the details in this post will make me easily identifiable to my former employer, so I've created a new account.
Today the company I worked for called a meeting for all of it's UK employees. But certain people had to attend the meeting in certain areas. Camp X in this room, camp Y in that room...
Those in camp Y were told - "you're now redundant with no notice".
Where do these people stand? I know little about employment law, but from a bit of googling it seems there should have been a consultation? Does being in receivership make a difference to this?
During the meeting I wondered if the short notice (not enough time for consulting) meant that due to no time, they can only keep or sack whole departments? This isn't what they've done, though - which makes me wonder about consultation. It's mostly whole departments / shifts, but in a few areas, certain people from certain departments have been ditched. From a bit of googling, there is no mention of this - you consult and have meetings in this case, apparently.
Could someone in the know please summarise how the difference is in our case?
The company went into receivership today. Some shifts/departments were dismissed as redundant. Also some individuals within certain departments were dismissed as redundant without warning or consultation, while the rest of the department remained.
Oh the numbers - very, very much over 20!
Sorry, I am a forum member of well over a decade but my username plus the details in this post will make me easily identifiable to my former employer, so I've created a new account.
Today the company I worked for called a meeting for all of it's UK employees. But certain people had to attend the meeting in certain areas. Camp X in this room, camp Y in that room...
Those in camp Y were told - "you're now redundant with no notice".
Where do these people stand? I know little about employment law, but from a bit of googling it seems there should have been a consultation? Does being in receivership make a difference to this?
During the meeting I wondered if the short notice (not enough time for consulting) meant that due to no time, they can only keep or sack whole departments? This isn't what they've done, though - which makes me wonder about consultation. It's mostly whole departments / shifts, but in a few areas, certain people from certain departments have been ditched. From a bit of googling, there is no mention of this - you consult and have meetings in this case, apparently.
Could someone in the know please summarise how the difference is in our case?
The company went into receivership today. Some shifts/departments were dismissed as redundant. Also some individuals within certain departments were dismissed as redundant without warning or consultation, while the rest of the department remained.
Oh the numbers - very, very much over 20!
What happens next will large depend on if this is a voluntary (Liquidation/Administration) or compulsory winding up (Receivership).
The quickest way to find out will be to contact your local official receivers office.
https://www.gov.uk/contact-official-receiver
If it is actual receivership you should find it at the Gazette but perhaps not for a few days.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk
In your shoes, a compulsory winding up (receivership) is actually better because the government will pay you every thing you are owed including statutory minimum redundancy. In a voluntary winding up there is a very good chance they try to screw you and all the other creditors over.
The quickest way to find out will be to contact your local official receivers office.
https://www.gov.uk/contact-official-receiver
If it is actual receivership you should find it at the Gazette but perhaps not for a few days.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk
In your shoes, a compulsory winding up (receivership) is actually better because the government will pay you every thing you are owed including statutory minimum redundancy. In a voluntary winding up there is a very good chance they try to screw you and all the other creditors over.
Edited by Martin4x4 on Sunday 5th April 19:01
talons said:
mikees said:
If the companies dead normal consultation goes out of the window
Thanks, but that isn't the most useful post.Martin4x4 said:
What happens next will large depend on if this is a voluntary or compulsory winding up.
The quickest way to find out will be to contact your local official receivers office.
https://www.gov.uk/contact-official-receiver
In your shoes, a compulsory winding up is actually better because the government will pay you every things you are owed and the statutory minimum redundancy. In a voluntary winding up the there is a very good chance they try to screw you and all the other creditors.
Thanks, I'm slightly less concerned now. The receivers are Deloittes, and they didn't show up in the quick couple of searches I just tried. They've told us that the government will sort it, which suggests compulsory as you said. Obviously for a lot of us the money is the main thing (paying bills, not compo!)The quickest way to find out will be to contact your local official receivers office.
https://www.gov.uk/contact-official-receiver
In your shoes, a compulsory winding up is actually better because the government will pay you every things you are owed and the statutory minimum redundancy. In a voluntary winding up the there is a very good chance they try to screw you and all the other creditors.
talons said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
But pretty much how it is. If the company goes into administration the administrators often just send people home, with the government picking up the redundancy costs.
Yes, I noticed! It still wasn't a very useful post...In this type of situation then you are likely to get statutory minimum at best.
The haphazard nature of the 'selection' is probably because they need to keep the business ticking over and bringing in some money whilst reducing as much overhead as possible. This means more cash for creditors and a better position for a sale.
If you are dismissed without notice though and your contract or length of service means you have a long notice period then this is a breach of contract. You will need to follow the correct process to make a claim and hope you get near the front of the queue. Do it quick and do it now or you can kiss goodbye to any slim chance of seeing any of that money.
The haphazard nature of the 'selection' is probably because they need to keep the business ticking over and bringing in some money whilst reducing as much overhead as possible. This means more cash for creditors and a better position for a sale.
If you are dismissed without notice though and your contract or length of service means you have a long notice period then this is a breach of contract. You will need to follow the correct process to make a claim and hope you get near the front of the queue. Do it quick and do it now or you can kiss goodbye to any slim chance of seeing any of that money.
This happened to me 6 years ago. The majority of the company were sent home immediately, a small number were kept on to help the administrators - really just to identify assets, data, HR information, stuff like that.
This happened shortly before pay day - those that left didn't get paid that month, and didn't get their expenses. They also had to wait some months to be paid the statutory minimum by the government. Company cars were repossessed immediately (other than one that happened to be parked in an airport car park in Belfast, which was found many months later). IT equipment was never taken back, no idea why.
It's painful, but if the company isn't capable of trading, notice periods are irrelevant.
This happened shortly before pay day - those that left didn't get paid that month, and didn't get their expenses. They also had to wait some months to be paid the statutory minimum by the government. Company cars were repossessed immediately (other than one that happened to be parked in an airport car park in Belfast, which was found many months later). IT equipment was never taken back, no idea why.
It's painful, but if the company isn't capable of trading, notice periods are irrelevant.
This happened to me a couple of years ago.
At least half the company let go day one. As it was just short of pay day they didn't get paid for that month.
I managed another couple of weeks and got paid, I was lucky.
Stat minimum redundancy.
No notice.
The people they kept on where to make the sale to other companies of assets and contracts (we were an IT consultancy) some bits got sold off but it was handled badly and lots of customers jumped ship so nothing of value was left.
It took those who missed the months wages and expenses etc several years to get what they were owed.
Good luck.
At least half the company let go day one. As it was just short of pay day they didn't get paid for that month.
I managed another couple of weeks and got paid, I was lucky.
Stat minimum redundancy.
No notice.
The people they kept on where to make the sale to other companies of assets and contracts (we were an IT consultancy) some bits got sold off but it was handled badly and lots of customers jumped ship so nothing of value was left.
It took those who missed the months wages and expenses etc several years to get what they were owed.
Good luck.
I may well appear overly pedantic but unless you get the terminology right which most in this thread have not, no meaningful advice can be given
The company has most likely not entered 'into receivership' meaning there are no 'receivers'. Receivership, or Administrative Receivership to give it's full title, is very rare these days. Far more likely is that it's in administration, meaning there are administrators.
With administration, standard process is for a 'notice of intent to appoint' to be lodged, which takes a maximum of 5 working days unless an extension is applied for. The Insolvency Practitioner (IP) becomes the administrator at the end of that process and it is rare for the administrator to turn up and make redundancies until he/she is appointed. Once they are appointed, they have to tell you (and all creditors) that the company is in administration
The OR office (official receiver) that some on here mention is a red herring - they only deal with compulsory winding ups which given what the OP mentions, is almost certainly not the case in this instance
The other alternative is liquidation - in that instance, it's far more common for the IP to turn up and assist with redundancies prior to the company actually entering into liquidation (normally a 2 - 3 week process between sending out Section 98 notices for a creditors meeting and the company actually entering into liquidation). It's very common for redundancies to take place on or around the day the notices get sent out, but in that instance, it's actually the company making the redundancies, not the IP, because the IP has no power until the company is actually in liquidation
So I go back to my first point - without having some accuracy as to the specific circumstances, difficult to advise with any accuracy. But in general terms, those who have said 'all bets are off' in insolvency are essentially correct - no requirement for the normal consultation period. Having said that, if there is to be a newco or some other kind of rescue, those made redundant may have some TUPE rights to claim for redundancy payouts that are not capped by the statutory maximums, as the newco might be liable, as opposed to the government bail out scheme which has caps in place for higher earners
The company has most likely not entered 'into receivership' meaning there are no 'receivers'. Receivership, or Administrative Receivership to give it's full title, is very rare these days. Far more likely is that it's in administration, meaning there are administrators.
With administration, standard process is for a 'notice of intent to appoint' to be lodged, which takes a maximum of 5 working days unless an extension is applied for. The Insolvency Practitioner (IP) becomes the administrator at the end of that process and it is rare for the administrator to turn up and make redundancies until he/she is appointed. Once they are appointed, they have to tell you (and all creditors) that the company is in administration
The OR office (official receiver) that some on here mention is a red herring - they only deal with compulsory winding ups which given what the OP mentions, is almost certainly not the case in this instance
The other alternative is liquidation - in that instance, it's far more common for the IP to turn up and assist with redundancies prior to the company actually entering into liquidation (normally a 2 - 3 week process between sending out Section 98 notices for a creditors meeting and the company actually entering into liquidation). It's very common for redundancies to take place on or around the day the notices get sent out, but in that instance, it's actually the company making the redundancies, not the IP, because the IP has no power until the company is actually in liquidation
So I go back to my first point - without having some accuracy as to the specific circumstances, difficult to advise with any accuracy. But in general terms, those who have said 'all bets are off' in insolvency are essentially correct - no requirement for the normal consultation period. Having said that, if there is to be a newco or some other kind of rescue, those made redundant may have some TUPE rights to claim for redundancy payouts that are not capped by the statutory maximums, as the newco might be liable, as opposed to the government bail out scheme which has caps in place for higher earners
Edited by jonby on Saturday 4th April 08:37
I went through this too about a decade ago with a big Plc company ended up with redundancy and leiu of notice paid by the government. Administrators asked for volunteers to leave the first day, 2nd day numbers were reduced to about 10% while a new buyer was looked for, didn't happen, 6 weeks later that was the end of the company and the auctions started
guess it's the huge paper company in Northampton a very hard one for the administrators to find a new owner as they will only have a few weeks, shares suspended, big money problems..a new owner would certainly need some capitol to take them over
Met a few of the guys as I brought off them,and placed orders with them nearly every working day, hope they can find new employment quickly
guess it's the huge paper company in Northampton a very hard one for the administrators to find a new owner as they will only have a few weeks, shares suspended, big money problems..a new owner would certainly need some capitol to take them over
Met a few of the guys as I brought off them,and placed orders with them nearly every working day, hope they can find new employment quickly
Edited by Viper on Saturday 4th April 18:37
Martin4x4 said:
Monkeylegend said:
CHIEF said:
Was this company in the paper industry by any chance?
Possibly according to the post above yours 
So without very good reason to ignore that request it should be respected.
yajeed said:
Monkeylegend said:
It's in the public domain so no secret.
Where in the public domain does it say 'Talons works for said paper industry company?'. Clearly the OP wanted to keep the identify of his employer quiet, so unless he says otherwise, it'd be respectful to do so .
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