Porsche build shoddy cars
Discussion
EricE said:
... based on some arbitrary rating system that accounts for the cost of the repair when something does go wrong.
Certainly, but Porsche, or rather we, need that.Unless you like being fleeced for the cost of parts you can identically obtain from the OEM manufacturer for a fraction of the cost.
Parts sales are an absolute racket and Porsche is right up there for racketeering. Oh, and the cost of extras when you buy the car, but hey, at least that's voluntary.
If the data was the cost of repairs divided by the number of cars then expensive cars will always appear at the bottom of the list although they may have less cars fail/100 - it is just that the cost of those that do is higher.
Apart from the relatively rare engine failures, we find all the models made from the late '90's really inexpensive to run (especially considering the performance and purchase price) hence our low cost Maintenance Plan (that also covers most of the costs of an engine failure - the labour).
Although many warranty companies do not cough up when problems become expensive - we honour all our obligations and responsibilities and hence provide a great way to run a brilliant car yet cover against a rare but costly failures.
Baz
Apart from the relatively rare engine failures, we find all the models made from the late '90's really inexpensive to run (especially considering the performance and purchase price) hence our low cost Maintenance Plan (that also covers most of the costs of an engine failure - the labour).
Although many warranty companies do not cough up when problems become expensive - we honour all our obligations and responsibilities and hence provide a great way to run a brilliant car yet cover against a rare but costly failures.
Baz
Hate to say it but I agree. I have an '08 3 Series and an '02 Boxster. OK so I get that the Porsche is older, however it has 80k on the clock and the BMW has 90k.
The BMW has had a lazy headlamp washer replaced, a battery, a fault with the central locking, and both lower rear wishbone balljoints replaced. That's it (excluding discs/pads/service items). It still looks and smells brand new. Some kid on a bike scratched all down one quarterpanel, but it's stayed rust free, and the wheels are corrosion free, even though they have had some kerb marks.
Looking through it's extensive history, most before my time, the Porsche has had coffin arms, ARB droplinks, window regulators, some brake pipes, ignition key, light switch, hood sundries, gear cables, seat cushions, wheel bearings, AC pipes. RMS, AOS all repaired or replaced. That's also not including discs or service items or cosmetic items such as a new hood. The split-rim wheels have been refurbed and some need doing again (just bubbling, no kerbing), and there is an annoying tiny patch of rust under the kickplate corners on the cills. The interior did look quite tatty and everything rattled, however a serious amount of leather refurb and a respray of every silver painted panel inside has brought it up very well indeed. However I must get the front tuning forks changed as they are rattling on small bumps now.
Don't get me wrong, my Porsche is a proper "Poverty Pork" car, and although when detailed most non-petrolheads think it's a £20k car, it still looks amazing for 13 years old and I love it to bits, and love every drive in it. However IMHO the build quality is simply nowhere near BMW...I've had four BMW's now too and they've all been just as good.
If the car was just a "boring" car and needed that much attention I'd have moved to something else long ago. It's just the looks, the badge, and the fun factor that make me forgive it's issues.
The BMW has had a lazy headlamp washer replaced, a battery, a fault with the central locking, and both lower rear wishbone balljoints replaced. That's it (excluding discs/pads/service items). It still looks and smells brand new. Some kid on a bike scratched all down one quarterpanel, but it's stayed rust free, and the wheels are corrosion free, even though they have had some kerb marks.
Looking through it's extensive history, most before my time, the Porsche has had coffin arms, ARB droplinks, window regulators, some brake pipes, ignition key, light switch, hood sundries, gear cables, seat cushions, wheel bearings, AC pipes. RMS, AOS all repaired or replaced. That's also not including discs or service items or cosmetic items such as a new hood. The split-rim wheels have been refurbed and some need doing again (just bubbling, no kerbing), and there is an annoying tiny patch of rust under the kickplate corners on the cills. The interior did look quite tatty and everything rattled, however a serious amount of leather refurb and a respray of every silver painted panel inside has brought it up very well indeed. However I must get the front tuning forks changed as they are rattling on small bumps now.
Don't get me wrong, my Porsche is a proper "Poverty Pork" car, and although when detailed most non-petrolheads think it's a £20k car, it still looks amazing for 13 years old and I love it to bits, and love every drive in it. However IMHO the build quality is simply nowhere near BMW...I've had four BMW's now too and they've all been just as good.
If the car was just a "boring" car and needed that much attention I'd have moved to something else long ago. It's just the looks, the badge, and the fun factor that make me forgive it's issues.
My BMWs have been far less reliable than my Porsche (1992 964).
The Porsche has never let me down in 3 years of ownership. The only parts that have needed replacement are 1 drop link and a pair of driveshaft boots. I had these done during servicing, and the cost was about £150 inc labour. Preventative maintenance, rather than complete failure.
By contrast, my 2004 Z4 has needed an intake hose, a coil pack, and a mirror glass (fell off on my driveway last night!) in 9 months. I shopped around for the parts, and fitted them myself, so not too expensive. Labour costs (and dealer parts prices) would have pushed the bill to around £400, as BMW charge £100 just to diagnose a fault.
My E61 has needed a new battery (£240) and I've just fixed a problem with the self-levelling rear suspension myself. Could've been a huge bill at the main dealer.
The Z4's predecessor was a Mini Cooper S convertible, the only one that's actually left me stranded when the battery failed. It also needed a new passenger seat wiring harness, and I spent many, many, hours rebuilding the interior in a vain attempt to cure the numerous squeaks and rattles. Hateful car, sold it after 3 months.
I hope I'm not tempting fate by replacing the 964 and Z4 with a 987S!
The Porsche has never let me down in 3 years of ownership. The only parts that have needed replacement are 1 drop link and a pair of driveshaft boots. I had these done during servicing, and the cost was about £150 inc labour. Preventative maintenance, rather than complete failure.
By contrast, my 2004 Z4 has needed an intake hose, a coil pack, and a mirror glass (fell off on my driveway last night!) in 9 months. I shopped around for the parts, and fitted them myself, so not too expensive. Labour costs (and dealer parts prices) would have pushed the bill to around £400, as BMW charge £100 just to diagnose a fault.
My E61 has needed a new battery (£240) and I've just fixed a problem with the self-levelling rear suspension myself. Could've been a huge bill at the main dealer.
The Z4's predecessor was a Mini Cooper S convertible, the only one that's actually left me stranded when the battery failed. It also needed a new passenger seat wiring harness, and I spent many, many, hours rebuilding the interior in a vain attempt to cure the numerous squeaks and rattles. Hateful car, sold it after 3 months.
I hope I'm not tempting fate by replacing the 964 and Z4 with a 987S!
clockworks said:
My BMWs have been far less reliable than my Porsche (1992 964).
The Porsche has never let me down in 3 years of ownership. The only parts that have needed replacement are 1 drop link and a pair of driveshaft boots. I had these done during servicing, and the cost was about £150 inc labour. Preventative maintenance, rather than complete failure.
By contrast, my 2004 Z4 has needed an intake hose, a coil pack, and a mirror glass (fell off on my driveway last night!) in 9 months. I shopped around for the parts, and fitted them myself, so not too expensive. Labour costs (and dealer parts prices) would have pushed the bill to around £400, as BMW charge £100 just to diagnose a fault.
My E61 has needed a new battery (£240) and I've just fixed a problem with the self-levelling rear suspension myself. Could've been a huge bill at the main dealer.
The Z4's predecessor was a Mini Cooper S convertible, the only one that's actually left me stranded when the battery failed. It also needed a new passenger seat wiring harness, and I spent many, many, hours rebuilding the interior in a vain attempt to cure the numerous squeaks and rattles. Hateful car, sold it after 3 months.
I hope I'm not tempting fate by replacing the 964 and Z4 with a 987S!
Ah, but your porker dates back to the years of solidity and designing for component repair rather than designing for entire component replacement. Parts prices shoot up if a whole unit is required rather than a minor widget.The Porsche has never let me down in 3 years of ownership. The only parts that have needed replacement are 1 drop link and a pair of driveshaft boots. I had these done during servicing, and the cost was about £150 inc labour. Preventative maintenance, rather than complete failure.
By contrast, my 2004 Z4 has needed an intake hose, a coil pack, and a mirror glass (fell off on my driveway last night!) in 9 months. I shopped around for the parts, and fitted them myself, so not too expensive. Labour costs (and dealer parts prices) would have pushed the bill to around £400, as BMW charge £100 just to diagnose a fault.
My E61 has needed a new battery (£240) and I've just fixed a problem with the self-levelling rear suspension myself. Could've been a huge bill at the main dealer.
The Z4's predecessor was a Mini Cooper S convertible, the only one that's actually left me stranded when the battery failed. It also needed a new passenger seat wiring harness, and I spent many, many, hours rebuilding the interior in a vain attempt to cure the numerous squeaks and rattles. Hateful car, sold it after 3 months.
I hope I'm not tempting fate by replacing the 964 and Z4 with a 987S!
None of my issues listed above with the Porsche actually stranded me...in fact the BMW was worse with it's comedy effort of leaving the front doors locked, whilst the rear doors and windows were both open. Yes, only way in/out of the car was through the back doors (and no, being PH, I just used the handle rather than smashing them in...)
I just personally find that the BMW is much, much more solidly screwed together than the Porsche. OK I get that the Porsche is a "performance" car and is likley to be a bit more highly strung, however there's no excuse for windows and doors and ignition keys etc.
And yes, good point, coil packs need to go on the list too. Add boot releases that did'nt work, ditto boot/bonnet lights, rear number plate lights, hood out of adjustment too.
In the Porsche's defence, all those items are for the whole history of the car, not just my ownership. And yes, although that doesn't read well, it does now mean that I have a pretty sorted car! And there's no doubt, it loves to be driven. It had been sat for a while when I bought it and lots of it sounded and felt like a bag of spanners on the way home. It just needed a service and some miles and lots of the noises and niggles dissapeared on their own accord...
I just personally find that the BMW is much, much more solidly screwed together than the Porsche. OK I get that the Porsche is a "performance" car and is likley to be a bit more highly strung, however there's no excuse for windows and doors and ignition keys etc.
And yes, good point, coil packs need to go on the list too. Add boot releases that did'nt work, ditto boot/bonnet lights, rear number plate lights, hood out of adjustment too.
In the Porsche's defence, all those items are for the whole history of the car, not just my ownership. And yes, although that doesn't read well, it does now mean that I have a pretty sorted car! And there's no doubt, it loves to be driven. It had been sat for a while when I bought it and lots of it sounded and felt like a bag of spanners on the way home. It just needed a service and some miles and lots of the noises and niggles dissapeared on their own accord...
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