350i Mis-fire.

[mrzigazaga]

Hi Peeps...Just thought id let you know that the intermittent mis-fire that i had was down to a dead temperature sensor...After unplugging it and testing it showed that there was no resistance and after it had warmed up it ran lovely with it unplugged.

This makes sense now why the plugs were so sooted up..However i do now have another dilemma..I cannot get a socket on there to remove it to replace it.....Even with a long reach 19mm its a mare...What to do???...Do i really need to remove the plenum and associated pipework?...

Actually I've been told to remove the thermotime switch first...Doh....

Makes more sense...
Cheers...Ziga

Edited by mrzigazaga on Tuesday 7th April 16:44

[ElvisWedgely]

That does make sense. I've never come across that before. Where is the temp sensor and why can't you get a socket on it? Is is a restricted area?

Tony. TCB.

[superwedge]

no zig ,just the pipe work,and use 3/8 set as its thiner, v8 zig

[mrzigazaga]

superwedge said:

no zig ,just the pipe work,and use 3/8 set as its thiner, v8 zig

I can't see what that is mate.....But it looks like it belongs to me...

Well i removed the distributor cap and then removed the thermotime..(24mm) and then the themperature sender was easy to get to...Not too tight..19mm open end spanner.

I replaced the thermotime with a layer of PTFE and a small dollop of PTFE teflon liquid on the bottom part of the thread and the same with the sender, Although the sender had a new washer.

Done in 10 mins...Simples...Will give her a test drive tomorrow....

@: Tony...Hi mate ..There are two one nearest the AFM is the thermotime and the inner one is the temperature sender so very awkward to get at as its just on the outer edge of the plenum and right next to the pipe that warms the plenum jacket..Albeit capped a bit further along...

@: Bobby...Hi...I didn't want to fart about so like for like is they way i like it...

Cheers....Ziga

Edited by mrzigazaga on Tuesday 7th April 21:53

[Campbell]

That sensor is a pig to get out, i took mine out a few weeks ago and i had to take off the water pipe behind it and played with a spanner to get it out but a socket will not fit over the connection.
The resistor value is correct and it is handy to have one taped to the wire for that just in case.

Ziga do you have a copy of manual for the power lock diff or know where to get it from.

Cheers

[ElvisWedgely]

mrzigazaga said:

@: Tony...Hi mate ..There are two one nearest the AFM is the thermotime and the inner one is the temperature sender so very awkward to get at as its just on the outer edge of the plenum and right next to the pipe that warms the plenum jacket..Albeit capped a bit further along...

Edited by mrzigazaga on Tuesday 7th April 21:53

Thanks for the info Mark. I'll have to check that out on my car for future reference when my car gets back from the body shop hopefully end of next week now. I just like to be clued up about these little details of thermos and senders and where they are. You never know when I might need to fettle mine. I hope the test run goes well tomorrow.

Tony. TCB.

[mrzigazaga]

Campbell said:

Ziga do you have a copy of manual for the power lock diff or know where to get it from.

Hi Mate...I only have exploded diagrams if they are of any use?...Jag would probably be the best bet...Ill see if i can find anything...

[Grady]

mrzigazaga said:

I replaced the thermotime with a layer of PTFE and a small dollop of PTFE teflon liquid on the bottom part of the thread and the same with the sender,

Edited by mrzigazaga on Tuesday 7th April 21:53

PTFE - Teflon tape and liquid? I think that will interfere with the ground connection between the sensor and the block. Although the mating the threads probably cut the tape enough to make a temporary ground. Grady

[Campbell]

Bobbie and Ziga can you both email [e-mail] what you have please as i have a diff to play eith thanks plus im sure the pdf can be uploaded for all to share.

Cheers

Cambelt

[mrzigazaga]

Bobby Shaftoe said:

Is there anyway to post a PDF file on here?

I've got a copy of the Dana/Spicer model 60 & 70 Powr-lok diff manual, which from what i've read is either a)exactly the same as our diffs, or b)sort of copy/similar diff with some interchangeable parts?!?

Hi mate..It does depend on how big the files are..I just tried with a zipped up file but the entry was too big so i guess it would have to be via a personal email...

Grady said:

PTFE - Teflon tape and liquid? I think that will interfere with the ground connection between the sensor and the block. Although the mating the threads probably cut the tape enough to make a temporary ground. Grady

Hi Grady..I only used one wrap round of the tape and TBH i had to remove them again as the temperature sender needed starting off in a different position so that the connector plug was in the right position or the connector won't fit on, The thread was exposed so there should be no earth issues....

Campbell said:

Bobbie and Ziga can you both email [e-mail] what you have please as i have a diff to play eith thanks plus im sure the pdf can be uploaded for all to share.

Cheers

Cambelt

Hi Campbell..Just sent you the Wedge parts manual in a compressed file...Im surprised you don't have it already?...Hope it helps..

Cheers...Ziga

[Campbell]

Cheers Mr Ziga, got your rather large email, no wonder it would open on the phone thanks for the pdf it will be much help.
Maybe Bobbie could email what he has to a few of us and we could try to upload it some how.

Cambelt

[Convert]

Zig, I took a grinder to a spare 19mm spanner, to make a slim fit one.

