Transgender children?
Discussion
This is quite a controversial one but the article in BBC News really shocked me explaining (or attempting to), the story of two "transgender children".
While I accept that as we get older, people may feel they are not who they believe they are, this is insanity. How can a children ages 6 and 8 be diagnosed as transgender? It sounds like something parents push their children into and if they have it wrong, just imagine the psychological disorders they will have to deal with as they become adults.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32037397
Many young children cross-dress purely out of fun and playing dress-up, boys play with dolls and jewellery (I used to play with my big sisters barbie dolls at the age of 3-4). I even once put on my mums lipstick around that age which my mum thought was hilarious. This is pure innocence on the part of the child and total stupidity on the part of any parent who thinks it means their child is transgender as a result....many of my nephews girl friends (5-7 years old), regularly play lego, race cars on his scalectrix, and dinosaurs with him so does this mean they are transgender and should be labelled as boys??
This is one f
ked up society if we think this way.
I'm dreading having children now. My fiancee and I plan to have them soon after we get married so in todays ways, if my child plays with a doll, paints their nails or puts on a dress, does it mean I have to decide my boy is a girl or vice-versa?!!?
No doubt some stupid school teacher or other busy-body will in time interfere and refer a child to social services because a family may not believe these views.
While I accept that as we get older, people may feel they are not who they believe they are, this is insanity. How can a children ages 6 and 8 be diagnosed as transgender? It sounds like something parents push their children into and if they have it wrong, just imagine the psychological disorders they will have to deal with as they become adults.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32037397
Many young children cross-dress purely out of fun and playing dress-up, boys play with dolls and jewellery (I used to play with my big sisters barbie dolls at the age of 3-4). I even once put on my mums lipstick around that age which my mum thought was hilarious. This is pure innocence on the part of the child and total stupidity on the part of any parent who thinks it means their child is transgender as a result....many of my nephews girl friends (5-7 years old), regularly play lego, race cars on his scalectrix, and dinosaurs with him so does this mean they are transgender and should be labelled as boys??
This is one f
ked up society if we think this way.I'm dreading having children now. My fiancee and I plan to have them soon after we get married so in todays ways, if my child plays with a doll, paints their nails or puts on a dress, does it mean I have to decide my boy is a girl or vice-versa?!!?
No doubt some stupid school teacher or other busy-body will in time interfere and refer a child to social services because a family may not believe these views.
I'd imagine these kids are little more than just putting lippy on down the road towards thinking they are born into the wrong body. As such, I'd much rather they were supported, even if it turns out they are only Eddie Izzard rather than being so unhappy they top themselves to make you feel better.
I'll see if I can download it, but it feels as though it's the parents jumping the gun and pushing them into this direction.
Kids are easily influenced by anything and can be moulded into almost anything the parent wants.
I genuinely have no issue with whatever gender or sex anyone would like to be or be attracted to. It's part of who you are and one of the most important freedoms of expression that we have in society; But I find it nigh-on impossible to believe a child as young as this can make their mind up about their gender.
As I said before, I used to dress-up, plant my mums lipstick on and play with my big sisters barbie dolls when I was 3-4 years old, however I'm not transgender and I'm not gay or any other stereotypical attribute you might want to apply to that. I was just innocent back then and simply didn't care.
My masculinity was definitely defined by my dad buying me cars, lego, technic, playing games lads do and over time I followed that path as most boys do.
I'm pretty sure if both my parents bought me dresses and let me wear make-up and told me it was normal and that it was ok to be like a girl (or even be one), I would have grown up with a "transgender" disorder.
I feel as though all of this is down to the parents.
Kids are easily influenced by anything and can be moulded into almost anything the parent wants.
I genuinely have no issue with whatever gender or sex anyone would like to be or be attracted to. It's part of who you are and one of the most important freedoms of expression that we have in society; But I find it nigh-on impossible to believe a child as young as this can make their mind up about their gender.
As I said before, I used to dress-up, plant my mums lipstick on and play with my big sisters barbie dolls when I was 3-4 years old, however I'm not transgender and I'm not gay or any other stereotypical attribute you might want to apply to that. I was just innocent back then and simply didn't care.
