Tightening up the front of a monaro

[KMud]

General question as I'm a bit dim on suspension, what are the most important aspects to tightening up the turn-in? I know the monaro has a bit of a numb spot around the centre, but I'm noticing it more since relocating the battery...I guess taking 20kg off the nose/front wheels is significant! I realise many modified monaros are rocking increased (+50kg?) nose-weight with their blowers, not sure to what extent that colours the general advice.

I've got most of the front poly-bushed, I just neglected to fit the poly ARB bushes - are these likely to make much difference? I'm guessing they might, since it feels like the weight is transferring more to the outside wheel than before. I don't really want to fit a thicker front ARB for a few reasons (cost, difficulty to install, more understeer), but would consider it if it makes a massive difference to turn-in/feel.

I'm lowered on King springs - they're stiffer than Pedders low I believe. Dampers are recent and OE. Geometry has been done recently.

A quick rack will happen at some point. I only have the diff bush poly'd at the back, would the rear subframe mounts make much difference?

Bare in mind I'm talking feel more than ability - I'm not claiming to be pushing the dynamic limits of the car.

[ARAF]

Get the geometry reset to fast road. Don't ask me what the figures are, as I don't know - but I do know that the steering will feel less vague and give you that initial 'bite' into the tarmac, which I think is what you're after.

[KMud]

Not expensive enough, does not compute

[ARAF]

KMud said:

Not expensive enough, does not compute

Also, have you tried playing with the tyre pressures - or even checked them? Even cheaper!

[KMud]

ARAF said:

Also, have you tried playing with the tyre pressures - or even checked them? Even cheaper!

I tend to use 34-36 psi (standard CV8 18" sized tyres). Checked very regularly.

[VinceM]

ARAF said:

Get the geometry reset to fast road. Don't ask me what the figures are, as I don't know - but I do know that the steering will feel less vague and give you that initial 'bite' into the tarmac, which I think is what you're after.

What does this involve - more neg camber??? Downside is extra tyre wear...????

[ARAF]

VinceM said:

ARAF said:

Get the geometry reset to fast road. Don't ask me what the figures are, as I don't know - but I do know that the steering will feel less vague and give you that initial 'bite' into the tarmac, which I think is what you're after.

What does this involve - more neg camber??? Downside is extra tyre wear...????

Start by seeing how far away from standard the current readings are. Camber will help grip when you're in the corner, but IIRC it's Caster and Toe that affect initial turn in, though all three will make the car oversteer more.

[MyM8V8]

KMud said:

General question as I'm a bit dim on suspension, what are the most important aspects to tightening up the turn-in? I know the monaro has a bit of a numb spot around the centre, but I'm noticing it more since relocating the battery...I guess taking 20kg off the nose/front wheels is significant! I realise many modified monaros are rocking increased (+50kg?) nose-weight with their blowers, not sure to what extent that colours the general advice.

I've got most of the front poly-bushed, I just neglected to fit the poly ARB bushes - are these likely to make much difference? I'm guessing they might, since it feels like the weight is transferring more to the outside wheel than before. I don't really want to fit a thicker front ARB for a few reasons (cost, difficulty to install, more understeer), but would consider it if it makes a massive difference to turn-in/feel.

I'm lowered on King springs - they're stiffer than Pedders low I believe. Dampers are recent and OE. Geometry has been done recently.

A quick rack will happen at some point. I only have the diff bush poly'd at the back, would the rear subframe mounts make much difference?

Bare in mind I'm talking feel more than ability - I'm not claiming to be pushing the dynamic limits of the car.

Whatever you do to each end of the car will affect the other. Definitely poly bush the rear end. Doing the sub frame mounts will also help with tramp.

The stiffer front springs could well be exacerbating the under steer. You may want to try your softer OE ones again for comparison.

Edited by MyM8V8 on Sunday 10th May 23:50

[monkfish1]

MyM8V8 said:

The stiffer front springs could well be exacerbating the under steer. You may want to try your softer OE ones again for comparison.

Edited by MyM8V8 on Sunday 10th May 23:50

This ^^^^

[KMud]

Hmm, gasser stance

I need to do some more driving, I'm not sure I'd call it straight understeer, it may be increased roll (which can increase the ability to turn - correct?). I definitely think it feels more 'floaty', and I think Sturdy agrees that his feels 'floatier' too post battery relocation. Of course my memory of how it drove before is quickly evaporating, and I'm not saying it drove better before, just that I want it to turn in better now.

[SturdyHSV]

KMud said:

Hmm, gasser stance

I need to do some more driving, I'm not sure I'd call it straight understeer, it may be increased roll (which can increase the ability to turn - correct?). I definitely think it feels more 'floaty', and I think Sturdy agrees that his feels 'floatier' too post battery relocation. Of course my memory of how it drove before is quickly evaporating, and I'm not saying it drove better before, just that I want it to turn in better now.

I'd say the snout felt lighter after shifting the weight off the nose. The best improvement I've had for the floaty feeling was the Pedders dampers, it suddenly felt as if the body and the wheels stayed part of the same car when things get 'interesting' over bumps, crests, series of corners etc.

But they replaced completely worn out stock ones, so not a fair comparison really...

It's hard as it's very subjective, it's biased by the "I've just spent money, I'm sure I can feel a difference" and you're often replacing a worn out OE part with a brand new aftermarket one... And as you said, your memory of how it used to drive quickly fades!

[KMud]

...not to mention the family shed has changed from a Nissan X-trail to a Subaru Legacy...so my day-to-day reference has tightened up rather!

[SturdyHSV]

KMud said:

...not to mention the family shed has changed from a Nissan X-trail to a Subaru Legacy...so my day-to-day reference has tightened up rather!

So actually the cheapest way to tighten up the feel of a Monaro is to buy a 30 year old saloon of french origin as a daily?

[KMud]

SturdyHSV said:

So actually the cheapest way to tighten up the feel of a Monaro is to buy a 30 year old saloon of french origin as a daily?

That should work!

[monkfish1]

KMud said:

Hmm, gasser stance

I need to do some more driving, I'm not sure I'd call it straight understeer, it may be increased roll (which can increase the ability to turn - correct?). I definitely think it feels more 'floaty', and I think Sturdy agrees that his feels 'floatier' too post battery relocation. Of course my memory of how it drove before is quickly evaporating, and I'm not saying it drove better before, just that I want it to turn in better now.

Floaty would suggest that its under damped. At least thats how i would describe it.

[KMud]

monkfish1 said:

Floaty would suggest that its under damped. At least thats how i would describe it.

I think my OE dampers are less than 12 months old - I may have used the wrong word.

[chrisgixer]

What's the front tyre wear like ? Out of interest.


Across the entire width I mean. Especially inner shoulder.

[KMud]

chrisgixer said:

What's the front tyre wear like ? Out of interest.


Across the entire width I mean. Especially inner shoulder.

The tyres are nearly new (~1000 miles), but show no problems. I don't remember any uneven wear on the last set either.