I want to buy a TVR. Anybody care to answer some newb q's?
Discussion
Hello.
I currently drive a 370Z and I've always fancied a TVR, ever since DonnyMac first took me out in his pink Cerbera. My favourite traits about a car are definitely the sound, the sensation of speed - and a sense of occasion whenever you drive it anywhere. Pops and bangs are the icing on the cake.
I'm sure plenty of people have asked these questions in the past, I've googled the majority of my answered questions but please bear with me - any advice well appreciated:
Thanks in advance.
P.S. - I assume most TVRs are very loud and will bring an instant smile whenever you fire them up and they announce to the local borough that they're running.
I currently drive a 370Z and I've always fancied a TVR, ever since DonnyMac first took me out in his pink Cerbera. My favourite traits about a car are definitely the sound, the sensation of speed - and a sense of occasion whenever you drive it anywhere. Pops and bangs are the icing on the cake.
I'm sure plenty of people have asked these questions in the past, I've googled the majority of my answered questions but please bear with me - any advice well appreciated:
- I've got ~£10k to spend on top of part ex for my Nissan. I'm looking at a couple of cars from Shmoo - I've read one or two messages that paint the company in a positive way (no negative messages) but was curious as to whether it's worth a trip down to see the cars. There's a pair of T350s, a Tuscan and a Cerb that I quite like the look of and are in price range. I understand str8six have a fantastic reputation but the cars in their stocklist are a little too old for me, purely because anything I buy has to be 1998 onwards as I'd want to put my private reg on the car.
- I've always used the rule that a slosh fund should be about 10% of the car's original purchase price per year. Is this still the case with TVRs - even if I have to delve into that fund more often to fix little niggles?
- I'm a short bloke with stumpy little legs, is a TVR okay for those who are vertically challenged? I'm 5'6". A lot of sports cars have noses that drop away from you so I'm not too concerned about that, my main concern is being able to get a decent balance between a good driving position for the steering wheel and having adequate foot reach for the pedals, particularly given the long throttle travel on TVRs.
- While I'm not too fussed as my new TVR will be a third car, how are TVRs on long distances? I'm not fussed about mpg, I assume I'd get mid-teens around town and low 20s on the motorway, I'm more interested in the noise in the cabin on a 70mph cruise. My MX-5 is pretty loud in the cabin so I'm not expecting Mercedes levels of comfort, just wanted to know if I could do a 280 mile motorway journey on a single tank and without perforating my ear drums.
- Reliability's always a tiresome TVR subject but I read a few messages and have heard a few opinions from (trusted) petrolheads saying that TVRs need to be driven semi-regularly (i.e. once a week) to keep everything in order. I'd be driving it once every fortnight/three weeks normally, with the odd hoon here and there and a lengthy trip once every two or three months. Apart from investing in a trickle charger, is there anything else I need to bear in mind?
- How much work can be done at home to fix the cars, assuming you've only got basic household car maintenance equipment, and how much of it needs general garage/specialist attention? I have a local garage I trust with all my cars, I'd trust them to do a good job on a TVR too but I don't know if the car would need a specialist to look over it instead.
- What is the handling like day-to-day, and when you're driving at 6/10ths? Are the cars quite nervous under load, and what are they like on a twisty B-road?
- What's visibility like for parking/narrow-road driving?
Thanks in advance.
P.S. - I assume most TVRs are very loud and will bring an instant smile whenever you fire them up and they announce to the local borough that they're running.
Hi Seb
I can't answer all your questions but for starters I am only 5 foot 6 and have very short legs but have never had a problem getting comfortable in any of my TVR's ( S2, V8S, Griff 500, 3 x Tuscans and a Sagaris so it shouldn't be a problem. The pedal boxes are adjustable on the T cars so should help, can't remember if the same is true of the Cerb.
They have no trouble doing long journeys, trips to France, Italy etc are a joy. Mark one tuscans can feel a little jittery on the road as they have a very quick steering rack but there are a couple of mods which can help. T350s are lovely handling cars so long as the geo has been set up.
Your best bet is to go out and try and see what you like.
They have a poor reputation for reliability but if they are used and maintained well they aren't that bad at all.
I have seen more recovery trucks and RAC men in 2 years away from TVR ownership than I did in the 20 plus years that I had my TVRs for.
I can't answer all your questions but for starters I am only 5 foot 6 and have very short legs but have never had a problem getting comfortable in any of my TVR's ( S2, V8S, Griff 500, 3 x Tuscans and a Sagaris so it shouldn't be a problem. The pedal boxes are adjustable on the T cars so should help, can't remember if the same is true of the Cerb.
They have no trouble doing long journeys, trips to France, Italy etc are a joy. Mark one tuscans can feel a little jittery on the road as they have a very quick steering rack but there are a couple of mods which can help. T350s are lovely handling cars so long as the geo has been set up.
Your best bet is to go out and try and see what you like.
They have a poor reputation for reliability but if they are used and maintained well they aren't that bad at all.
I have seen more recovery trucks and RAC men in 2 years away from TVR ownership than I did in the 20 plus years that I had my TVRs for.
Thanks for the info Kevin. Glad to hear height isn't an issue, in all honesty my Nissan doesn't suit short people as the wing mirrors tend to block your view of entries/exits at roundabouts - but then again they're huge on the Z.
My honest opinion was, that a TVR that's older than 05/06 would have had the majority of issues sorted out by now and replaced with more reliable aftermarket parts. Not being a TVR owner, I somewhat get the feeling that the cars get occasional gremlins, owners post up to find the best solution since there's a great community between TVR owners, and the odd non-petrolhead sees all these issues and runs wild saying the cars fall apart every 10 minutes etc. I know they're not Nissan Micras, I expect if they're looked after they'll just do what any sports car does by throwing the odd paddy here and there.
My honest opinion was, that a TVR that's older than 05/06 would have had the majority of issues sorted out by now and replaced with more reliable aftermarket parts. Not being a TVR owner, I somewhat get the feeling that the cars get occasional gremlins, owners post up to find the best solution since there's a great community between TVR owners, and the odd non-petrolhead sees all these issues and runs wild saying the cars fall apart every 10 minutes etc. I know they're not Nissan Micras, I expect if they're looked after they'll just do what any sports car does by throwing the odd paddy here and there.
Having never had a T car this is largely based on what I have learnt from talking to others, and my experience of owning an S3 and Chimaera.
The T generation cars with the AJP V8 and Speed 6 engines are typically slightly more expensive to run than the Rover V8 based cars. The simple fact is that they were built and designed as more of a race/performance car with engine/brakes etc to match. Taking the urban myths about TVR build quality/design/reliability out of the equation does not change the fact the bits are just more expensive and often require specialists to work on the cars if you want the job done properly and cannot do it yourself. The bits for the Rover V8 based cars are generally cheaper, slightly easier to get hold of, and as the basics of the car are more mainstream means that more people can work of the cars giving you more choice, potentially away from the big TVR specialist to work on the car.
TVR are hand built cars, with a unique character. There are rarely two identical cars, and I suspect almost every car was a work in progress development/evolution as it left the factory. That said, by now most of the major issues and small niggles will have been resolved on the majority of TVRs available to buy.
As long as you keep on top of the maintenance of the car, they are reliable considering that some are getting on a bit now and are specialist sports cars. I had an S3 for two years that never let me down once. Just got a Chimaera 500 and it needs a little bit of TLC and a few niggles resolving, but nothing major.
If you start asking about most of the well known TVR garages and dealers, you will no doubt get good and bad stories about all of them. People will have very different expectations and therefore different perceptions of quality/affordability/reliability etc even if the work carried out or car supplied is identical. You only have to look at cars advertised as 'perfect' by private sellers to understand the range of expectations. To be honest I suspect that the big places such as Str8Six, Bespoke Performance, PPC, James Agger, Central TVR, Fernhursts, Powers Performance, Racing Green etc etc are all generally ok. TVR is a very niche market and they simply cannot afford to get it wrong too often and stay in business.
The best thing you could do is get yourself along to you local TVR Car Club monthly meeting http://www.tvr-car-club.co.uk/your_region.asp and have a chat to some owners, try and blag a few passenger rides and narrow your choice down, then start looking for the best one you can afford. You could always also visit one of the dealers who has a few different models in stock and have a few test drives.
Good luck in your search.
The T generation cars with the AJP V8 and Speed 6 engines are typically slightly more expensive to run than the Rover V8 based cars. The simple fact is that they were built and designed as more of a race/performance car with engine/brakes etc to match. Taking the urban myths about TVR build quality/design/reliability out of the equation does not change the fact the bits are just more expensive and often require specialists to work on the cars if you want the job done properly and cannot do it yourself. The bits for the Rover V8 based cars are generally cheaper, slightly easier to get hold of, and as the basics of the car are more mainstream means that more people can work of the cars giving you more choice, potentially away from the big TVR specialist to work on the car.
TVR are hand built cars, with a unique character. There are rarely two identical cars, and I suspect almost every car was a work in progress development/evolution as it left the factory. That said, by now most of the major issues and small niggles will have been resolved on the majority of TVRs available to buy.
As long as you keep on top of the maintenance of the car, they are reliable considering that some are getting on a bit now and are specialist sports cars. I had an S3 for two years that never let me down once. Just got a Chimaera 500 and it needs a little bit of TLC and a few niggles resolving, but nothing major.
If you start asking about most of the well known TVR garages and dealers, you will no doubt get good and bad stories about all of them. People will have very different expectations and therefore different perceptions of quality/affordability/reliability etc even if the work carried out or car supplied is identical. You only have to look at cars advertised as 'perfect' by private sellers to understand the range of expectations. To be honest I suspect that the big places such as Str8Six, Bespoke Performance, PPC, James Agger, Central TVR, Fernhursts, Powers Performance, Racing Green etc etc are all generally ok. TVR is a very niche market and they simply cannot afford to get it wrong too often and stay in business.
The best thing you could do is get yourself along to you local TVR Car Club monthly meeting http://www.tvr-car-club.co.uk/your_region.asp and have a chat to some owners, try and blag a few passenger rides and narrow your choice down, then start looking for the best one you can afford. You could always also visit one of the dealers who has a few different models in stock and have a few test drives.
Good luck in your search.
A Wedge man myself. £10k would get you a rare 350SE which is a 3.9l V8. Bit of a marmite shape but obviously I love them. Dead easy mechanics, should be well sorted for that money, 5'4" wife drives Wedge no issues, V8 noise cannot be beaten in my opinion by a straight 6, although I ran a highly modified (180bhp) TR6 for 16 years previously. Massive plus for me is that if a Wedge V8 goes bang then a replacement runner can be bought for a few hundred pounds but the speed six is thousands which would frighten me.
sebhaque said:
My honest opinion was, that a TVR that's older than 05/06 would have had the majority of issues sorted out by now and replaced with more reliable aftermarket parts. Not being a TVR owner, I somewhat get the feeling that the cars get occasional gremlins, owners post up to find the best solution since there's a great community between TVR owners, and the odd non-petrolhead sees all these issues and runs wild saying the cars fall apart every 10 minutes etc. I know they're not Nissan Micras, I expect if they're looked after they'll just do what any sports car does by throwing the odd paddy here and there.
You're pretty much spot on with your impression there... As I have said many time before, I have had 2 TVR's over the past 7 years and in that time I have had one break down which was a new starter motor needed. In that time I have gone through many "modern" day cars including 4 volvox, 3 of which had major faults including, DMF, cracked cylinder head, and engine blow up.
Yes these were used more than the TVR, but the TVR only failed me the once.
These forums are fantastic for help and advice, and there is no other manufacturer that I've come across that has this tool. Problem from it is, that we only post problems, tens of thousands of miles in TVR ownership goes by and nobody posts this.
Saying that, they are not your typical modern euro box and they WILL have there problems, but they are far far more reliable than they are given credit for.
Yes these were used more than the TVR, but the TVR only failed me the once.
These forums are fantastic for help and advice, and there is no other manufacturer that I've come across that has this tool. Problem from it is, that we only post problems, tens of thousands of miles in TVR ownership goes by and nobody posts this.
Saying that, they are not your typical modern euro box and they WILL have there problems, but they are far far more reliable than they are given credit for.
You need to go and drive them.
Make sure you find the Speed 6 floor hinged pedals comfortable, including sitting with the clutch fully down. I am well stricken in years, but find them difficult.
A good example of a late Chimaera or Griffith is also in your budget. Don't dismiss them until you have tried them. A half cover solves your outdoor living issues.
Make sure you find the Speed 6 floor hinged pedals comfortable, including sitting with the clutch fully down. I am well stricken in years, but find them difficult.
A good example of a late Chimaera or Griffith is also in your budget. Don't dismiss them until you have tried them. A half cover solves your outdoor living issues.
sebhaque said:
I'm a short bloke with stumpy little legs, is a TVR okay for those who are vertically challenged? I'm 5'6". A lot of sports cars have noses that drop away from you so I'm not too concerned about that, my main concern is being able to get a decent balance between a good driving position for the steering wheel and having adequate foot reach for the pedals, particularly given the long throttle travel on TVRs.
You need to try the cars for fit, you are around the same height as my wife who also has short legs and she is unable to comfortably reach the pedals in the Cerbera even at full adjustment. The Cerbera does not have an adjustable pedal box although there is individual adjustment on the clutch and brake pedals. There is also an adjustable throttle pedal available I believe, but it is not a standard fitmentHi Seb. I've been in a similar position to you. The short answer to your questions is to visit and talk to a few dealerships to understand the pros and cons of the various models and also make sure you drive the ones you are interested in.
When I started my search I thought I'd narrowed the model list down to a Tuscan, T-350 and Griffith (in that order). First off I visited Str8Six to test a Tuscan. It is a beautiful looking car but unfortunately on driving it, it wasn't for me. I should point out that I am 6 foot 4 so my experience will in most cases be the reverse to yours. When I first started driving the Tuscan I struggled with the pedals as they come up from the floor rather than coming down from above. It may be that my feet are on the large side or maybe it was just awkward for me, but I found the pedals difficult to use, particularly the brake.
The 2nd issue I had was the head room, with the roof off it was fine, but on it was a little cramped. You can remove the cushion from the seat so you can sit lower, but the pedals alone were probably enough to put me off. The final things that put me off were the driving view (I actually found the bonnet a bit ugly from the driver's view) and the steering wheel/dash. This seems ahead of its time with the amount of data you can display, but the price of this is something like 6 circuit boards. Given the reliability reputation of the TVR, this put me off.
The T-350 was basically a non starter due to my height so that was ruled out just by sitting in it.
Next I went to Fernhurst to test a Cerbera. This offered a much better driving position (and normal pedals!) than the Tuscan, but as I understand it, the least reliable electronics. As parts aren't simply obtainable, an issue with the electronics in the boot could lead to a 3 week wait whilst the parts are sent off for repair. I'm also lead to believe that parts wise, this is one of the most expensive TVRs so the reliability and long term cost let me rule this out.
Whilst at Fernhurst I noticed a purple Griffith and although I hadn't gone there to test this, gave this a drive too. This is much more basic, has very few electronic gizmos to go wrong and a tried and trusted Rover V8 engine which is much more reliable than TVR's own engines that appear in other cars (just check the cars for sale and see how many have had engine rebuilds at fairly low mileage, clearly you will need to look for one that has been rebuilt if considering a different model).
I drove the Griffith for about 20-30 mins but due to the seat, ended up with a bit of back ache in my upper back so unfortunately, this car also was ruled out.
However.....
After some more reading I discovered that in the last 100 Griffiths made, seats were used from the Cerbera and I noticed one of these for sale at Bespoke Performance. After a 20 min drive in this the seat is much better so deposit was paid and I hope to be picking up in a couple of weeks (a few cosmetic items to be tidied up first).
As mentioned in my opening paragraph, do your research and test drives to make sure you get the right TVR for you.
When I started my search I thought I'd narrowed the model list down to a Tuscan, T-350 and Griffith (in that order). First off I visited Str8Six to test a Tuscan. It is a beautiful looking car but unfortunately on driving it, it wasn't for me. I should point out that I am 6 foot 4 so my experience will in most cases be the reverse to yours. When I first started driving the Tuscan I struggled with the pedals as they come up from the floor rather than coming down from above. It may be that my feet are on the large side or maybe it was just awkward for me, but I found the pedals difficult to use, particularly the brake.
The 2nd issue I had was the head room, with the roof off it was fine, but on it was a little cramped. You can remove the cushion from the seat so you can sit lower, but the pedals alone were probably enough to put me off. The final things that put me off were the driving view (I actually found the bonnet a bit ugly from the driver's view) and the steering wheel/dash. This seems ahead of its time with the amount of data you can display, but the price of this is something like 6 circuit boards. Given the reliability reputation of the TVR, this put me off.
The T-350 was basically a non starter due to my height so that was ruled out just by sitting in it.
Next I went to Fernhurst to test a Cerbera. This offered a much better driving position (and normal pedals!) than the Tuscan, but as I understand it, the least reliable electronics. As parts aren't simply obtainable, an issue with the electronics in the boot could lead to a 3 week wait whilst the parts are sent off for repair. I'm also lead to believe that parts wise, this is one of the most expensive TVRs so the reliability and long term cost let me rule this out.
Whilst at Fernhurst I noticed a purple Griffith and although I hadn't gone there to test this, gave this a drive too. This is much more basic, has very few electronic gizmos to go wrong and a tried and trusted Rover V8 engine which is much more reliable than TVR's own engines that appear in other cars (just check the cars for sale and see how many have had engine rebuilds at fairly low mileage, clearly you will need to look for one that has been rebuilt if considering a different model).
I drove the Griffith for about 20-30 mins but due to the seat, ended up with a bit of back ache in my upper back so unfortunately, this car also was ruled out.
However.....
After some more reading I discovered that in the last 100 Griffiths made, seats were used from the Cerbera and I noticed one of these for sale at Bespoke Performance. After a 20 min drive in this the seat is much better so deposit was paid and I hope to be picking up in a couple of weeks (a few cosmetic items to be tidied up first).
As mentioned in my opening paragraph, do your research and test drives to make sure you get the right TVR for you.
My 2p worth is as follows;-
Yes, most pre-2005,2006 cars will have been sorted but then, the 2005 and 2006 cars came out of the factory in better shape than the previous cars.
The things that generally need sorting on the T cars are the geometry and maybe shocks uprade, bump steer (depending on model) and speedsix engine.
The earlier engines had some poor quality components which, by ca 2004 had been sorted out by both TVR themselves and a number of the independent specialist.
End result being that post 2004 cars out of the factory 'generally' have good engines and that rebuilds, while quite expensive are very good with good life expectancy (100k miles)
Tamora, T350 and Sagaris are normally labelled as best handling with the Tuscan needing a little more work to get it right.
I drive down to Spain in my Tuscan every year. Powertech cans and decatted but I manage. Certainly minimizes conversation with my Wife on the way down
Please note that we are trying to keep secret the fact that they are, in general, very reliable cars.
As mentioned, the peddlebox is adjustable as is the steering wheel. (I think).
I absolutely love the RV8 sound but the Speedsix makes a lovely howl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYQKHZ06oRM
Yes, most pre-2005,2006 cars will have been sorted but then, the 2005 and 2006 cars came out of the factory in better shape than the previous cars.
The things that generally need sorting on the T cars are the geometry and maybe shocks uprade, bump steer (depending on model) and speedsix engine.
The earlier engines had some poor quality components which, by ca 2004 had been sorted out by both TVR themselves and a number of the independent specialist.
End result being that post 2004 cars out of the factory 'generally' have good engines and that rebuilds, while quite expensive are very good with good life expectancy (100k miles)
Tamora, T350 and Sagaris are normally labelled as best handling with the Tuscan needing a little more work to get it right.
I drive down to Spain in my Tuscan every year. Powertech cans and decatted but I manage. Certainly minimizes conversation with my Wife on the way down
Please note that we are trying to keep secret the fact that they are, in general, very reliable cars.
As mentioned, the peddlebox is adjustable as is the steering wheel. (I think).
I absolutely love the RV8 sound but the Speedsix makes a lovely howl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYQKHZ06oRM
Edited by so called on Friday 8th May 11:22
Edited by so called on Friday 8th May 11:23
I purchased a Mk1 Tuscan from Schmoo about 2 1/2 years ago. Dealt with Ross Griffin, nice bloke, honest and a pleasure to deal with.
It's an older model (2000) with a 4.3L upgrade, nitrons etc, drives superb. It's really comfortable and last summer did a 3,000 mile round trip through Europe lasting 8 days, so plenty of driving every day, without any issues.
I get it regularly serviced by Str8Six and it hasn't skipped a beat in all the time I've had it. I think the key is to have it looked after properly. I usually ask Str8Six to check it over at service time and do what needs doing - but to be fair, hasn't needed much...
It's an older model (2000) with a 4.3L upgrade, nitrons etc, drives superb. It's really comfortable and last summer did a 3,000 mile round trip through Europe lasting 8 days, so plenty of driving every day, without any issues.
I get it regularly serviced by Str8Six and it hasn't skipped a beat in all the time I've had it. I think the key is to have it looked after properly. I usually ask Str8Six to check it over at service time and do what needs doing - but to be fair, hasn't needed much...
I bought a 2006 T350C from Tony Gilbert's in Warwickshire - great car great dealer experience too.
He has a good range of V8's and T cars and also takes in P/X's and offers a fair price.
He will be more than happy to let you try a few different cars but i would phone first to let him know if you are going to his place.
Go on his web site and have a brows.
He has a good range of V8's and T cars and also takes in P/X's and offers a fair price.
He will be more than happy to let you try a few different cars but i would phone first to let him know if you are going to his place.
Go on his web site and have a brows.
As I have said many time before, I have had 2 TVR's over the past 7 years and in that time I have had one break down which was a new starter motor needed. In that time I have gone through many "modern" day cars including 4 volvox, 3 of which had major faults including, DMF, cracked cylinder head, and engine blow up.
Yes these were used more than the TVR, but the TVR only failed me the once.
These forums are fantastic for help and advice, and there is no other manufacturer that I've come across that has this tool. Problem from it is, that we only post problems, tens of thousands of miles in TVR ownership goes by and nobody posts this.
Saying that, they are not your typical modern euro box and they WILL have there problems, but they are far far more reliable than they are given credit for.
Yes these were used more than the TVR, but the TVR only failed me the once.
These forums are fantastic for help and advice, and there is no other manufacturer that I've come across that has this tool. Problem from it is, that we only post problems, tens of thousands of miles in TVR ownership goes by and nobody posts this.
Saying that, they are not your typical modern euro box and they WILL have there problems, but they are far far more reliable than they are given credit for.
You guys are a bad influence.
I pick it up in about two weeks, the car needs a bit of touching up done (paintwork/wheels and some little niggles!) and I'm getting a JP exhaust put on it as the standard one's awfully quiet. These next few weeks are going to take forever to pass by.
To the chap I met at the petrol station with the blue Chim -
I'll be sure to follow up once I've picked my T350C up.
I pick it up in about two weeks, the car needs a bit of touching up done (paintwork/wheels and some little niggles!) and I'm getting a JP exhaust put on it as the standard one's awfully quiet. These next few weeks are going to take forever to pass by.
To the chap I met at the petrol station with the blue Chim -
I'll be sure to follow up once I've picked my T350C up.Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff