Mothball GT3 or sell for ...... Better House?
Discussion
This is a huge question and one that can be answered from so many angles.
If it was just a car I could go out and replace in a few years it would probably be sold by now, but the worry the enjoyment isn't over yet and the fear I wouldn't be able to replace in years to come has really put me in a position I've never been in with a car before.
I've had it for four years and 25,000 glorious miles, but find myself using it less and less due to other cars I've acquired through the passage of time. I'm finding it TOO precious to leave anywhere, TOO harsh to use on many roads and now TOO valuable to use on track. So where do I use it? As it's turing out, on very few occasions.
The car has done a little over 5,000miles in 18months. I'm now thinking the money could now be used in other ways as I'm now viewing it as 'an appreciating asset' and for me thats inhibitive of using the car for what it was bought for. Enjoyment.
We could use this money for a new house which we could enjoy everyday, and not for only when the sun is shining and the circumstances are right. But will I live to regret it when they are out with reach if the GT3 itch ever comes back to haunt!
I'm doing some real soul searching here, and honestly unsure of what to do with it. I've never been a believer in letting cars sit idle for too long, but I've also never been in a position where I've owned a car that appears to be appreciating just quite as much.
Any input greatly appreciated,
Stevie
If it was just a car I could go out and replace in a few years it would probably be sold by now, but the worry the enjoyment isn't over yet and the fear I wouldn't be able to replace in years to come has really put me in a position I've never been in with a car before.
I've had it for four years and 25,000 glorious miles, but find myself using it less and less due to other cars I've acquired through the passage of time. I'm finding it TOO precious to leave anywhere, TOO harsh to use on many roads and now TOO valuable to use on track. So where do I use it? As it's turing out, on very few occasions.
The car has done a little over 5,000miles in 18months. I'm now thinking the money could now be used in other ways as I'm now viewing it as 'an appreciating asset' and for me thats inhibitive of using the car for what it was bought for. Enjoyment.
We could use this money for a new house which we could enjoy everyday, and not for only when the sun is shining and the circumstances are right. But will I live to regret it when they are out with reach if the GT3 itch ever comes back to haunt!
I'm doing some real soul searching here, and honestly unsure of what to do with it. I've never been a believer in letting cars sit idle for too long, but I've also never been in a position where I've owned a car that appears to be appreciating just quite as much.
Any input greatly appreciated,
Stevie
If the car sells for £50k (to pick an arbitrary figure) and you put that into a house (which you enjoy everyday) then the money will still be in an appreciating asset. So in say 5 years time it cost you £70k to effectively buy the car back that may not actually be a bad deal as it might not be massively different to what the capital in the house has grown to by then, especially when you take fixed annual costs of insurance and tax into account (I wouldn't go so far as to include running costs like fuel, tyres etc, as the use of these equals enjoyment & pleasure).
Ultimately only you can decide though, this is clearly a part emotional decision.
Oh, and as a reference I only do about 2,000 miles a year in my Carrera (and I don't expect to ever sell it), so I think you're using yours enough, much less wouldn't be ideal though.
Ultimately only you can decide though, this is clearly a part emotional decision.
Oh, and as a reference I only do about 2,000 miles a year in my Carrera (and I don't expect to ever sell it), so I think you're using yours enough, much less wouldn't be ideal though.
Been there and done the soul searching - i would keep the car if you know its a good one !
Finding one as good in a few years will be very hard . Nothing wrong with 2-3k annual mileage of
Priceless high days and holidays . I sold a 964 turbo 3.6 because i thought it was too valuable
To drive much . Very comfortable with using my low mileage 996 GT3 i bought recently and the thing
I regret most about the 964 was worrying about the mileage . It really made no difference and i should
Have used it more .
Finding one as good in a few years will be very hard . Nothing wrong with 2-3k annual mileage of
Priceless high days and holidays . I sold a 964 turbo 3.6 because i thought it was too valuable
To drive much . Very comfortable with using my low mileage 996 GT3 i bought recently and the thing
I regret most about the 964 was worrying about the mileage . It really made no difference and i should
Have used it more .
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This. In my opinion! I think we are approaching dizzying heights again for sought after cars, but the economy isn't exactly rock solid and stable at the moment, and any sudden change is going to have a faster effect on the car market than the house market. I thought that last year and missed another big rise . It could fall back but so could the
Housing market which is also looking overstretched . It comes back to whether you are willing to take the risk
Of struggling to find a comparable car . I was ready to jump ship to another model anyway . Is the OP ?
Housing market which is also looking overstretched . It comes back to whether you are willing to take the risk
Of struggling to find a comparable car . I was ready to jump ship to another model anyway . Is the OP ?
I personally think the market will fall again (at least for LHD cars, which is what I look at) once interest rates go up. Looking at price development on mobile.de, it looks like loads of speculators in the market. I am not even sure cars are selling anymore at anywhere close to quoted asking prices.
996 GT3, 997 RS (low mileage 997.1 RS for more than 300k Euros ...), 550 Maranello asking prices feel like they have more than doubled over winter. So I think if you can get good money, it is not unreasonable to assume that investing the money in an appreciating asset (house) is a good play for a few years.
Having said all that, I also rather have money in a car than in a house - and I get a lot more benefit out of a car than a slightly better house ...
996 GT3, 997 RS (low mileage 997.1 RS for more than 300k Euros ...), 550 Maranello asking prices feel like they have more than doubled over winter. So I think if you can get good money, it is not unreasonable to assume that investing the money in an appreciating asset (house) is a good play for a few years.
Having said all that, I also rather have money in a car than in a house - and I get a lot more benefit out of a car than a slightly better house ...
MDL111 said:
I personally think the market will fall again (at least for LHD cars, which is what I look at) once interest rates go up. Looking at price development on mobile.de, it looks like loads of speculators in the market. I am not even sure cars are selling anymore at anywhere close to quoted asking prices.
996 GT3, 997 RS (low mileage 997.1 RS for more than 300k Euros ...), 550 Maranello asking prices feel like they have more than doubled over winter. So I think if you can get good money, it is not unreasonable to assume that investing the money in an appreciating asset (house) is a good play for a few years.
Having said all that, I also rather have money in a car than in a house - and I get a lot more benefit out of a car than a slightly better house ...
I kind of disagree. At the Technoclassica in Essen last month, the prices seem to have ratcheted up another notch or 2 from last year. The prices seen at this event generally set the prices for the market for the year. Agreed, €340k for a GT3 is crazy but I don't personally see them cooling off as the likes of the Mezger engine are not likely to seen in production cars ever again. The modular design of all the current Porsche engines is here to stay.996 GT3, 997 RS (low mileage 997.1 RS for more than 300k Euros ...), 550 Maranello asking prices feel like they have more than doubled over winter. So I think if you can get good money, it is not unreasonable to assume that investing the money in an appreciating asset (house) is a good play for a few years.
Having said all that, I also rather have money in a car than in a house - and I get a lot more benefit out of a car than a slightly better house ...
Richie200 said:
MDL111 said:
I personally think the market will fall again (at least for LHD cars, which is what I look at) once interest rates go up. Looking at price development on mobile.de, it looks like loads of speculators in the market. I am not even sure cars are selling anymore at anywhere close to quoted asking prices.
996 GT3, 997 RS (low mileage 997.1 RS for more than 300k Euros ...), 550 Maranello asking prices feel like they have more than doubled over winter. So I think if you can get good money, it is not unreasonable to assume that investing the money in an appreciating asset (house) is a good play for a few years.
Having said all that, I also rather have money in a car than in a house - and I get a lot more benefit out of a car than a slightly better house ...
I kind of disagree. At the Technoclassica in Essen last month, the prices seem to have ratcheted up another notch or 2 from last year. The prices seen at this event generally set the prices for the market for the year. Agreed, €340k for a GT3 is crazy but I don't personally see them cooling off as the likes of the Mezger engine are not likely to seen in production cars ever again. The modular design of all the current Porsche engines is here to stay.996 GT3, 997 RS (low mileage 997.1 RS for more than 300k Euros ...), 550 Maranello asking prices feel like they have more than doubled over winter. So I think if you can get good money, it is not unreasonable to assume that investing the money in an appreciating asset (house) is a good play for a few years.
Having said all that, I also rather have money in a car than in a house - and I get a lot more benefit out of a car than a slightly better house ...
