Bit of a whinge, Sram and Avid
Discussion
I've just got back into mountain biking after a few years off; I bought a new NS hardtail a few months ago with Sram and Avid components. I was fully prepared to become a Sram fan boy but having ridden the bike extensively now my overriding impression is that it is a second rate.
It came with X5 shifters: - immediately noticed that the lever was sloppy, the ergonomics poor with respect to lever throw and the downshifts awful and spongy(the only positive is the crisp upshifts).
I upgraded (or so I thought) to X9 shifters: immediately noticed all of the above again and amazingly the downshifts are even worse, the lever is spongy, vague, just horrible really.
PG1030 cassette: nice and shiny but having tuned the shifters and derailleur within an inch of it's life to run on it smoothly, precisely and crisply, it simply will not do it. The cassette just does not perform well on downshifts, the chain lags and the action is coarse. My 10 year old inbred with very used XT cassette and XT shifters beats the shifting in every respect; no sloppiness and fast, precise and smooth shifts up and down the cassette, the difference is night and day and I can only assume that it is down to the superior Shimano cassette.
Avid Elixir 5 Brakes: they work for about 5 minutes before the pads need realigning. Use them for a bit longer and they groan, grind, squeal and rub intermittently and to top it all they do not feel earth shatteringly powerful. I don't mind that so much as they are more than adequate but I kid you not, my Deore V Brakes on my other bike feel better; properly powerful, smooth, quiet and very progressive. The Avid brakes given the increased weight and complexity are simply not worth the bother.
I will be moving to Shimano brakes soon, and will treat it to some Saint shifters I have lying around and new XT cassette and Shadow + rear mech and KMC chain.
Disappointing really given that Sram stuff is supposed to be fast, precise and crisp.
It came with X5 shifters: - immediately noticed that the lever was sloppy, the ergonomics poor with respect to lever throw and the downshifts awful and spongy(the only positive is the crisp upshifts).
I upgraded (or so I thought) to X9 shifters: immediately noticed all of the above again and amazingly the downshifts are even worse, the lever is spongy, vague, just horrible really.
PG1030 cassette: nice and shiny but having tuned the shifters and derailleur within an inch of it's life to run on it smoothly, precisely and crisply, it simply will not do it. The cassette just does not perform well on downshifts, the chain lags and the action is coarse. My 10 year old inbred with very used XT cassette and XT shifters beats the shifting in every respect; no sloppiness and fast, precise and smooth shifts up and down the cassette, the difference is night and day and I can only assume that it is down to the superior Shimano cassette.
Avid Elixir 5 Brakes: they work for about 5 minutes before the pads need realigning. Use them for a bit longer and they groan, grind, squeal and rub intermittently and to top it all they do not feel earth shatteringly powerful. I don't mind that so much as they are more than adequate but I kid you not, my Deore V Brakes on my other bike feel better; properly powerful, smooth, quiet and very progressive. The Avid brakes given the increased weight and complexity are simply not worth the bother.
I will be moving to Shimano brakes soon, and will treat it to some Saint shifters I have lying around and new XT cassette and Shadow + rear mech and KMC chain.
Disappointing really given that Sram stuff is supposed to be fast, precise and crisp.
Funnily enough I am having the same problems with my Avid Elixers, I was giving my bike a quick once over before and noticed seeping from the seals. Not happy as I was supposed to go out on it tonight and have another ride planned for Saturday. I'm looking at getting a set of Shimano SLX's for it, I've never been happy with the Avids - like you say they work for about 5 minutes till they need adjusting again.
I'm running SRAM X7 on my bike and it seems pretty crisp and trouble free. I've probably just cursed myself now though.
I'm running SRAM X7 on my bike and it seems pretty crisp and trouble free. I've probably just cursed myself now though.
Edited by SheikhYerBouti on Wednesday 8th April 15:11
I think I must have been lucky with mine. Love the gear shifting with the X0 setup my bike came with. Same with the X0 brakes. Maybe not the most powerful but very progressive and not been touched in 3 years short of pad changes.
I do though always stick XT cassettes on as they are just so much cheaper and KMC chains are another automatic choice just because of the missing link split chains. Make life so much easier.
I do though always stick XT cassettes on as they are just so much cheaper and KMC chains are another automatic choice just because of the missing link split chains. Make life so much easier.
I've been tinkering with bikes for nigh on 20 years and I just cannot get the Sram drivetrain to shift super cleanly (or as cleanly as I'd like). As I said, I think it's a combination of cassette, X9 shifter and X7 derailleur. The cassette in particular seems to be below par for me - I've spent a while examining the shifts (especially downshifts) and it just doesn't perform as well as the 10 speed Shimano cassettes IMO. I read somewhere that Sram messed up the feel of their 10 speed stuff below X0 and that their 9 speed stuff was much better. I don't know but having set up Shimano stuff on and off for years and having had a fair amount of time with their Shadow Plus era components, the Shimano stuff feels more solid and precise.