Came out great, no need to take thermotime sensor out.

Only problem was the thread on the one from Zimmers wouldn't tighten.Had to get one from RPi

[mrzigazaga]

No probs mate...Just glad to of helped...Just to say that the temperature sensor seems to be the wrong one so hopefully i will get the right one and then post up a part number on the Wedge parts list......Cheers...Ziga

[adam quantrill]

Campbell said:

The resistor value is correct and it is handy to have one taped to the wire for that just in case.

That's a great idea! if you fold over the leads and a dab of solder on each one then it will stay put when inserted into the plug.

I also have experienced hassle getting the sender out but an open-ended spanner to crack the seal then do it by hand, usually works. Which is why I don't put any PTFE or sealant on, as it's a pig to get out next time.

[mrzigazaga]

This maybe so but TBH it took me all of 10 mins so i wouldn't want any resistors in there...I did know of a 450SE that had a resistor but that was causing issues so the guy just replaced the temperature sender in the same way as he told me too.."Jobs a good'un" as they say...Although i bought the wrong part but at least i have a definitive answer to what is sometimes a very mind boggling feat ...Understanding WTF is going on inside the ECU and working of the EFI system...One main thing that Delilah taught me was to pinpoint the problems and find a replacement as near to or better than the original, Especially in my case as i rely on the old girl daily...I have come a long way but still have far to go..I have learnt from the best of you and will always try to help those...If we want these cars to survive ANOTHER 25 + years then we need to maintain them as best we can afford..Yes i love my bling bling but its no good if its "All show and no go".......Actually thats a quote from our old mate Mr Blank as regards to Delilah...I though it was well funny..At least i redeemed myself the following BBWF even if it was the cause of my failed supercharging experiment..... ..."Im sorry Dee...I still love you...Where are you...

[superwedge]

don't worry zig,she hunts with the king,

[mrzigazaga]

Thanks mate...She is always there in spirit ...Just hope whoever has her is keeping all that bling in good fettle..And she must be due a retrim by now so if you are watching..Ill do it ..I know every curve of that body...

[adam quantrill]

mrzigazaga said:

This maybe so but TBH it took me all of 10 mins so i wouldn't want any resistors in there...I did know of a 450SE that had a resistor but that was causing issues so the guy just replaced the temperature sender in the same way as he told me too..

Well the idea of the resistor taped onto the lead is that it's there for an emergency substitution. You don't leave it in circuit... do bear in mind that even the brand new CTS has a 10% chance of permature failure (proabably 25% if made by Intermotor or Lucas - who are now rebadging the Intermotor ones). So the resistor is there to get you home if you need it. Unplug the plug and stuff in the resistor.

mrzigazaga said:

Grady said:

PTFE - Teflon tape and liquid? I think that will interfere with the ground connection between the sensor and the block. Although the mating the threads probably cut the tape enough to make a temporary ground. Grady

Hi Grady..I only used one wrap round of the tape and TBH i had to remove them again as the temperature sender needed starting off in a different position so that the connector plug was in the right position or the connector won't fit on, The thread was exposed so there should be no earth issues....

Hi all, the tape will give no ill effects because the return path to the ECU is via the second plug wire. The CTS resistor is not earthed to the block via its body.

[V8 Fettler]

adam quantrill said:

mrzigazaga said:

This maybe so but TBH it took me all of 10 mins so i wouldn't want any resistors in there...I did know of a 450SE that had a resistor but that was causing issues so the guy just replaced the temperature sender in the same way as he told me too..

Well the idea of the resistor taped onto the lead is that it's there for an emergency substitution. You don't leave it in circuit... do bear in mind that even the brand new CTS has a 10% chance of permature failure (proabably 25% if made by Intermotor or Lucas - who are now rebadging the Intermotor ones). So the resistor is there to get you home if you need it. Unplug the plug and stuff in the resistor.

mrzigazaga said:

Grady said:

PTFE - Teflon tape and liquid? I think that will interfere with the ground connection between the sensor and the block. Although the mating the threads probably cut the tape enough to make a temporary ground. Grady

Hi Grady..I only used one wrap round of the tape and TBH i had to remove them again as the temperature sender needed starting off in a different position so that the connector plug was in the right position or the connector won't fit on, The thread was exposed so there should be no earth issues....

Hi all, the tape will give no ill effects because the return path to the ECU is via the second plug wire. The CTS resistor is not earthed to the block via its body.

Depressing failure rate. Perhaps a permanent install with a known quality product and a shunt at the ECU controlled by a toggle switch in the cabin?

[mrzigazaga]

I guess you could have something in place as a back up but then you are just complicating something simple...I prefer to buy as close to the real part and replace like for like..Like i say when i looked at it i thought bloody nora thats a right pig of a job...Literally 10 mins..Dizzy cap off...Thermotime out..T/Sender out..New one in..Thermo back in..Plug on..Okay i did buy the wrong one as i never realised until now that certain parts are for lower KW engines..Carb..Diesel..efi...So although it was for a discovery 1 3.5 V8 it was not specified for the EFI so i will just have to spend another £10 and another 10 minutes replacing it again...Hey ho...And off you go...Well a £1 a minute isn't bad cost ..Although if it were wages it would be insulting...