MDL111 said:
It does looks like prices are continuing to go up as interest rates don't seem to be going up, but a GT3 or even an RS (996 RS and 4.0 RS excluded) is not a particularly rare car and once it is only up to collectors as opposed to speculators, I am not sure if prices will hold at these lofty levels. A bubble wrapped car with less than 5k km on the clock might continue to go up as that is what collectors will buy and sell at auctions as "investments", but "normal" mileage GT3 or RS might take a hit eventually. I don't think guys who drive (and even less so track) their cars will buy them at average prices of 200-300k euros, so that imo leaves the lofty prices for cars that are not used, but not for your average mileage GT car. Or maybe I am just poor and many car enthusiasts are a lot richer than I thought and therefore say 150-300k for a 911 weekend car is the new norm ...
I think you are kind of right, but what other weekend car with the same pedigree/durability/appeal? Part of me thinks, the 996GT3 in particular, will soon be eligible for all things historic, usually this rubs off on the Street cars. While the market move of late is totally bonkers, I still kind of see the fact that they will never make the Mezger again is a big thing...I see a lot of owners of all Porsche putting their car on the market to cash in on the current rises - the number of 997.1 GT3 for sale in the PH classifieds has risen sharply recently.
Prices of 997 GT3 could easily go either way at present, I could see them cooling off, I don't see them crashing and I don't expect them to go up much. The £70k+ Porsche market does seem to be flooded with new cars GT4, Spyder, 991 GT3, 991 GT3 RS so lots of options fighting for buyers money.
I note the OP's in Glasgow (I have a brother there), so not sure house prices are such a sure fire investment with the current political struggle going on north of the border. If a second independence referendum happened and Scotland became independent I could see house prices dipping as many businesses and their staff (Banks etc) would be forced to relocate south of the border.
Finding a good car can be tricky so sticking with his 997.1 GT3 (if he'll want another 997.1 GT3) would be sensible, unless the OP wants to try something else.
Plenty to weigh up, put sticking with it might be the best bet.
Prices of 997 GT3 could easily go either way at present, I could see them cooling off, I don't see them crashing and I don't expect them to go up much. The £70k+ Porsche market does seem to be flooded with new cars GT4, Spyder, 991 GT3, 991 GT3 RS so lots of options fighting for buyers money.
I note the OP's in Glasgow (I have a brother there), so not sure house prices are such a sure fire investment with the current political struggle going on north of the border. If a second independence referendum happened and Scotland became independent I could see house prices dipping as many businesses and their staff (Banks etc) would be forced to relocate south of the border.
Finding a good car can be tricky so sticking with his 997.1 GT3 (if he'll want another 997.1 GT3) would be sensible, unless the OP wants to try something else.
Plenty to weigh up, put sticking with it might be the best bet.
Well this is very relevant to me, in fact i put my 997.1 GT3 up for sale this week, and have had strong interest in the car but for the minute have withdrawn the ad.
My plan was to sell the GT3 buy something cheaper like a Cayman R or maybe even a 996 C4S and pay the mortgage off with the change, HOWEVER, I know that if I sell the GT3 i will never likely get another one, or a car of its calibre again (unless the arse fell out of the market, which i don't think it will).
The thing is, I really love my car, its in great condition, good colour ( Guards Red) and it thrills me every time I look at it, and driving it is beyond words, so selling it is purely about making a profit and nothing to do with wanting a change of car.
So yeah OP I feel you're pain, decisions decisions.....
My plan was to sell the GT3 buy something cheaper like a Cayman R or maybe even a 996 C4S and pay the mortgage off with the change, HOWEVER, I know that if I sell the GT3 i will never likely get another one, or a car of its calibre again (unless the arse fell out of the market, which i don't think it will).
The thing is, I really love my car, its in great condition, good colour ( Guards Red) and it thrills me every time I look at it, and driving it is beyond words, so selling it is purely about making a profit and nothing to do with wanting a change of car.
So yeah OP I feel you're pain, decisions decisions.....
Steviebeee said:
I've had it for four years and 25,000 glorious miles, but find myself using it less and less due to other cars I've acquired through the passage of time. I'm finding it TOO precious to leave anywhere, TOO harsh to use on many roads and now TOO valuable to use on track. So where do I use it? As it's turing out, on very few occasions.
