Play/side to side movement in front wheels on my Cayman S

[zed4]

Hello,

I've only picked up my Cayman on Saturday, but I've noticed that the steering is a little vague. I'm always correcting it and the car seems to be pulling from side to side.

I jacked the car up today and checked the front wheels and I've found loads of play in both of them. The play is between 9:00 and 3:00 o'clock, there's no play between 12:00 and 18:00 o'clock. It's in both wheels. There's also a clunk when driving over bumps.

What is the most likely cause of this? I didn't have time to investigate any further during my lunch break, but I can remove the wheels tonight to look a little closer. Is it likely to be a control arm(s), track rod end, wheel bearing or top strut mount?

I know I should have checked it when I bought the car, I just assumed the dealership would have checked that sort of thing for me! Hopefully I'll have no issues getting it sorted.

Dan

[Bennachie]

Trackrod ends.....

If they move that much you should be able to see/feel the relative movement

[zed4]

Bennachie said:

Trackrod ends.....

If they move that much you should be able to see/feel the relative movement

Are they common failures? Common for them to fail on both sides?

[zed4]

This video shows the movement (apologies for the lack of axle stands).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fIhASBqLAs

Edited by zed4 on Wednesday 6th May 19:51

[996TT02]

That's a whopping lot of movement.

First port of call check track rod ends, if they are fine but still steering related could be the rack inner BJs.

Other than that, needs investigation, could be many things.

If any of the above get sorted asap as they are very dangerously worn and a knock could potentially break one leaving you with independent front steering...

[zed4]

996TT02 said:

That's a whopping lot of movement.

First port of call check track rod ends, if they are fine but still steering related could be the rack inner BJs.

Other than that, needs investigation, could be many things.

If any of the above get sorted asap as they are very dangerously worn and a knock could potentially break one leaving you with independent front steering...

It sure is! I was amazed. I won’t be driving it anymore, I’ll stick it in the garage and bring the TVR into work instead. Shame really.

I’ll check the track rod ends tonight and report back.

The warranty is with Autoguard and they use Halfords Autocentres, but I may see if I can use a Porsche specialist instead.

[zed4]

I had a look at it tonight but couldn't figure out what was broken. I think the the driver's side, I think the passenger side is ok, it's just the movement on the driver's side transferring though. It's difficult to pinpoint it on my own, I can't wiggle the wheel and look under the car at the same time!

[Diablos-666]

I had something similar happen to my my old 993.

It turned out to be a loose centre wheel nut.

Maybe check that too?

[zed4]

Yep, wheels have been off and back on and bolted up. In the above videos the steering lock was on so it does look worse than it is. I'll do another video with the steering lock off.

[Diablos-666]

Any update on this?

[zed4]

Diablos-666 said:

Any update on this?

I dropped it off at a garage today for them to check over. They specialise in Porsches so hopefully they know what they're doing! I'm hoping it will be covered by the warranty company, so I don't have the hassle of dealing with the supplying dealer.

[thegoose]

It's not an issue for the warranty company if the car was supplied like that. The warranty is to cover sudden and unexpected failure of items, not wear and tear (which it sounds like this is) or faults that were already there when the car was supplied and put on warranty cover. Once you've had it diagnosed speak to the dealer before authorising anything if you want a contribution towards the ill.

[zed4]

thegoose said:

It's not an issue for the warranty company if the car was supplied like that. The warranty is to cover sudden and unexpected failure of items, not wear and tear (which it sounds like this is) or faults that were already there when the car was supplied and put on warranty cover. Once you've had it diagnosed speak to the dealer before authorising anything if you want a contribution towards the ill.

Yes, I understand what you're saying. It seemed to be ok on the test drive and for a few days after I bought it. It seemed to drive very differently all of a sudden, like something failed on the car. But I might be wrong. Will see what the garage find out.

[Ian_UK1]

996TT02 said:

That's a whopping lot of movement.

First port of call check track rod ends, if they are fine but still steering related could be the rack inner BJs.

Other than that, needs investigation, could be many things.

If any of the above get sorted asap as they are very dangerously worn and a knock could potentially break one leaving you with independent front steering...

This ^^^^

To the OP - trackrod ends on 987/997 cars are virtually a consumable. They're absolute crap from the factory (made by TRW out of recycled coke cans with a dry lubricant in the joint - horrible). Rack ends are also susceptible to wear, but it tends not to be so severe. Did I mention that the steering racks are also absolute crap from the factory (guess what - made by TRW out of recycled coke cans!) and are prone to play in both the rack support bearings and pinion bearings. The perfect example is my 997.2: on its 3rd steering rack at only 50,000 miles.

Other items that can cause play in the front are control arm ball joints (guess who makes the control arms) play in the centre oil-filled bushes in the control arms (but this is typically fore/aft play not 'steering wobble') play in the strut tops (made by...?!) and play in the damper rods causing the struts 'bend'.

My serious recommendation would be to book the car in with Chris Franklin at Center Gravity to have the suspension& steering properly diagnosed and overhauled. Going to someone who really knows what they're doing is of paramount importance here. An added bonus of going to CG is that Chris will also set the car up for maximum fun and/or to your preferences and driving style.

HTH. Ian

[zed4]

Ian_UK1 said:

This ^^^^

To the OP - trackrod ends on 987/997 cars are virtually a consumable. They're absolute crap from the factory (made by TRW out of recycled coke cans with a dry lubricant in the joint - horrible). Rack ends are also susceptible to wear, but it tends not to be so severe. Did I mention that the steering racks are also absolute crap from the factory (guess what - made by TRW out of recycled coke cans!) and are prone to play in both the rack support bearings and pinion bearings. The perfect example is my 997.2: on its 3rd steering rack at only 50,000 miles.

Other items that can cause play in the front are control arm ball joints (guess who makes the control arms) play in the centre oil-filled bushes in the control arms (but this is typically fore/aft play not 'steering wobble') play in the strut tops (made by...?!) and play in the damper rods causing the struts 'bend'.

My serious recommendation would be to book the car in with Chris Franklin at Center Gravity to have the suspension& steering properly diagnosed and overhauled. Going to someone who really knows what they're doing is of paramount importance here. An added bonus of going to CG is that Chris will also set the car up for maximum fun and/or to your preferences and driving style.

HTH. Ian

Thanks for the advice. It sums up everything I've read online over the last few days.

I've already dropped the car in at a garage and they're having a look at it for me now. I'm sure they can diagnose what's worn as they do specialise in Porsches. I've had a look at the suspension, and it's not really very complex and pretty easy to get at.

The place you recommend looks good, but they're a long way from me. They look very impressive, but I get the feeling they're very expensive with it!

[Ian_UK1]

zed4 said:

Thanks for the advice. It sums up everything I've read online over the last few days.

I've already dropped the car in at a garage and they're having a look at it for me now. I'm sure they can diagnose what's worn as they do specialise in Porsches. I've had a look at the suspension, and it's not really very complex and pretty easy to get at.

The place you recommend looks good, but they're a long way from me. They look very impressive, but I get the feeling they're very expensive with it!

The basic front suspension design is quite straightforward, yes, and if the culprit is track rod end(s) it's also a simple fix. Bear in mind that the replacement of any steering or suspension parts will require that you have a full 4-wheel alignment done afterwards - you can't just get away with counting the number of turns on the thread on a Porsche!

Whether you'd regard Center Gravity as expensive depends on what you want from your car. If it's just to get it back together and 'in-spec' (which is quite a broad range) then how Chris operates would probably be overkill. If you want to make sure every component in the suspension is in tip-top condition and have the car's suspension 'tuned' (I hate that word) to work exactly how you require, then the cost suddenly becomes very reasonable indeed for what you get.

Typically a visit to CG will involve the following: a) Full visual diagnosis of your car's suspension and tyres to identify potential issues. b) Full test drive on several different road types to assess the car's behaviour and identify anything unusual. c) Full discussion about what Chris has found, how you use/drive the car and what you're looking to achieve. d) Suspension strip-down as necessary - including steering gear if that's where issues lie. e) Replacement of any worn parts and/or replacement of suspension parts with upgraded parts if you're looking to modify the car. f) Full 4-wheel alignment with settings optimised for your driving style/expectations/requirements. g) Road test by Chris to verify everything is now working correctly. h) Road test by you to make sure the car is doing what you want. i) Back on the aligner if anything needs to be changed. j) Back on the road to re-test. k) Repeat g) h) i) & j) as necessary until you're happy.

I can promise you that the difference between 'somewhere in the green on the aligner' and having every setting fully-optimised is absolutely huge. To properly get your car optimised, a full session at CG, especially when a few parts need replacing, can be anything up to 12 hours - so you really do get what you pay for.

As many people on here will confirm, being a long way from CG is actually a great big positive - once the car's done, you'll be driving home with a great big silly grin all over your face because your car's now amazing! A short drive is the very last thing you'll want.

[zed4]

Yes, understand what you're saying. I'm no stranger to car setup, I've just rebuilt every part of my TVR suspension, every wishbone removed, blasted and zinc coated. Every bush replaced with Powerflex, and every ball joint and track rod end has been replaced with new parts regardless of how worn they were. I then had the car set up and corner weighted at Neil Garner. It's fantastic now.

With regards to the Porsche, the garage have told me it's the track rod, not the track rod end that has failed. Probably explains why I couldn't find anything wrong when I looked as I wasn't looking that far in.

[zed4]

Seems it was the track rod and the lower ball joint on the bottom control arm. Both had excessive play. Now £450 poorer Not the best start to Porsche ownership! Let's hope for more success from now on!