Daft question - 111R vs 111S

[WhirlingDERVish]

Thanks for bearing with me on this topic!

I might be losing my marbles or working it out wrong but doesn't a 111R made to the same spec as a standard 111S come in at about 5 grand dearer, minus the hardtop?

I was thinking about getting a 111R instead of a TVR T350 but in terms of money vs kit surely the 111S is the one to go for, unless I'm missing something? Is the 111R really so much better?

[X-Box]

I went through exactly the same thought process.

Got a crackin deal on a stock 111S - exactly the spec/colour I wanted, saved a packet compared to a similar 111R.

[mustard]

WhirlingDERVish said:

Thanks for bearing with me on this topic! I might be losing my marbles or working it out wrong but doesn't a 111R made to the same spec as a standard 111S come in at about 5 grand dearer, minus the hardtop? I was thinking about getting a 111R instead of a TVR T350 but in terms of money vs kit surely the 111S is the one to go for, unless I'm missing something? Is the 111R really so much better?

Value for money, yes the 111S is the best

£25995 retail IIRC inc Hardtop

as you point out 111R to the same spec is
£27995 for the car
£1995 for Touring PAck
£1250 for the hardtop
giving you just over £31200 IIRC

for your extra money you get cicra 40bhp, 6 speed gearbox and ABS Brakes, personally if you've been considering a T350 your going to find the 111S rather lacklustre.

The 111R at semi legal speeds with its combination of handling, agility and power to weight ratio will mumble most cars.

My advice would be to forego the Hardtop (adds little to the resale) and go for a 111R with just the Touring Pack which brings it down to £4k difference

[WhirlingDERVish]

I guess I just weigh things up in terms of money = spec.

If the 111R is only 0.2 of a second faster to 60 and yet it costs £5000 more, that to me is a lot of extra money as an overall percentage cost for not much extra ooomph.

Since ostensibly both cars 'look' the same unless you are able to spot details of minutiae, I think the S seems like the better deal.

X-Box Mmmm... Nice wheels... What colour scheme is that? Looks too bright for standard red

>> Edited by WhirlingDERVish on Wednesday 19th January 20:08

[mustard]

0-60 is only half the story, try the two and dont be afraid to exploit the revs well beyond 6000rpm

two cars are chalk n cheese

[malbon]

depends what your after. drive them both and see if you think its worth it. 5k is a lot of money but you have a high technology engine vs an old boot albeit one that makes an elise go very fast.

there is very little between all the elise derivatives on the whole of things in terms of overall speed.

I've always had 111 esses and they are not that much quicker than the std one on paper - its not what it does but how it does it that makes the difference for me.

Not driven a 111r - but could imagine not liking it as im not keen on 'power band' engines.

[Mr Momo]

I originally went to buy a 2nd hand 111S, but found the non-servoed brakes ackward. Jumped into the 111R and was easily faster on the test drive. It is more expensive, but it inspires confidence in a fairly average (in Elise terms) driver like me. The engine is a gem above 6200rpm.

[Davey S1]

Mr Momo said:

I originally went to buy a 2nd hand 111S, but found the non-servoed brakes ackward

Dont worry about the brakes too much, once you get used to them they feel really good and going back to servo assisted ones you realise how little feel they have in comparison.

IIIR brakes should be even better as although they are ABS it wont kick in until you relly mash the pedal.

[fish]

I looked at both and it didn't take me long to decide coming from a T350c. The 111r brakes are good except for the dust build up, the ABS is one of the best I have seen. I din't like the brakes in the S as the master cylinder is too small and if you want to really stop and heel and toe you can't put enough preasure on the pedal, good feel though, but I can't do without heel and toe as it is how I drive.

[DanH]

I wouldn't focus too much on 0-60s in Elises, they are all fairly good at that, whilst relatively less impressive 50-100 where you need it more often! I suspect the 111R will be more useful in that range.

Personally I'd go for the 111R, although I'd be inclined to go second hand and probably save the difference too.

[Randy]

buy an early second hand S2 and put a Honda in it. Best of all worlds and much much faster than the other options.