My masculinity was definitely defined by my dad buying me cars, lego, technic, playing games lads do and over time I followed that path as most boys do.
I'm pretty sure if both my parents bought me dresses and let me wear make-up and told me it was normal and that it was ok to be like a girl (or even be one), I would have grown up with a "transgender" disorder.
I feel as though all of this is down to the parents.
I've not seen the Louis Theroux programme, but I can't imagine these decisions are taken lightly by the medical profession. I'd hope there are all sorts of checks and balances to ensure that these kids are receiving the best care possible. Am I right in thinking that adults have to go through psychological assessments before being considered for gender reassignment?
The theory behind the way it's done in the states is that it's better for them to be helped before they hit puberty (and have to have it reversed) and have the "issues" addressed before they become "grown up" and have more psychological problems as a result of bullying etc. etc.
eta: the programme really does put a different angle on it all so do try and watch it
eta: the programme really does put a different angle on it all so do try and watch it
Ari said:
eybic said:
I agree with this 100%, I was sceptical but those kids definitely knew what they were "supposed to be"
Can any kid really know what he or she is 'supposed to be'?People change an awful lot as they grow up.
I will watch this documentary but I feel a lot of this is down to our over acceptance of anything in this day and age and this trend of "forward thinking parents".
I would accept that at 16, a child can feel this way but 6-8 year olds have absolutely no idea of anything. More worryingly, I read another article stating children as young as 3 can be diagnosed with transgender disorders.
I don't care if respect is needed or not, but whoever believes this is high on crack.
i posted this on the Louis Teroux thread but i think it would be of benefit in here, although its a x-post so may be a little disjointed to the current discussion.
You have to consider what harm is it doing.
In order to appreciate that you need to know the WPATH guidelines (the set of rules all doctors world wide are expected to adhere to when treating trans people) They do not allow surgical or hormonal intervention until much later in life. Puberty blockers can be started when a child reaches tanner stage 2 of puberty, cross gender hormones can be introduced at 16 and surgery at 18.
By the time a child has identified as trans through childhood, early puberty and the early teens when all their peers develop and they get a real taste of life in their chosen gender, if they get to that point at 16 still thinking its the right thing then it probably is. If at any stage they change their mind everything is reversible until some time into cross hormone therapy, coming off the puberty blockers just lets the birth sex puberty re start. Before the blockers its just a social transition.
The other option of denying letting the child express themselves is an unhappy child and then we get into the statistics of self harm, suicide etc which i have already mentioned.
So on balance it is better to let a happy little boy mistakenly be a girl for a while and provide lots of embarrassing photos for the wedding speeches until they realize their error, and apparently a lot do realize. Than it is to fight that same child and force them into a role, or worse still fight a genuinely trans child to self harm and suicide.
You have to consider what harm is it doing.
In order to appreciate that you need to know the WPATH guidelines (the set of rules all doctors world wide are expected to adhere to when treating trans people) They do not allow surgical or hormonal intervention until much later in life. Puberty blockers can be started when a child reaches tanner stage 2 of puberty, cross gender hormones can be introduced at 16 and surgery at 18.
By the time a child has identified as trans through childhood, early puberty and the early teens when all their peers develop and they get a real taste of life in their chosen gender, if they get to that point at 16 still thinking its the right thing then it probably is. If at any stage they change their mind everything is reversible until some time into cross hormone therapy, coming off the puberty blockers just lets the birth sex puberty re start. Before the blockers its just a social transition.
The other option of denying letting the child express themselves is an unhappy child and then we get into the statistics of self harm, suicide etc which i have already mentioned.
So on balance it is better to let a happy little boy mistakenly be a girl for a while and provide lots of embarrassing photos for the wedding speeches until they realize their error, and apparently a lot do realize. Than it is to fight that same child and force them into a role, or worse still fight a genuinely trans child to self harm and suicide.
p2c said:
i posted this on the Louis Teroux thread but i think it would be of benefit in here, although its a x-post so may be a little disjointed to the current discussion.
You have to consider what harm is it doing.
In order to appreciate that you need to know the WPATH guidelines (the set of rules all doctors world wide are expected to adhere to when treating trans people) They do not allow surgical or hormonal intervention until much later in life. Puberty blockers can be started when a child reaches tanner stage 2 of puberty, cross gender hormones can be introduced at 16 and surgery at 18.
By the time a child has identified as trans through childhood, early puberty and the early teens when all their peers develop and they get a real taste of life in their chosen gender, if they get to that point at 16 still thinking its the right thing then it probably is. If at any stage they change their mind everything is reversible until some time into cross hormone therapy, coming off the puberty blockers just lets the birth sex puberty re start. Before the blockers its just a social transition.
The other option of denying letting the child express themselves is an unhappy child and then we get into the statistics of self harm, suicide etc which i have already mentioned.
So on balance it is better to let a happy little boy mistakenly be a girl for a while and provide lots of embarrassing photos for the wedding speeches until they realize their error, and apparently a lot do realize. Than it is to fight that same child and force them into a role, or worse still fight a genuinely trans child to self harm and suicide.
Or just let them be children and play with what they want and dress how they want, within limits set by their parents.You have to consider what harm is it doing.
In order to appreciate that you need to know the WPATH guidelines (the set of rules all doctors world wide are expected to adhere to when treating trans people) They do not allow surgical or hormonal intervention until much later in life. Puberty blockers can be started when a child reaches tanner stage 2 of puberty, cross gender hormones can be introduced at 16 and surgery at 18.
By the time a child has identified as trans through childhood, early puberty and the early teens when all their peers develop and they get a real taste of life in their chosen gender, if they get to that point at 16 still thinking its the right thing then it probably is. If at any stage they change their mind everything is reversible until some time into cross hormone therapy, coming off the puberty blockers just lets the birth sex puberty re start. Before the blockers its just a social transition.
The other option of denying letting the child express themselves is an unhappy child and then we get into the statistics of self harm, suicide etc which i have already mentioned.
So on balance it is better to let a happy little boy mistakenly be a girl for a while and provide lots of embarrassing photos for the wedding speeches until they realize their error, and apparently a lot do realize. Than it is to fight that same child and force them into a role, or worse still fight a genuinely trans child to self harm and suicide.
Corpulent Tosser said:
p2c said:
i posted this on the Louis Teroux thread but i think it would be of benefit in here, although its a x-post so may be a little disjointed to the current discussion.
You have to consider what harm is it doing.
In order to appreciate that you need to know the WPATH guidelines (the set of rules all doctors world wide are expected to adhere to when treating trans people) They do not allow surgical or hormonal intervention until much later in life. Puberty blockers can be started when a child reaches tanner stage 2 of puberty, cross gender hormones can be introduced at 16 and surgery at 18.
By the time a child has identified as trans through childhood, early puberty and the early teens when all their peers develop and they get a real taste of life in their chosen gender, if they get to that point at 16 still thinking its the right thing then it probably is. If at any stage they change their mind everything is reversible until some time into cross hormone therapy, coming off the puberty blockers just lets the birth sex puberty re start. Before the blockers its just a social transition.
The other option of denying letting the child express themselves is an unhappy child and then we get into the statistics of self harm, suicide etc which i have already mentioned.
So on balance it is better to let a happy little boy mistakenly be a girl for a while and provide lots of embarrassing photos for the wedding speeches until they realize their error, and apparently a lot do realize. Than it is to fight that same child and force them into a role, or worse still fight a genuinely trans child to self harm and suicide.
Or just let them be children and play with what they want and dress how they want, within limits set by their parents.You have to consider what harm is it doing.
In order to appreciate that you need to know the WPATH guidelines (the set of rules all doctors world wide are expected to adhere to when treating trans people) They do not allow surgical or hormonal intervention until much later in life. Puberty blockers can be started when a child reaches tanner stage 2 of puberty, cross gender hormones can be introduced at 16 and surgery at 18.
By the time a child has identified as trans through childhood, early puberty and the early teens when all their peers develop and they get a real taste of life in their chosen gender, if they get to that point at 16 still thinking its the right thing then it probably is. If at any stage they change their mind everything is reversible until some time into cross hormone therapy, coming off the puberty blockers just lets the birth sex puberty re start. Before the blockers its just a social transition.
