Road riding etiquette
Discussion
Good morning,
I'll start by saying this isn't a rant and certainly not a car v cycling post rather an observation.
I'm a fair weather rider (my Mrs shames me by doing the cycling commute in most weathers) so once the weather cheers up I cycle to work. my commute is only 3 miles so I can get it in the office in 20 minutes. Other days I drive and do the gym.
So I was driving in this morning (chilly and I'm working on my swim at the mo) and a noticed a roadie ahead riding down the middle of the road, on occasion closer to the hazard warning line (if that's its called) I was a few cars behind but this was an urban road and it was a nightmare for cars to overtake him. It was about 7:10 so the roads were quiet enough I guess but it just seemed to me that he was putting himself in danger?
So what is the correct etiquette? Common sense to me and how I was taught on my cycling proficiency was ride as extreme left as you can but far out enough that you were not weaving around road features, drains etc.
My Mrs only started road biking a few years ago and these tips I passed to her as I'd hate to see her in A&E after someone clipped her while over taking.
I just wanted to hear other views on it? Personally I thought the rider was a tool was riding selfishly and putting himself in unnecessary danger but maybe I'm reading this completely wrong and that riding style is safer?
Just curious what the PH riders thought
Cheers T1b
I'll start by saying this isn't a rant and certainly not a car v cycling post rather an observation.
I'm a fair weather rider (my Mrs shames me by doing the cycling commute in most weathers) so once the weather cheers up I cycle to work. my commute is only 3 miles so I can get it in the office in 20 minutes. Other days I drive and do the gym.
So I was driving in this morning (chilly and I'm working on my swim at the mo) and a noticed a roadie ahead riding down the middle of the road, on occasion closer to the hazard warning line (if that's its called) I was a few cars behind but this was an urban road and it was a nightmare for cars to overtake him. It was about 7:10 so the roads were quiet enough I guess but it just seemed to me that he was putting himself in danger?
So what is the correct etiquette? Common sense to me and how I was taught on my cycling proficiency was ride as extreme left as you can but far out enough that you were not weaving around road features, drains etc.
My Mrs only started road biking a few years ago and these tips I passed to her as I'd hate to see her in A&E after someone clipped her while over taking.
I just wanted to hear other views on it? Personally I thought the rider was a tool was riding selfishly and putting himself in unnecessary danger but maybe I'm reading this completely wrong and that riding style is safer?
Just curious what the PH riders thought
Cheers T1b
T1berious said:
Good morning,
I'll start by saying this isn't a rant and certainly not a car v cycling post rather an observation.
I'm a fair weather rider (my Mrs shames me by doing the cycling commute in most weathers) so once the weather cheers up I cycle to work. my commute is only 3 miles so I can get it in the office in 20 minutes. Other days I drive and do the gym.
So I was driving in this morning (chilly and I'm working on my swim at the mo) and a noticed a roadie ahead riding down the middle of the road, on occasion closer to the hazard warning line (if that's its called) I was a few cars behind but this was an urban road and it was a nightmare for cars to overtake him. It was about 7:10 so the roads were quiet enough I guess but it just seemed to me that he was putting himself in danger?
So what is the correct etiquette? Common sense to me and how I was taught on my cycling proficiency was ride as extreme left as you can but far out enough that you were not weaving around road features, drains etc.
My Mrs only started road biking a few years ago and these tips I passed to her as I'd hate to see her in A&E after someone clipped her while over taking.
I just wanted to hear other views on it? Personally I thought the rider was a tool was riding selfishly and putting himself in unnecessary danger but maybe I'm reading this completely wrong and that riding style is safer?
Just curious what the PH riders thought
Cheers T1b
Possibly trying to make himself more visible by his road positioning and also preventing car drivers 'squeezing' past. I'll start by saying this isn't a rant and certainly not a car v cycling post rather an observation.
I'm a fair weather rider (my Mrs shames me by doing the cycling commute in most weathers) so once the weather cheers up I cycle to work. my commute is only 3 miles so I can get it in the office in 20 minutes. Other days I drive and do the gym.
So I was driving in this morning (chilly and I'm working on my swim at the mo) and a noticed a roadie ahead riding down the middle of the road, on occasion closer to the hazard warning line (if that's its called) I was a few cars behind but this was an urban road and it was a nightmare for cars to overtake him. It was about 7:10 so the roads were quiet enough I guess but it just seemed to me that he was putting himself in danger?