[adrnbtt]

Or a TurboTechnics supercharger and watch the baby go !!! :-)

[bher]

To go back to the first question:

I do believe the 111R is really more powerfull than the figures and numbers present in comparaison with the S. Some people of the club let me know however that the difference was not so big that the R will always overcome the S on short or twisty tracks.
The S with its "long gearbox" is a more liveable Elise, according to article the diff between the S and the std is not huge in the feeling, in the thrill of driving even if the numbers are there (3 sec 0-100)
Personnally, I ordered the S because it was the best value for money for my goal (week end car with occasionnal track days) I was affraid the std will be too "short" over 5000pm.
I feel myself as a real fan of Lotus BUT I have to admit that the price to the R was to high regarding the overall "aspect" of the car (and regarding it is a personnal toy...)
So in conclusion, if money is not an issue (or if you hesitate with a TVR), go for the R. Otherwhise the S could be the more reasonnable choice.

Ben
Still 3 months to wait

[mastiff]

As has already been said, they are VERY different cars (that suit different uses, as well as people), and both should be driven at length.

There is also an element of "wooden dollars" to be considered. The 111R will remain more expensive than the 111S in the future. Looking at the initial 4/5k difference is not looking at the entire picture.

They are both great cars !!!!

M.

[bher]

another point which influence me
I try to do not buy a car the first year it is produced, specially for small production ones.
I would feel bad if at the time of resale, everybody ask for at least a 2005 or -6 edition of the R, after cure of some small problem as we can see in the forum

Ben

[WhirlingDERVish]

DanH said:

relatively less impressive 50-100 where you need it more often!

I think this is a good point. My mk1 Elise was great at getting to 60 but was a bit gutless getting from 60 to 100. No doubt the S is better and the R is better still in this respect?

At face value the S seems like a lot of car for the money, a good deal, and perhaps the R would be more satisfying to someone who'd already had an S for a year and could appreciate the upgrade.

[carsarecool]

mustard said:

0-60 is only half the story, try the two and dont be afraid to exploit the revs well beyond 6000rpm two cars are chalk n cheese

Totally true.

I've had a 111s for 2 1/2 years, drove a 111r and it's a completely different car, feels much more grown up, better screwed together, better gear change (6 speed as well).

However, having said all that, if I were buying new now, I'd get another 111s, sports exhaust, decent air filter and be faster than the 111r......and save £5k.

IMHM.

[DanH]

If you want an S though, why bother getting a brand new one. May as well get one for 17k or so second hand. That way you can skip the first couple of years depreciation. Ok, so you might miss out on central locking and electric windows on an earlier 111s, but you have the right engine and it will weigh less.

One thing to consider though, is that apparently the 111R has a revised suspension lay out which seems less agressively prone to understeer than the Rover engined S2s. I'd definitely do a head to head to see if this bothers you. The S2s turn in understeer really began to eat at me towards the end of my ownership period.

In the end, if you can afford to buy new, you can probably afford to buy the better model? If not why waste any money on first year depreciation?

If I were getting the 111R, I'd personally look at how much it would cost to upgrade to the wider front alloys at purchase. They were an option when I was looking I believe (I was looking at the Exige though), and they allow fatter front tyres with better grip. Worth investigating if you anticipate track use.

>> Edited by DanH on Thursday 20th January 20:10

[X-Box]

WhirlingDERVish said:

X-Box Mmmm... Nice wheels... What colour scheme is that? Looks too bright for standard red >> Edited by WhirlingDERVish on Wednesday 19th January 20:08

That would be Sony Cybershot Ardent Red Pretty faithful rendition, considering the ambient light that day. Can't beleive they've stopped black wheels :-0

[mustard]

Re The Exige

My head says I should prefer the Elise, as I like soft tops, and dont like the rear visabilty out of the Exige.

But my heart loves the Exige, for some weird reason it just feels soo much more special (an gets more looks )

I can honestly say for £30k theres nothing I'd rather have, dont ask me why though! makes Porsche 911's and M3's seem so ordinary and common