The other option of denying letting the child express themselves is an unhappy child and then we get into the statistics of self harm, suicide etc which i have already mentioned.
So on balance it is better to let a happy little boy mistakenly be a girl for a while and provide lots of embarrassing photos for the wedding speeches until they realize their error, and apparently a lot do realize. Than it is to fight that same child and force them into a role, or worse still fight a genuinely trans child to self harm and suicide.
p2c said:
Corpulent Tosser said:
p2c said:
i posted this on the Louis Teroux thread but i think it would be of benefit in here, although its a x-post so may be a little disjointed to the current discussion.
You have to consider what harm is it doing.
In order to appreciate that you need to know the WPATH guidelines (the set of rules all doctors world wide are expected to adhere to when treating trans people) They do not allow surgical or hormonal intervention until much later in life. Puberty blockers can be started when a child reaches tanner stage 2 of puberty, cross gender hormones can be introduced at 16 and surgery at 18.
By the time a child has identified as trans through childhood, early puberty and the early teens when all their peers develop and they get a real taste of life in their chosen gender, if they get to that point at 16 still thinking its the right thing then it probably is. If at any stage they change their mind everything is reversible until some time into cross hormone therapy, coming off the puberty blockers just lets the birth sex puberty re start. Before the blockers its just a social transition.
The other option of denying letting the child express themselves is an unhappy child and then we get into the statistics of self harm, suicide etc which i have already mentioned.
So on balance it is better to let a happy little boy mistakenly be a girl for a while and provide lots of embarrassing photos for the wedding speeches until they realize their error, and apparently a lot do realize. Than it is to fight that same child and force them into a role, or worse still fight a genuinely trans child to self harm and suicide.
Or just let them be children and play with what they want and dress how they want, within limits set by their parents.You have to consider what harm is it doing.
In order to appreciate that you need to know the WPATH guidelines (the set of rules all doctors world wide are expected to adhere to when treating trans people) They do not allow surgical or hormonal intervention until much later in life. Puberty blockers can be started when a child reaches tanner stage 2 of puberty, cross gender hormones can be introduced at 16 and surgery at 18.
By the time a child has identified as trans through childhood, early puberty and the early teens when all their peers develop and they get a real taste of life in their chosen gender, if they get to that point at 16 still thinking its the right thing then it probably is. If at any stage they change their mind everything is reversible until some time into cross hormone therapy, coming off the puberty blockers just lets the birth sex puberty re start. Before the blockers its just a social transition.
The other option of denying letting the child express themselves is an unhappy child and then we get into the statistics of self harm, suicide etc which i have already mentioned.
So on balance it is better to let a happy little boy mistakenly be a girl for a while and provide lots of embarrassing photos for the wedding speeches until they realize their error, and apparently a lot do realize. Than it is to fight that same child and force them into a role, or worse still fight a genuinely trans child to self harm and suicide.
Corpulent Tosser said:
p2c said:
Corpulent Tosser said:
p2c said:
i posted this on the Louis Teroux thread but i think it would be of benefit in here, although its a x-post so may be a little disjointed to the current discussion.
You have to consider what harm is it doing.
In order to appreciate that you need to know the WPATH guidelines (the set of rules all doctors world wide are expected to adhere to when treating trans people) They do not allow surgical or hormonal intervention until much later in life. Puberty blockers can be started when a child reaches tanner stage 2 of puberty, cross gender hormones can be introduced at 16 and surgery at 18.
By the time a child has identified as trans through childhood, early puberty and the early teens when all their peers develop and they get a real taste of life in their chosen gender, if they get to that point at 16 still thinking its the right thing then it probably is. If at any stage they change their mind everything is reversible until some time into cross hormone therapy, coming off the puberty blockers just lets the birth sex puberty re start. Before the blockers its just a social transition.
The other option of denying letting the child express themselves is an unhappy child and then we get into the statistics of self harm, suicide etc which i have already mentioned.
So on balance it is better to let a happy little boy mistakenly be a girl for a while and provide lots of embarrassing photos for the wedding speeches until they realize their error, and apparently a lot do realize. Than it is to fight that same child and force them into a role, or worse still fight a genuinely trans child to self harm and suicide.