I was tempted to go down the gripshift X0/XX route (it's supposed to be great) but I don't want to spend that much money and be disappointed. And anyway, Saint shifters are ace and XT feels tough and precise and comes in cheaper.
I was tempted to go down the gripshift X0/XX route (it's supposed to be great) but I don't want to spend that much money and be disappointed. And anyway, Saint shifters are ace and XT feels tough and precise and comes in cheaper.
Running the same Sram and Elixir components on my Cannondale and must admit I was really disappointed from new. I replaced the gear cable and outer with better quality and the gears are now spot on. I changed the rear cassette from a 1030 to an XT, just for the weight saving, not for shifting reasons, as they worked the same. They are just a lump of steel with teeth. I have Sram better versions on Shimano equipped bikes that shift perfectly and the only difference is the alloy weight saving etc. Sprocket shapes and teeth are the same.
Now, onto Elixirs. Mine were totally s
te. The standard Avid pads howled when wet, didn't give any confidence whatsoever. So I bought some sintered pads, being it was January when I got the bike. They sounded like I was running a washing machine full of nails when I pulled the lever. Brakes were a bit better, but the munching of the HS1 discs, meant they had to come out. Then onto Uberbike Matrix pads. I do like Uberbike parts, but these pads were dire. Totally wooden feel and no friction to slow you down at all. So they came out and I fitted Bikefridge semi sintered organics. These have been fantastic. Grip and bite, no squeal and have stopped me from taking the brakes off and fitting SLX. Try those pads and see if helps with the Elixirs poor performance. I do have many bikes running the latest Shimano brakes, so know how good they are, but for the price of a couple of sets of pads, should help to get them working as they should.
Now, onto Elixirs. Mine were totally s
te. The standard Avid pads howled when wet, didn't give any confidence whatsoever. So I bought some sintered pads, being it was January when I got the bike. They sounded like I was running a washing machine full of nails when I pulled the lever. Brakes were a bit better, but the munching of the HS1 discs, meant they had to come out. Then onto Uberbike Matrix pads. I do like Uberbike parts, but these pads were dire. Totally wooden feel and no friction to slow you down at all. So they came out and I fitted Bikefridge semi sintered organics. These have been fantastic. Grip and bite, no squeal and have stopped me from taking the brakes off and fitting SLX. Try those pads and see if helps with the Elixirs poor performance. I do have many bikes running the latest Shimano brakes, so know how good they are, but for the price of a couple of sets of pads, should help to get them working as they should.gazza285 said:
I've ditched all my Sram and Avid stuff, although I do use Sram chains on all my bikes, due to how cheap they are on eBay, and they seem to wear well.
Strange how different people seem to view things differently, isn't it? I've never had Avid brakes, but if there was a single groupset brand I'd not have again, it would definitely be Campagnolo. The SRAM on my Stumpy is admittedly brand new, but runs wonderfully, and the SRAM Force on my Boardman CX has been flawless for the best part of 3,000 miles, apart from the first rear mech exploding when I decided to lie the bike down at 20mph! 
I've never had a problem with Shimano either, except for some odd chain jumping going on at the moment with a new XT Shadowfire mech, new cassette & new chain. I've got a new middle chain ring to fit when I get round to it to see if that solves the problem.
My X01 is pretty damn good. Changes gear so happy with that.
Really liking the new sram guide brakes too. A lot of power and modulation and as such way prefer them to my latest gen XT's.
Two pairs of elixirs have died after a while but they were well used and they were notorious for their reliability but when they worked they did so real well. But so have shimano, Hayes, hopes etc. must have 10 or so dead brakes in the garage.
Never really thought much of their budget stuff. If you're on a budget stick to shimano.
Really liking the new sram guide brakes too. A lot of power and modulation and as such way prefer them to my latest gen XT's.
Two pairs of elixirs have died after a while but they were well used and they were notorious for their reliability but when they worked they did so real well. But so have shimano, Hayes, hopes etc. must have 10 or so dead brakes in the garage.
Never really thought much of their budget stuff. If you're on a budget stick to shimano.
I am so glad other people have the same problems! I've got a Trek Superfly 9.7
I've done some decent rides over the last few days up and down the hill of Scotland. I've got Sram X7 shifters, X9 rear mech and a HG62 cassette (might upgrade this to an XT soon).
Shifting up the cassette (i.e. to a lower gear) is ok on some gears but other times it skips two sprockets. Dropping down the block sometimes it will do just one change, other times it jumps two and it needs a small push on the lever to put it back into the right gear. The unexpected gear changes are interesting too. It's very annoying and it highlights how good the gear change is on my Shimano equipped road bike.
I've done some decent rides over the last few days up and down the hill of Scotland. I've got Sram X7 shifters, X9 rear mech and a HG62 cassette (might upgrade this to an XT soon).
Shifting up the cassette (i.e. to a lower gear) is ok on some gears but other times it skips two sprockets. Dropping down the block sometimes it will do just one change, other times it jumps two and it needs a small push on the lever to put it back into the right gear. The unexpected gear changes are interesting too. It's very annoying and it highlights how good the gear change is on my Shimano equipped road bike.
Edited by Sensibleboy on Wednesday 8th April 21:47
Shifting up the cassette (i.e. to a lower gear) is ok on some gears but other times it skips two sprockets. Dropping down the block sometimes it will do just one change, other times it jumps two and it needs a small push on the lever to put it back into the right gear. The unexpected gear changes are interesting too. It's very annoying and it highlights how good the gear change is on my Shimano equipped road bike.
99% of shifting issues are gear cable problems. Overshifting is created by sticking cables.
On another note, I am 90 miles of Sram and Avid mtb riding this week and hasn't missed a beat. I know that Avid hasn't a great following , but can't fault mine currently after the pads issue. Sram has changed as good as the Di2 on the road bike, if I am honest
99% of shifting issues are gear cable problems. Overshifting is created by sticking cables.
On another note, I am 90 miles of Sram and Avid mtb riding this week and hasn't missed a beat. I know that Avid hasn't a great following , but can't fault mine currently after the pads issue. Sram has changed as good as the Di2 on the road bike, if I am honest
Justin S said:
Shifting up the cassette (i.e. to a lower gear) is ok on some gears but other times it skips two sprockets. Dropping down the block sometimes it will do just one change, other times it jumps two and it needs a small push on the lever to put it back into the right gear. The unexpected gear changes are interesting too. It's very annoying and it highlights how good the gear change is on my Shimano equipped road bike.
99% of shifting issues are gear cable problems. Overshifting is created by sticking cables.
On another note, I am 90 miles of Sram and Avid mtb riding this week and hasn't missed a beat. I know that Avid hasn't a great following , but can't fault mine currently after the pads issue. Sram has changed as good as the Di2 on the road bike, if I am honest
Check your hanger is straight.99% of shifting issues are gear cable problems. Overshifting is created by sticking cables.
On another note, I am 90 miles of Sram and Avid mtb riding this week and hasn't missed a beat. I know that Avid hasn't a great following , but can't fault mine currently after the pads issue. Sram has changed as good as the Di2 on the road bike, if I am honest
I've been using SRAM and Avid for the past 8-9 years with no problems at all. My XTC currently uses the Juicy 9s that came with my 575 in 2006, and I've only ever had to replace the pads. It also uses X9 shifters of similar vintage, though the X9 rear mech is only a couple of years old. Usually mixed with XT cassette and SRAM 970/980 chain. Has been a completely tinker-free set up for me.
My other bike uses SRAM X9 shifters and rear mech for 2x10 set up, again completely trouble-free for the 3 years I've had it so far. Chain is SRAM 1090, cassette is XT.. That bike also has Elixirs, and these too have been flawless. I'm not a light rider, and neither do I take the easy line, so the brakes really do get a work out, and in three years all I've had to do is replace the pads. Currently using Avid sintered, with Shimano rotors front and back.
I've probably cursed the whole set up now, but have seriously never had a problem with any of that kit in that time.
My other bike uses SRAM X9 shifters and rear mech for 2x10 set up, again completely trouble-free for the 3 years I've had it so far. Chain is SRAM 1090, cassette is XT.. That bike also has Elixirs, and these too have been flawless. I'm not a light rider, and neither do I take the easy line, so the brakes really do get a work out, and in three years all I've had to do is replace the pads. Currently using Avid sintered, with Shimano rotors front and back.
I've probably cursed the whole set up now, but have seriously never had a problem with any of that kit in that time.
torres del paine said:
A pattern is emerging, you're all using an XT cassette. I think it might be superior based on my observations. I still think X9 shifters are distinctly average; the sloppy and vague lever is poor. I must be fussy, I like good mechanical feel.
I'm not. I'm using the same cassette you are, and have had no problem with it. Check your cables, I reckon.I've been using Avid Elixer (5) for few years now without issue. I originally had Shimano brakes on the bike but got fed up with having to bleed them monthly. Had SRAM X5 shifters paired with an X9 mech and always had issues though, the quality control on SRAM stuff is a bit hit and miss, bought a new cassette that had two 12T sprockets a while back which annoyed me as couldn't be used.
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