So what is the correct etiquette? Common sense to me and how I was taught on my cycling proficiency was ride as extreme left as you can but far out enough that you were not weaving around road features, drains etc.
My Mrs only started road biking a few years ago and these tips I passed to her as I'd hate to see her in A&E after someone clipped her while over taking.
I just wanted to hear other views on it? Personally I thought the rider was a tool was riding selfishly and putting himself in unnecessary danger but maybe I'm reading this completely wrong and that riding style is safer?
Just curious what the PH riders thought
Cheers T1b
Hope you've got your thick skin on.. this will be one of those threads.
Quite possible the rider was a twunt, but:
Etiquette generally applies between cyclists, not to cars
NEVER the extreme left. At least a 2ft off the kerb, otherwise you will get clipped and end up in A&E. You need enough room to move when (not if) you get squeezed, and often a lot more to make cars think about overtaking. Problem is that there is a significant amount of drivers don't think of, or treat passing a bike as an overtake, just something to be driven past, especially if you are off their line of travel.
That results in a lot of 'close' passes, getting squeezed when the oncoming car is a little closer than they are comfortable with (and so move left into you), and of course the 'left hook' when they turn left during / immediately after passing you. Personally I don't think it's malicious, but it is real. Ride further out in the line of sight/travel and that has to change. In honesty, frustrating as it is from the driving seat, slowing down behind a bike for a minute or two makes little difference to a journey. Chances are they catch you at the next set of lights anyway
Quite possible the rider was a twunt, but:
Etiquette generally applies between cyclists, not to cars
NEVER the extreme left. At least a 2ft off the kerb, otherwise you will get clipped and end up in A&E. You need enough room to move when (not if) you get squeezed, and often a lot more to make cars think about overtaking. Problem is that there is a significant amount of drivers don't think of, or treat passing a bike as an overtake, just something to be driven past, especially if you are off their line of travel.
That results in a lot of 'close' passes, getting squeezed when the oncoming car is a little closer than they are comfortable with (and so move left into you), and of course the 'left hook' when they turn left during / immediately after passing you. Personally I don't think it's malicious, but it is real. Ride further out in the line of sight/travel and that has to change. In honesty, frustrating as it is from the driving seat, slowing down behind a bike for a minute or two makes little difference to a journey. Chances are they catch you at the next set of lights anyway
T1berious said:
Good morning,
I was a few cars behind but this was an urban road and it was a nightmare for cars to overtake him.
Probably means he felt he had to take the lane as the road was not wide enough for cars to pass safely but was wide enough for them to try squeezing past. Absolutely the correct thing to do if that is the case.I was a few cars behind but this was an urban road and it was a nightmare for cars to overtake him.
If it is nightmare to overtake there is a good sign that the road was not safe to overtake anyway and he was going the right thing.
Edited by SteveSteveson on Friday 1st May 09:19
My dad went on a speed awareness course and apparently cyclists are now being told to ride in the middle of the road for safety!
Anyway, I will only take the middle of the road at junctions, just to make myself visible, otherwise, I generally keep left.
Obviously parked cars make it a bit of a squeeze, but even then I'll avoid cycling dow the centre line. I just rely on my cat like reflexes if someone opens a door in front of me That and a lot of swearing!
My initial thought was the chap mentioned by the OP was being a bit of idiot.
Anyway, I will only take the middle of the road at junctions, just to make myself visible, otherwise, I generally keep left.
Obviously parked cars make it a bit of a squeeze, but even then I'll avoid cycling dow the centre line. I just rely on my cat like reflexes if someone opens a door in front of me
That and a lot of swearing! My initial thought was the chap mentioned by the OP was being a bit of idiot.
As some have posted above,
He may have been moving out to prevent cars squeezing past where the road width would prevent them giving him sufficient room.
Or he could have been moving out to avoid pot holes. It's not uncommon to find whole sections near the kerbside that have been dug up by a utilities contractor and relaid so poorly that they have since badly subsided. To the extent that to ride over it would risk buckling a wheel or could even throw you off.
Or he may be positioning himself to make him more visible to those emerging from side roads on the left or turning right across his path from the other direction. Many of those who only drive cars subconsciously only look for other cars before turning, and fail to notice other road users in non-car positions, such as the gutter.