Or just let them be children and play with what they want and dress how they want, within limits set by their parents.You have to consider what harm is it doing.
In order to appreciate that you need to know the WPATH guidelines (the set of rules all doctors world wide are expected to adhere to when treating trans people) They do not allow surgical or hormonal intervention until much later in life. Puberty blockers can be started when a child reaches tanner stage 2 of puberty, cross gender hormones can be introduced at 16 and surgery at 18.
By the time a child has identified as trans through childhood, early puberty and the early teens when all their peers develop and they get a real taste of life in their chosen gender, if they get to that point at 16 still thinking its the right thing then it probably is. If at any stage they change their mind everything is reversible until some time into cross hormone therapy, coming off the puberty blockers just lets the birth sex puberty re start. Before the blockers its just a social transition.
The other option of denying letting the child express themselves is an unhappy child and then we get into the statistics of self harm, suicide etc which i have already mentioned.
So on balance it is better to let a happy little boy mistakenly be a girl for a while and provide lots of embarrassing photos for the wedding speeches until they realize their error, and apparently a lot do realize. Than it is to fight that same child and force them into a role, or worse still fight a genuinely trans child to self harm and suicide.
If your child starts putting on girls clothes, don't rush them to the nearest specialist and expect his nuts to be chopped off FFS.
IvanSTi said:
Corpulent Tosser said:
p2c said:
Corpulent Tosser said:
p2c said:
i posted this on the Louis Teroux thread but i think it would be of benefit in here, although its a x-post so may be a little disjointed to the current discussion.
You have to consider what harm is it doing.
In order to appreciate that you need to know the WPATH guidelines (the set of rules all doctors world wide are expected to adhere to when treating trans people) They do not allow surgical or hormonal intervention until much later in life. Puberty blockers can be started when a child reaches tanner stage 2 of puberty, cross gender hormones can be introduced at 16 and surgery at 18.
By the time a child has identified as trans through childhood, early puberty and the early teens when all their peers develop and they get a real taste of life in their chosen gender, if they get to that point at 16 still thinking its the right thing then it probably is. If at any stage they change their mind everything is reversible until some time into cross hormone therapy, coming off the puberty blockers just lets the birth sex puberty re start. Before the blockers its just a social transition.
The other option of denying letting the child express themselves is an unhappy child and then we get into the statistics of self harm, suicide etc which i have already mentioned.
So on balance it is better to let a happy little boy mistakenly be a girl for a while and provide lots of embarrassing photos for the wedding speeches until they realize their error, and apparently a lot do realize. Than it is to fight that same child and force them into a role, or worse still fight a genuinely trans child to self harm and suicide.
Or just let them be children and play with what they want and dress how they want, within limits set by their parents.You have to consider what harm is it doing.
In order to appreciate that you need to know the WPATH guidelines (the set of rules all doctors world wide are expected to adhere to when treating trans people) They do not allow surgical or hormonal intervention until much later in life. Puberty blockers can be started when a child reaches tanner stage 2 of puberty, cross gender hormones can be introduced at 16 and surgery at 18.
By the time a child has identified as trans through childhood, early puberty and the early teens when all their peers develop and they get a real taste of life in their chosen gender, if they get to that point at 16 still thinking its the right thing then it probably is. If at any stage they change their mind everything is reversible until some time into cross hormone therapy, coming off the puberty blockers just lets the birth sex puberty re start. Before the blockers its just a social transition.
The other option of denying letting the child express themselves is an unhappy child and then we get into the statistics of self harm, suicide etc which i have already mentioned.
So on balance it is better to let a happy little boy mistakenly be a girl for a while and provide lots of embarrassing photos for the wedding speeches until they realize their error, and apparently a lot do realize. Than it is to fight that same child and force them into a role, or worse still fight a genuinely trans child to self harm and suicide.
If your child starts putting on girls clothes, don't rush them to the nearest specialist and expect his nuts to be chopped off FFS.
I posted the guidelines to show that if a 5yo is taken to specialists they don't "chop their nuts off" they just provide support.
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