Discussion
The next village to where I live has a 30mph limit through it.It then changes to NSL.They have built a few new houses along this road.There are now nice new signs to show the new start of the NSL about 200yds further along this road (after the new houses).Unfortunately (?) the old signs are still in place!(before the new houses) What is the speed limit between the two signs showing NSL?
Also in the same vicinity they have reduced a road from NSL to 40mph yet the NSL repeaters are still attached to the lamp posts.Which sign takes priority?
Also in the same vicinity they have reduced a road from NSL to 40mph yet the NSL repeaters are still attached to the lamp posts.Which sign takes priority?
Not sure of the legal standpoint whatsoever but I'd bet the lower limit takes priority.
There were roadworks on a stretch of 3 lane motorway near me a couple of years ago and a temporary limit of 50mph was set.
The roadworks were finished, and then removed completely early one Saturday but, mysteriously, a single 50mph sign was left in the central reservation. The signs warning of a temporary limit had gone, as had all of the cones, as had the NSL signs which were at the end of the roadworks.
A friend of mine was using said motorway at about 0630 on the following Sunday. He dropped down the slip, saw the roadworks had gone, ignored the 50mph sign thinking it had been overlooked by the contractors and joined lane 1. He passed under a bridge at the next junction and spotted a scamera van on top of the next bridge. Checked his speed...about 75mph. No worries.
A week later he received a NIP for 75 in a 50 limit.
Barstewards...
There were roadworks on a stretch of 3 lane motorway near me a couple of years ago and a temporary limit of 50mph was set.
The roadworks were finished, and then removed completely early one Saturday but, mysteriously, a single 50mph sign was left in the central reservation. The signs warning of a temporary limit had gone, as had all of the cones, as had the NSL signs which were at the end of the roadworks.
A friend of mine was using said motorway at about 0630 on the following Sunday. He dropped down the slip, saw the roadworks had gone, ignored the 50mph sign thinking it had been overlooked by the contractors and joined lane 1. He passed under a bridge at the next junction and spotted a scamera van on top of the next bridge. Checked his speed...about 75mph. No worries.
A week later he received a NIP for 75 in a 50 limit.
Barstewards...
What I meant was ..If I go past a "normal" sized 40mph sign and then the next sign on the road is a NSL repeater and then 400yds further on a "normal" sized NSL sign does the NSL start at the repeater?.This is a place where the 40 limit has been extended and I assume they have forgotten to remove the repeater.If I were to be NIP'd for NSL before the normal sized NSL sign what would be the outcome? It's all getting complicated now.
I know what you mean, but if it came to it, passing an NSL repeater should be enough to enforce NSL limit. How on earth are you supposed to know if the sign is wrong or you've simply missed an earlier "large" NSL sign? Can't imagine any court in the land would convict on that if presented with evidence.
Last Friday I saw what seemed to be peculiar speed limit signage on the A591 near Grasmere.
I had travelled from Keswick, past Thirlmere and down Dunmail Raise, through the bend by the Travellers' Rest and then came upon a 'derestriction'
sign. Only a couple of hundred yards further on was a 40 mph sign, and then, somewhere near the Swan Hotel, a 30 mph sign.
Based on what I saw, Dunmail Raise (and who knows how much more of that road) would appear to be subject to a 40 mph limit.
Can anybody shed any light on this?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I had travelled from Keswick, past Thirlmere and down Dunmail Raise, through the bend by the Travellers' Rest and then came upon a 'derestriction'
sign. Only a couple of hundred yards further on was a 40 mph sign, and then, somewhere near the Swan Hotel, a 30 mph sign. Based on what I saw, Dunmail Raise (and who knows how much more of that road) would appear to be subject to a 40 mph limit.
Can anybody shed any light on this?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
SotonS2 said:
Not sure of the legal standpoint whatsoever but I'd bet the lower limit takes priority.
There were roadworks on a stretch of 3 lane motorway near me a couple of years ago and a temporary limit of 50mph was set.
The roadworks were finished, and then removed completely early one Saturday but, mysteriously, a single 50mph sign was left in the central reservation. The signs warning of a temporary limit had gone, as had all of the cones, as had the NSL signs which were at the end of the roadworks.
A friend of mine was using said motorway at about 0630 on the following Sunday. He dropped down the slip, saw the roadworks had gone, ignored the 50mph sign thinking it had been overlooked by the contractors and joined lane 1. He passed under a bridge at the next junction and spotted a scamera van on top of the next bridge. Checked his speed...about 75mph. No worries.
A week later he received a NIP for 75 in a 50 limit.
Barstewards...
Shame it wasn't 6 mph slower, and he may well have got away with it, assuming he could take pictures of the road etc...
SotonS2 said:
There were roadworks on a stretch of 3 lane motorway near me a couple of years ago and a temporary limit of 50mph was set.
The roadworks were finished, and then removed completely early one Saturday but, mysteriously, a single 50mph sign was left in the central reservation. The signs warning of a temporary limit had gone, as had all of the cones, as had the NSL signs which were at the end of the roadworks.
A friend of mine was using said motorway at about 0630 on the following Sunday. He dropped down the slip, saw the roadworks had gone, ignored the 50mph sign thinking it had been overlooked by the contractors and joined lane 1. He passed under a bridge at the next junction and spotted a scamera van on top of the next bridge. Checked his speed...about 75mph. No worries.
A week later he received a NIP for 75 in a 50 limit.
Barstewards...
On what you say Soton then no offence committed. Why?
For roadworks a temporary speed restriction Order is made under S.14 RTRAct 84. As such it has to be SIGNED like other "normal" speed limits in accordance with Traffic Signs and General Directions 2002 to be a lawful restriction.
The 50MPH SIGN is Sign No 670 under Schedule 2 TSGD"s.
Regulation 36 of TSGD deals with restrictions on the placing of temporary signs and outlines that signs may be placed only in connection with the execution of works on a road or temporary obstruction and any such sign so placed AND ANY OTHER SIGN SHOWN IN A DIAGRAM IN SCHEDULES 1 to 11 (50 is in Schedule 2)so placed SHALL NOT BE RETAINED on or near the road AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THE WORK (with certain exception which the 50 sign is not mentioned).
So the road works were completed and the 50 sign should had been removed. Having been removed, whilst the Order itself would mention the time scale that it was valid, the fact the sign should have been removed the limit was not signed in accordance with the Directions then prosecution for exceeding the temp limit was illegal.
This arguement was successfully presented by a Defending Solicitor last year but I cannot find the item itself.
Funny old world isn't it.
DVD
TripleS said:
Last Friday I saw what seemed to be peculiar speed limit signage on the A591 near Grasmere.
I had travelled from Keswick, past Thirlmere and down Dunmail Raise, through the bend by the Travellers' Rest and then came upon a 'derestriction'
Based on what I saw, Dunmail Raise (and who knows how much more of that road) would appear to be subject to a 40 mph limit.
Can anybody shed any light on this?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Dunmail Raise is nsl from all of the way from just outside Grasmere, it was this morning anyway.
It is poorly signposted heading from Keswick but it makes sense going the other way.
Biggest hazard on that road is being buzzed by the RAF on the top of Dunmail, nearly crashed my bike last time it happened, boy did they make me jump!
It happens all the time when I'm driving the car but they're not as noisy when you're in a box!
>> Edited by _Dave_ on Thursday 20th January 19:18
_Dave_ said:
Last Friday I saw what seemed to be peculiar speed limit signage on the A591 near Grasmere.
I had travelled from Keswick, past Thirlmere and down Dunmail Raise, through the bend by the Travellers' Rest and then came upon a 'derestriction'
Based on what I saw, Dunmail Raise (and who knows how much more of that road) would appear to be subject to a 40 mph limit.
Can anybody shed any light on this?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Dunmail Raise is nsl from all of the way from just outside Grasmere, it was this morning anyway.
It is poorly signposted heading from Keswick but it makes sense going the other way.
Biggest hazard on that road is being buzzed by the RAF on the top of Dunmail, nearly crashed my bike last time it happened, boy did they make me jump!
It happens all the time when I'm driving the car but they're not as noisy when you're in a box!
Thanks for that Dave.
I don't remember the signage starting from the Keswick end, but the speed limit signs between the Swan Hotel and the Travellers' Rest certainly seemed very odd last Friday unless I've been imagining things.
You're right though about the flyers and their startling noise. Standing on top of Silver Howe (+1293 feet?) you can look down on them sometimes as they fly up the valley!
Best wishes all,
Dave.
SotonS2 said:
Not sure of the legal standpoint whatsoever but I'd bet the lower limit takes priority.
There were roadworks on a stretch of 3 lane motorway near me a couple of years ago and a temporary limit of 50mph was set.
--cut--
A week later he received a NIP for 75 in a 50 limit.
Barstewards...
Definitely take this one to court (if everyone went to court, the whole system would stop!), it looks like the police were and are wasting police time and not doing their job: protecting the citizen and upholding the law.
The more people questioning this type of mugging the better, another victimless crime until the police attacked your friend.
kevinday said:
AFAIK if the signage is incorrect then NSL applies.
It depends upon whether a system of street lighting is in place or not.
If there is then in the absence of correct signage it could be argued that the road reverts to a restricted road hence 30. Otherwise if street lights not present at intervals 200yds or less then the limit is NSL.
I don't know why councils regularly make such a FUBAR of this, not rocket science imo.
esselte said:
The next village to where I live has a 30mph limit through it.It then changes to NSL.They have built a few new houses along this road.There are now nice new signs to show the new start of the NSL about 200yds further along this road (after the new houses).Unfortunately (?) the old signs are still in place!(before the new houses) What is the speed limit between the two signs showing NSL?
Also in the same vicinity they have reduced a road from NSL to 40mph yet the NSL repeaters are still attached to the lamp posts.Which sign takes priority?
So on the road inquestion we have the 30 restriction (A)at the end of which is the NSL sign(B). After this development in the new housing followed by another new
NSL sign(C).
(A) to (B) will be the extent of the speed restiction Order. With the new development either a new Order will be in the process of being made so that when so (A) to (C) will be new distance. Looks as if LA have erected (C) in anticipation of the new Order.
As to the speed limit between (C) and (B)will depend on what is in the old Order and progress of the addition.
FiF comments should be bourne in mind if lamps present.
If the NSL repeater signs are present within the 40 limit then signage does not comply with TSGD and alegal arguemnt against enforcement of the 40 limit.
DVD
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