As per the highway code, It's courteous to keep as far left as possible but there's no legal obligation to do so. When cycling we're entitled to a whole lane just like any other road user. There are occasions when the need for safety overrides the default desire to be courteous, and I'll make use that entitlement. I'm less likely to do so if I'm slogging up a hill at 12 MPH but much more likely to if I'm coming down the other side at 35 MPH.
Or he may have just been being a tool. Inconsiderate people don't suddenly become considerate when they get on a bicycle, any more than they do when they get in a car. It's just there are a greater number of cars, so you meet a greater number of inconsiderate motorists in a given week, and an inconsiderate cyclist stands out more. If we posted in General Gassing every time an inconsiderate car driver nearly took one of us out, we'd monopolise the place.
He may have been moving out to prevent cars squeezing past where the road width would prevent them giving him sufficient room.
Or he could have been moving out to avoid pot holes. It's not uncommon to find whole sections near the kerbside that have been dug up by a utilities contractor and relaid so poorly that they have since badly subsided. To the extent that to ride over it would risk buckling a wheel or could even throw you off.
Or he may be positioning himself to make him more visible to those emerging from side roads on the left or turning right across his path from the other direction. Many of those who only drive cars subconsciously only look for other cars before turning, and fail to notice other road users in non-car positions, such as the gutter.
Or he may have just been being a tool. Inconsiderate people don't suddenly become considerate when they get on a bicycle, any more than they do when they get in a car. It's just there are a greater number of cars, so you meet a greater number of inconsiderate motorists in a given week, and an inconsiderate cyclist stands out more. If we posted in General Gassing every time an inconsiderate car driver nearly took one of us out, we'd monopolise the place.
Edited by SixPotBelly on Friday 1st May 10:09
SixPotBelly said:
As per the highway code, it's courteous to keep as far left as possible but there's no legal obligation to do so.
The highway code says nothing about keeping left. The closest it gets is to say cycle no more than two abreast and single file on narrow roads. It does however tell drivers to only overtake when it is safe to do so and leave cyclists (and other vulnerable road users) plenty of room. If people did wait until it was safe and gave plenty of room there would be no need to take the lane.Edited by SteveSteveson on Friday 1st May 09:56
SixPotBelly said:
SteveSteveson said:
The highway code says nothing about keeping left.
Thanks for the correction Edited by SteveSteveson on Friday 1st May 09:56
Glad to see it didn't come across badly. I edited and edited that worried that it would come across confrontational, but I had to say something as it's one of those rules that so many people think they know and causes us so much grief. When I did my motorbike test after ten years of driving I realized how much stuff I was doing wrong.I can see why more cyclist do it. I got overtaken on a blind corner on a country road by some idiot in a land rover the other day causing the car coming the other way to take avoiding action. After he took a dislike at my polite hand signals towards him he slowed to speak(shout) to me saying I was riding in the middle of the road, which basically meant I wasnt practically on the grass so he could overtake without slowing down. Its amazing how many car drivers have this attitude that cyclists should see them coming and jump out of their way.
Is the new advice to cycle in the middle of your lane or cycle in the middle of the road? Its a big difference. I try to be about a metre from the curb. The trick is to be aware of whats behind you and in front so you can react to any circumstance. Sometimes I move over more to give the driver behind more confidence in passing, but other times I will be wider to make sure no-one can pass if it will risk me, such as when approaching a junction.
I think the current advice is to take the primary position (where a the driver of a car is) when appropriate. Same as on a motorbike. I don't think it's so much "You should cycle in the middle of the lane/road" as much as "Don't be bullied in to cycling in the gutter". Cycle in a place appropriate for the road.
On the MTFU front - to each his / her own....
The road was Wake green road Birmingham. I could understand it if he was preventing cars over taking as it was unsafe but I've cycled that road loads and with enough clearance of the roadside to avoid drains etc, I've never felt threatened and as it's a small climb most drivers drive extreme right as the road starts as 2 cars wide due to a bus stop and narrows.
The road does not have parked cars on it So was clear
pro rider (as I'll call him) was for the most part a couple of feet from the hazard line or closer at some points.
I cycle with lights even in bright weather (and encourage by Mrs to do the same) and to be fair pro rider was using a pretty good rear light so was easily seen, his ninja outfit didn't get my vote of more concern to me was, why was he riding like that? As fast as he was he wasn't doing 49 Km/h, anyone wanting to overtake was placed in on coming traffic, when tucking over like most cyclists allows all road users safe use of the road.
to be fair, he's the only guy I've seen ride like that but it felt a bit "my road, my rules!" which of course it isn't.