The car has done a little over 5,000miles in 18months. I'm now thinking the money could now be used in other ways as I'm now viewing it as 'an appreciating asset' and for me thats inhibitive of using the car for what it was bought for. Enjoyment
To be honest, given the above if you aren't getting very much enjoyment out of the car you probably should sell it. If held as an investment as suggested (while doing ok now there are usually better/more liquid ones let's face it) you'll have to be pretty hard headed and not allow sentiment into any decision process when (not if) values start to turn.The car has done a little over 5,000miles in 18months. I'm now thinking the money could now be used in other ways as I'm now viewing it as 'an appreciating asset' and for me thats inhibitive of using the car for what it was bought for. Enjoyment
I would decide first if you want/are going to move house or if you are happy with your current home.
If you are going to move house and the funds make a tangible difference to what you buy, then get the car sold and move house.
Generally i think if prices continue to rise, the house will go up more. And if prices fall, the car will fall more.
There will always be a better car but property can get out of reach very quickly. I have a client who should have bought a house a few years ago, the houses he was looking at around the £500k mark are now touching £900k.
He has to settle now for a worse area and a smaller property for more money than the original £500k.
HTH
If you are going to move house and the funds make a tangible difference to what you buy, then get the car sold and move house.
Generally i think if prices continue to rise, the house will go up more. And if prices fall, the car will fall more.
There will always be a better car but property can get out of reach very quickly. I have a client who should have bought a house a few years ago, the houses he was looking at around the £500k mark are now touching £900k.
He has to settle now for a worse area and a smaller property for more money than the original £500k.
HTH
I guess it’s a rather nice position to be in, however I do understand your predicament.
I would put your GT3 up for Top money, see what happens and let that be your decider. If it’s meant to be and all that etc.
If you get top dollar, then keep some aside for a pure hooning “toy” that has not priced itself into this situation, then you most likely enjoy it more
I would put your GT3 up for Top money, see what happens and let that be your decider. If it’s meant to be and all that etc.
If you get top dollar, then keep some aside for a pure hooning “toy” that has not priced itself into this situation, then you most likely enjoy it more
MrTickle said:
This. In my opinion! I think we are approaching dizzying heights again for sought after cars, but the economy isn't exactly rock solid and stable at the moment, and any sudden change is going to have a faster effect on the car market than the house market.
If I was interested solely in the money - and not many of us on PH are - I would definitely be cashing in now.But what do I know? I sold a lovely GT3 and a mint 1970 2.2s before the market really took off
Guys,
Thank you all very much for the input. I recognise the market can go down as well as up, but since my interest began in 911s (2002ish) I can only ever remember prices falling in 2008 during the 'credit crunch'. Still, since 2002 isn't really that long in 911 world!
We've always looked at the car as a bit of a 'panic button', where if need be, we could cash it in. Selling it now would only be to fund another house which may well be slightly bigger and in another area. We haven't found 'the one' perhaps when we do, the decision will be made for us and the ad placed.
The what to replace it with question if the house thing doesn't pan out - that's a biggie. I honestly don't think there's anything at this price point that can deliver what this car does. Maybe an R8 V10? Maybe a Vantage V12? I don't know ....
Cars!! They consume you at times!!
Thank you all very much for the input. I recognise the market can go down as well as up, but since my interest began in 911s (2002ish) I can only ever remember prices falling in 2008 during the 'credit crunch'. Still, since 2002 isn't really that long in 911 world!
We've always looked at the car as a bit of a 'panic button', where if need be, we could cash it in. Selling it now would only be to fund another house which may well be slightly bigger and in another area. We haven't found 'the one' perhaps when we do, the decision will be made for us and the ad placed.
The what to replace it with question if the house thing doesn't pan out - that's a biggie. I honestly don't think there's anything at this price point that can deliver what this car does. Maybe an R8 V10? Maybe a Vantage V12? I don't know ....
Cars!! They consume you at times!!
fioran0 said:
I read the title first time round as "Monoball Gt3 or sell for..... better house?" and came in here expecting to see some ridiculously trick suspension only to be completely disorientated for a moment.
I hope its not going to be one of those days!!
feeling the Texan heat ?I hope its not going to be one of those days!!
There is only one serious answer to the OPs question. If selling the car makes a material difference to the home you can live in, then it simply should be sold and the experiences and memories chalked up as part of life's rich tapestry. And in the future there will be other avenues to pursue, cars and houses.
And DrMark. Stop beating yourself up and get a 991gt3 bought!
And DrMark. Stop beating yourself up and get a 991gt3 bought!
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