991 gts drI've at Porsche experience centre
Discussion
i did too.
everything on that car is so nice....
a) steers accurately
b) even convertible is super stiff
c) damping is excellent
d) needs to get acclimatised to manual, but PDK is so fast and seamless
e) interior is well built and so luxurious
f) racing start is so effortless
but............
too much electronics on that car, it has bomb proof handling which will prevent a spin if the brakes are firmly pressed. It will make a hero of anyone driving it.
to me, that's really a problem.
everything on that car is so nice....
a) steers accurately
b) even convertible is super stiff
c) damping is excellent
d) needs to get acclimatised to manual, but PDK is so fast and seamless
e) interior is well built and so luxurious
f) racing start is so effortless
but............
too much electronics on that car, it has bomb proof handling which will prevent a spin if the brakes are firmly pressed. It will make a hero of anyone driving it.
to me, that's really a problem.
HokumPokum said:
i did too.
everything on that car is so nice....
a) steers accurately
b) even convertible is super stiff
c) damping is excellent
d) needs to get acclimatised to manual, but PDK is so fast and seamless
e) interior is well built and so luxurious
f) racing start is so effortless
but............
too much electronics on that car, it has bomb proof handling which will prevent a spin if the brakes are firmly pressed. It will make a hero of anyone driving it.
to me, that's really a problem.
Agreed. I had the 991 C2S manual at PEC, which confirmed for me that I wouldn't have a PDK 997 and I wouldn't have a manual 991: the gearbox didn't begin to compare with the six-speed+SSK and rather got in the way of things. As for the rest, it's the analogue vs digital thing again: the 991 is an utterly brilliant driving machine - it's planted, calm, predictable and unflappable. The 997.2, OTOH, is twitchy, provides sensory overload that you have to learn to filter yourself, will bite if clumsily provoked and is slower point to point over a given piece of road. But the figures don't measure the grin. Which is exactly why I'm hanging on to mine. everything on that car is so nice....
a) steers accurately
b) even convertible is super stiff
c) damping is excellent
d) needs to get acclimatised to manual, but PDK is so fast and seamless
e) interior is well built and so luxurious
f) racing start is so effortless
but............
too much electronics on that car, it has bomb proof handling which will prevent a spin if the brakes are firmly pressed. It will make a hero of anyone driving it.
to me, that's really a problem.
997 isn't as accomplished as the latest 991but will still (try to) save you if you lose it under braking... although, it may have a tougher time.
to skip electronics, i think you really have to go 996 or earlier.... which is why i think the 996 currently represents the best value from a driver's perspective.
Though, from an all round perspective, I think 997 is better
to skip electronics, i think you really have to go 996 or earlier.... which is why i think the 996 currently represents the best value from a driver's perspective.
Though, from an all round perspective, I think 997 is better
STICKY3 and I did this a few weeks ago and independently came to the conclusion that the star of the show was the Cayman GTS. The 991GTS they use is I think 4wd and that really takes the edge off the handling. You can absolutely feel the traction and stability working away, especially at the back end, which is impressive, but not especially engaging. Good laugh though!
Just did this today - first time there and a great facility. They had a mixture of manual and pdk cars, 4 and 2 wheel drive as well as a few regular carerras to compete against.
As expected, all amazing to drive and nothing to say that would contradict anything written about them. It was also my first drive of any 991 so as much a chance to find out what they're like.
The only thing I would change was that my instructor seemed to want to spend a lot of time on the skid pans to demonstrate every traction control mode and the difference between 2wd and 4wd whilst I just wanted to drive the circuits more! Eventually he relented and I got a continuous laps in at the end...
Loved getting back in my 997 to go home though, the 991 is clearly a step forward, but I just love my car...
As expected, all amazing to drive and nothing to say that would contradict anything written about them. It was also my first drive of any 991 so as much a chance to find out what they're like.
The only thing I would change was that my instructor seemed to want to spend a lot of time on the skid pans to demonstrate every traction control mode and the difference between 2wd and 4wd whilst I just wanted to drive the circuits more! Eventually he relented and I got a continuous laps in at the end...
Loved getting back in my 997 to go home though, the 991 is clearly a step forward, but I just love my car...
I do find many of the comments on here amusing. I'm an aggressive driver on track, but I can't imagine any situation where, on the public roads, I would come close to getting my 991 targa 4s out of shape, and I can't imagine that a 997 would be much different. Sure, on a wet road the back might step out a bit but, in dry conditions, you would need to be driving stupidly fast, or really badly, to test the handling limits of these cars. Call me a heretic, but the road holding of modern performance cars is so good in the real world, that I think a lot of the comments about the difference between a 2012 car and a 2014 car are tosh. Sorry guys.......
Phil B said:
I do find many of the comments on here amusing. I'm an aggressive driver on track, but I can't imagine any situation where, on the public roads, I would come close to getting my 991 targa 4s out of shape, and I can't imagine that a 997 would be much different. Sure, on a wet road the back might step out a bit but, in dry conditions, you would need to be driving stupidly fast, or really badly, to test the handling limits of these cars. Call me a heretic, but the road holding of modern performance cars is so good in the real world, that I think a lot of the comments about the difference between a 2012 car and a 2014 car are tosh. Sorry guys.......
Not sure anyone's taking about getting the cars out of shape... Just comparing how they feel to drive. The 991 generation are very different to those that came before with very different steering feel, pedal weight and general feel. As you say, to get any car out of shape on the road would mean being a little too enthusiastic... But this means the way the car engages at normal speeds is important. I like the feel of my 997 more than the 991, but I can see why a lot of my friends prefer the 991.
Phil B said:
I do find many of the comments on here amusing. I'm an aggressive driver on track, but I can't imagine any situation where, on the public roads, I would come close to getting my 991 targa 4s out of shape, and I can't imagine that a 997 would be much different. Sure, on a wet road the back might step out a bit but, in dry conditions, you would need to be driving stupidly fast, or really badly, to test the handling limits of these cars. Call me a heretic, but the road holding of modern performance cars is so good in the real world, that I think a lot of the comments about the difference between a 2012 car and a 2014 car are tosh. Sorry guys.......
+1For sure, should a 991 owner decide to push his car anywhere near the limit on public roads I don't think he'd keep his license very long.......unless he knows where every speed trap is located. I suppose any of the above comments only have relevance regarding track days- but a 991 GTS makes a very expensive track day car.
My point is, the material differences between the way cars handle is when on the limit. I read lots of posts in here about the dramatically different feel of this one vs that one. Now sure, a front wheel drive TT will drive differently to a RWD 911, but is there such a dramatic difference between 997.1 and. 997.2, or even a 991. In real world driving, apart from the obvious evolution that comes with each new model. As an example, my 991 is my first Porsche. Does the electromechanical steering feel lifeless? Not to me. I'm sure at the ready detailed level they're different, but how much, really?
(Ducks to avoid phlegm, fire and brimstone, flying bottles and general vitriol)
(Ducks to avoid phlegm, fire and brimstone, flying bottles and general vitriol)
Phil B said:
As an example, my 991 is my first Porsche. Does the electromechanical steering feel lifeless? Not to me. I'm sure at the ready detailed level they're different, but how much, really?
(Ducks to avoid phlegm, fire and brimstone, flying bottles and general vitriol)
loads, if you drove either of my cars you would wonder how did Porsche get the 911 steering so wrong !(Ducks to avoid phlegm, fire and brimstone, flying bottles and general vitriol)
infact of you drove my mini or my ST or even a new Audi you would wonder how did Porsche allow it.
Phil B said:
My point is, the material differences between the way cars handle is when on the limit. I read lots of posts in here about the dramatically different feel of this one vs that one. Now sure, a front wheel drive TT will drive differently to a RWD 911, but is there such a dramatic difference between 997.1 and. 997.2, or even a 991. In real world driving, apart from the obvious evolution that comes with each new model. As an example, my 991 is my first Porsche. Does the electromechanical steering feel lifeless? Not to me. I'm sure at the ready detailed level they're different, but how much, really?
(Ducks to avoid phlegm, fire and brimstone, flying bottles and general vitriol)
Fair enough if you haven't driven loads of Porsches - but if you think about it, just because the layout is the same it doesn't mean cars are going to drive the same way - otherwise every FWD hatchback would be the same...(Ducks to avoid phlegm, fire and brimstone, flying bottles and general vitriol)
The 991 was a major 911 iteration for Porsche, a completely new platform so it is going to drive differently to the 997. If you then add in different steering technologies, a gearbox developed as a PDK and retro-engineered to be a manual and a substantial lift in refinement towards GT car standards - you end up with something very different - not necessarily worse, but definitely different. 997.1 to 997.2 - completely new engine range in addition to substantial suspension tuning, sure its a heavy face-lift at the end of the day but it's more than a BMW style nip and tuck of bumper design.
Also, take for example your steering example - the new 991 system dampens out anything that in unnecessary - which is great the car is easier to drive and less wearing on a long journey... the thing is, some people really like the constant chatter from the 997's steering...
Today was the first time I drove a 991 and what I took away from it was - clearly a hugely capable, but there is definitely another filter between you and the car. Also, I had thought the press were being overly critical of the 7 speed manual, but it really wasn't great and the shift pattern meant it was difficult in the short time I drove it to get to know where the gears were. I'd still take the manual over the PDK, but the slick, well oiled, precise shift of the 997 is gone.
I would say that a 987 Boxster or Cayman is more similar in driving to a 997 911 that the 991 911, particularly at normal speeds.
csmith319 said:
Phil B said:
My point is, the material differences between the way cars handle is when on the limit. I read lots of posts in here about the dramatically different feel of this one vs that one. Now sure, a front wheel drive TT will drive differently to a RWD 911, but is there such a dramatic difference between 997.1 and. 997.2, or even a 991. In real world driving, apart from the obvious evolution that comes with each new model. As an example, my 991 is my first Porsche. Does the electromechanical steering feel lifeless? Not to me. I'm sure at the ready detailed level they're different, but how much, really?
(Ducks to avoid phlegm, fire and brimstone, flying bottles and general vitriol)
Fair enough if you haven't driven loads of Porsches - but if you think about it, just because the layout is the same it doesn't mean cars are going to drive the same way - otherwise every FWD hatchback would be the same...(Ducks to avoid phlegm, fire and brimstone, flying bottles and general vitriol)
The 991 was a major 911 iteration for Porsche, a completely new platform so it is going to drive differently to the 997. If you then add in different steering technologies, a gearbox developed as a PDK and retro-engineered to be a manual and a substantial lift in refinement towards GT car standards - you end up with something very different - not necessarily worse, but definitely different. 997.1 to 997.2 - completely new engine range in addition to substantial suspension tuning, sure its a heavy face-lift at the end of the day but it's more than a BMW style nip and tuck of bumper design.
Also, take for example your steering example - the new 991 system dampens out anything that in unnecessary - which is great the car is easier to drive and less wearing on a long journey... the thing is, some people really like the constant chatter from the 997's steering...
Today was the first time I drove a 991 and what I took away from it was - clearly a hugely capable, but there is definitely another filter between you and the car. Also, I had thought the press were being overly critical of the 7 speed manual, but it really wasn't great and the shift pattern meant it was difficult in the short time I drove it to get to know where the gears were. I'd still take the manual over the PDK, but the slick, well oiled, precise shift of the 997 is gone.
I would say that a 987 Boxster or Cayman is more similar in driving to a 997 911 that the 991 911, particularly at normal speeds.
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