I'd hate to a have a bus bearing down on me like that, I'd rather just let them pass.
The road was Wake green road Birmingham. I could understand it if he was preventing cars over taking as it was unsafe but I've cycled that road loads and with enough clearance of the roadside to avoid drains etc, I've never felt threatened and as it's a small climb most drivers drive extreme right as the road starts as 2 cars wide due to a bus stop and narrows.
The road does not have parked cars on it So was clear
pro rider (as I'll call him) was for the most part a couple of feet from the hazard line or closer at some points.
I cycle with lights even in bright weather (and encourage by Mrs to do the same) and to be fair pro rider was using a pretty good rear light so was easily seen, his ninja outfit didn't get my vote of more concern to me was, why was he riding like that? As fast as he was he wasn't doing 49 Km/h, anyone wanting to overtake was placed in on coming traffic, when tucking over like most cyclists allows all road users safe use of the road.
to be fair, he's the only guy I've seen ride like that but it felt a bit "my road, my rules!" which of course it isn't.
I'd hate to a have a bus bearing down on me like that, I'd rather just let them pass.
Batfink said:
Sometimes I move over more to give the driver behind more confidence in passing, but other times I will be wider to make sure no-one can pass if it will risk me, such as when approaching a junction.
^This^Sometimes I slow down and wave a nervous driver through, you can hear them over your shoulder, shall I? shan't I?
Just makes me nervous. Rest of the time I hug the left with enough distance to avoid drains, road debris etc.
T1berious said:
How does a car safely overtake a cyclist there without crossing into the oncoming lane, it doesn't look a very wide road? In which case what difference does it make to where the cyclist is positioned, the oncoming lane has to be fully clear to complete a safe overtake.SixPotBelly said:
As some have posted above,
He may have been moving out to prevent cars squeezing past where the road width would prevent them giving him sufficient room.
Or he could have been moving out to avoid pot holes. It's not uncommon to find whole sections near the kerbside that have been dug up by a utilities contractor and relaid so poorly that they have since badly subsided. To the extent that to ride over it would risk buckling a wheel or could even throw you off.
Or he may be positioning himself to make him more visible to those emerging from side roads on the left or turning right across his path from the other direction. Many of those who only drive cars subconsciously only look for other cars before turning, and fail to notice other road users in non-car positions, such as the gutter.
As per the highway code, It's courteous to keep as far left as possible but there's no legal obligation to do so. When cycling we're entitled to a whole lane just like any other road user. There are occasions when the need for safety overrides the default desire to be courteous, and I'll make use that entitlement. I'm less likely to do so if I'm slogging up a hill at 12 MPH but much more likely to if I'm coming down the other side at 35 MPH.
Or he may have just been being a tool. Inconsiderate people don't suddenly become considerate when they get on a bicycle, any more than they do when they get in a car. It's just there are a greater number of cars, so you meet a greater number of inconsiderate motorists in a given week, and an inconsiderate cyclist stands out more. If we posted in General Gassing every time an inconsiderate car driver nearly took one of us out, we'd monopolise the place.
Great post, covers all the angles of this topic.He may have been moving out to prevent cars squeezing past where the road width would prevent them giving him sufficient room.
Or he could have been moving out to avoid pot holes. It's not uncommon to find whole sections near the kerbside that have been dug up by a utilities contractor and relaid so poorly that they have since badly subsided. To the extent that to ride over it would risk buckling a wheel or could even throw you off.
Or he may be positioning himself to make him more visible to those emerging from side roads on the left or turning right across his path from the other direction. Many of those who only drive cars subconsciously only look for other cars before turning, and fail to notice other road users in non-car positions, such as the gutter.
Or he may have just been being a tool. Inconsiderate people don't suddenly become considerate when they get on a bicycle, any more than they do when they get in a car. It's just there are a greater number of cars, so you meet a greater number of inconsiderate motorists in a given week, and an inconsiderate cyclist stands out more. If we posted in General Gassing every time an inconsiderate car driver nearly took one of us out, we'd monopolise the place.
Edited by SixPotBelly on Friday 1st May 10:09
OP, it does sound like the rider in question was being a selfish dick, but it is hard to be sure unless you've seen it yourself. The hazard line you are referring to, is that the centre line of the road?
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff