Discussion
IMHO It won't improve handling it will alter it.
A properly set up Cerb should be progressive & predictable.
Damping, compliance, geometry, tyres, drivetrain all need to work in harmony to achieve this.
I would look to a decent garage specialising on this field to get the most out of your Cerb and tailor the handling to suit you. Money well spent.
A properly set up Cerb should be progressive & predictable.
Damping, compliance, geometry, tyres, drivetrain all need to work in harmony to achieve this.
I would look to a decent garage specialising on this field to get the most out of your Cerb and tailor the handling to suit you. Money well spent.
jamieduff1981 said:
Tanguero did IIRC. It ruined his next lap time and he refitted it immediately as I remember it.
I'm sure Tanguero will be along to comment, but from memory, the rest of the story is that a fellow Cerb owner had removed his rear ARB and was 2-3 seconds a lap faster at a sprint competition, so Tanguero removed his to see how it handled. And yes it was put back immediately! All down to individual driving style I guess.
As I recall it the ARB removal was pioneered by Martin Short at Rollcentre racing and his GT Cerbera race car.
The chap I bought my first cerb from had (back in 99/00) removed the ARB, fitted Nitrons and also fitted 18" RL7s.
I am not sure if it worked for him but when I bought the car in 02 the nitrons had been replaced with some original TVR blancmange shocks but still without the ARB (I believe it had been cut and removed rather than tied out the way). It handled ok but I had nothing to compare it to. The next owner decided to drive it into a lamppost.
I personally would leave the ARB and spend money on geo, shocks, springs, tyres....
The chap I bought my first cerb from had (back in 99/00) removed the ARB, fitted Nitrons and also fitted 18" RL7s.
I am not sure if it worked for him but when I bought the car in 02 the nitrons had been replaced with some original TVR blancmange shocks but still without the ARB (I believe it had been cut and removed rather than tied out the way). It handled ok but I had nothing to compare it to. The next owner decided to drive it into a lamppost.
I personally would leave the ARB and spend money on geo, shocks, springs, tyres....
My rear ARB is disconnected and tied up out of the way.
The difference it made to the car was that it made the whole set up more predictable, she send a telegram to me before she starts to slide now and is more catch-able as a result.
If you want to be a hooligan you can be, jump on the power early coming out of a bend and you can hold a lovely very controllable power slide. Drive the car properly and she does seem slightly more grippy than she used to be at the rear and she is easier to push into under steer on corner entry, Paddock Hill bend became a lovely grin inspiring corner for me with slight under steer on the way in becoming a 4 wheel drift once back on the power, sublime. I have since increased front end grip by increasing the negative camber at the front, now neutral handling.
I would agree with hardening up the rear a bit to compensate, I have ended up changing springs and shocks all round but that is because I like a harder car under me for the track use she get put to, for more road use Nitron Dampers should suffice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqSyn-lVgLg&fe...
She handle OK I think.
The difference it made to the car was that it made the whole set up more predictable, she send a telegram to me before she starts to slide now and is more catch-able as a result.
If you want to be a hooligan you can be, jump on the power early coming out of a bend and you can hold a lovely very controllable power slide. Drive the car properly and she does seem slightly more grippy than she used to be at the rear and she is easier to push into under steer on corner entry, Paddock Hill bend became a lovely grin inspiring corner for me with slight under steer on the way in becoming a 4 wheel drift once back on the power, sublime. I have since increased front end grip by increasing the negative camber at the front, now neutral handling.
I would agree with hardening up the rear a bit to compensate, I have ended up changing springs and shocks all round but that is because I like a harder car under me for the track use she get put to, for more road use Nitron Dampers should suffice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqSyn-lVgLg&fe...
She handle OK I think.
Edited by gruffalo on Tuesday 7th April 18:32
djstevec said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Tanguero did IIRC. It ruined his next lap time and he refitted it immediately as I remember it.
I'm sure Tanguero will be along to comment, but from memory, the rest of the story is that a fellow Cerb owner had removed his rear ARB and was 2-3 seconds a lap faster at a sprint competition, so Tanguero removed his to see how it handled. And yes it was put back immediately! All down to individual driving style I guess.
My money will always go on geometry before removing bits - but each to their own.
djstevec said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Tanguero did IIRC. It ruined his next lap time and he refitted it immediately as I remember it.
I'm sure Tanguero will be along to comment, but from memory, the rest of the story is that a fellow Cerb owner had removed his rear ARB and was 2-3 seconds a lap faster at a sprint competition, so Tanguero removed his to see how it handled. And yes it was put back immediately! All down to individual driving style I guess.
Others have tried it and had it work well for them. The only way to find out if it works for you on your cars particular setup is to try it. Disconnect it and cable tie it up out of the way and see what works.
Interesting that you got severe under steer, mine is very progressive and can be corrected by either a gentle lift or a light dab on the brakes to put more weight on the front.
As mentioned the best way is to try it and see.
The bloke you hear in the video is another Cerbera owner, he seemed to quite like how the car felt you may as well if you try it. I wasn't sure I would at first so it is just tied up out the way, has been for at least two years now.
The biggest difference I would say you will notice immediately is the car offers you a lot more feed back near the limit of adhesion, some like that others don't.
As mentioned the best way is to try it and see.
The bloke you hear in the video is another Cerbera owner, he seemed to quite like how the car felt you may as well if you try it. I wasn't sure I would at first so it is just tied up out the way, has been for at least two years now.
The biggest difference I would say you will notice immediately is the car offers you a lot more feed back near the limit of adhesion, some like that others don't.
I have to disagree with this, my car was set up with the ARB and I disconnected it at Snetterton and did back to back tests, I prefered the extra feed back from the rear of the car with it removed.
The ARB does not effect the Geo or spring rating or damper settings or any of that it just helps control lean.
The ARB does not effect the Geo or spring rating or damper settings or any of that it just helps control lean.
I would say you got lucky there.. Peter had the opposite thoughts after doing the same.
ARB does affect spring rates and damper settings though. As you effectively loose some rear spring rate whilst cornering (over simplified) you would increase them to compensate. However you gain a more independent rear suspension setup, and more rear end grip.
ARB does affect spring rates and damper settings though. As you effectively loose some rear spring rate whilst cornering (over simplified) you would increase them to compensate. However you gain a more independent rear suspension setup, and more rear end grip.
Jhonno said:
I would say you got lucky there.. Peter had the opposite thoughts after doing the same.
ARB does affect spring rates and damper settings though. As you effectively loose some rear spring rate whilst cornering (over simplified) you would increase them to compensate. However you gain a more independent rear suspension setup, and more rear end grip.
I agree about the effective spring rate when cornering but they are still the same for an axle wide compression.ARB does affect spring rates and damper settings though. As you effectively loose some rear spring rate whilst cornering (over simplified) you would increase them to compensate. However you gain a more independent rear suspension setup, and more rear end grip.
It was the extra rear end grip that for me was most noticeable, not sure that makes me lucky it was the outcome I was looking for. I have now, as mentioned, fitted stiffer springs front and rear.
My view is that the OP should give it a try and see if they like it, different driving styles will also have an impact on how the car reacts with a more pliable rear end.
gruffalo said:
I agree about the effective spring rate when cornering but they are still the same for an axle wide compression.
It was the extra rear end grip that for me was most noticeable, not sure that makes me lucky it was the outcome I was looking for. I have now, as mentioned, fitted stiffer springs front and rear.
My view is that the OP should give it a try and see if they like it, different driving styles will also have an impact on how the car reacts with a more pliable rear end.
Well lucky in that for someone else that rear end grip meant they felt it was too understeer biased.. It was the extra rear end grip that for me was most noticeable, not sure that makes me lucky it was the outcome I was looking for. I have now, as mentioned, fitted stiffer springs front and rear.
My view is that the OP should give it a try and see if they like it, different driving styles will also have an impact on how the car reacts with a more pliable rear end.
I definitely agree the OP should try it and see how he gets on with it.
Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff