991 GT3 R Engine
Discussion
http://www.worldcarfans.com/115051593866/porsche-9...
It appears that Porsche are walking the talk and are putting the new DFI engine from the road car into the racing cars and not the old Mezger unit. Is this correct? Is it old news...? Does the GT3 RSR use the DFI? Is this not what everyone wanted to see, showing faith in the new road car engine?
It appears that Porsche are walking the talk and are putting the new DFI engine from the road car into the racing cars and not the old Mezger unit. Is this correct? Is it old news...? Does the GT3 RSR use the DFI? Is this not what everyone wanted to see, showing faith in the new road car engine?
ScienceTeacher said:
http://www.worldcarfans.com/115051593866/porsche-9...
It appears that Porsche are walking the talk and are putting the new DFI engine from the road car into the racing cars and not the old Mezger unit. Is this correct? Is it old news...? Does the GT3 RSR use the DFI? Is this not what everyone wanted to see, showing faith in the new road car engine?
Correct pess release today from Porsche Motorsport... Current RSR is still using Mezger, for how much longer is unknown.It appears that Porsche are walking the talk and are putting the new DFI engine from the road car into the racing cars and not the old Mezger unit. Is this correct? Is it old news...? Does the GT3 RSR use the DFI? Is this not what everyone wanted to see, showing faith in the new road car engine?
Good to see this happening at last.
How soon though until Porsche go down the turbo route though as a GT racing team engineer I had a chat with a few weeks ago was absolutely convinced by 2017 all cars would be turbo... (and given that's roughly when the 488 Challenge is due to take over from the 458 I guess it makes sense given Ferrari are typically pretty good at getting the rules amended to suit...)
How soon though until Porsche go down the turbo route though as a GT racing team engineer I had a chat with a few weeks ago was absolutely convinced by 2017 all cars would be turbo... (and given that's roughly when the 488 Challenge is due to take over from the 458 I guess it makes sense given Ferrari are typically pretty good at getting the rules amended to suit...)
Supposed to debut next January according to this :
http://sportscar365.com/gt/new-porsche-911-gt3-r-s...
http://sportscar365.com/gt/new-porsche-911-gt3-r-s...
Agreed on the shape. The press release from today suggests that the GT3R ( to run in FIA GT3 class) will also use variocam as per the street car for the first time. To this point the race engines have not used this feature. Will be interesting to see the details properly on the engine side. Press releases most assuredly fall in to the propaganda column in many respects.
Regarding the RSR. Mezger until 2017 apparently, then apparently turbocharged. The competitors in the GTE class are expected to jump ship to turbos for 2016 with the reg change. Porsche have been sleeping and are - again apparently - out of step with the development cycle and will need to debut a year later. Time will tell.
Regarding the RSR. Mezger until 2017 apparently, then apparently turbocharged. The competitors in the GTE class are expected to jump ship to turbos for 2016 with the reg change. Porsche have been sleeping and are - again apparently - out of step with the development cycle and will need to debut a year later. Time will tell.
It's - according to press release - based on the RS's 4.0 engine. He should keep his bunting wrapped up for now; the chocolate 3.8 still isn't getting any love sent its way just yet.
I would presume I don't need to explicitly state that I'm just poking fun here but probably safer to do so before the whole place gets burned down.
I would presume I don't need to explicitly state that I'm just poking fun here but probably safer to do so before the whole place gets burned down.
pete a said:
Sidicks is gonna cum in his pants at this one, motorsport heritage here he comes........
My understanding was that the reason the GT3 engine was not initially used in Motorsport was due to uncertainty around the rules for future series, with Porsche not wanting to homologate a new engine, only to have the rules subsequently change.If the engine is subsequently used for Motorsport then it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of my car, just supports the comments made previously regarding why the engine didn't immediately find its way into the GT3.
Of course, other people did make a big thing about the lack of 'Motorsport heritage'...
pete a said:
Sidicks is gonna cum in his pants at this one, motorsport heritage here he comes........
but they have to win some thing don't they ? it's not great when a Bentley GT3 beats a Porsche GT3 at the races !bit like saying "we are now using the new engine, but we do come last" have that in your road car and er be the slowest !!
the other daft thing is they are all VAG cars racing each other lol bar Nissan and Ferrari. (ok there are more but a lot of VAG)
we need to see cars in British GT or some thing, where Porsche don't race in GT3 !!! and do poor in GT4
then you have the "Blancpain GT" and WEC with Porsche doing nothing :-(
All I hear is "Porsche punch above their weight" who cares ? Porsche need to be winning GT racing not an also ran
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Saturday 16th May 08:47
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You're correct Jez. The 991 GT3 RS has a completely different engine to 991 GT3 according to Porsche’s R&D boss, Wolfgang Hatz. More extreme and more exotic use of materials. Apparently this engine will then form the basis of the entire range of new engines for all their 911s but not sure if this is just marketing hype.IMIA said:
You're correct Jez. The 991 GT3 RS has a completely different engine to 991 GT3 according to Porsche’s R&D boss, Wolfgang Hatz. More extreme and more exotic use of materials. Apparently this engine will then form the basis of the entire range of new engines for all their 911s but not sure if this is just marketing hype.
I understood the 4.0 RS engine to be very similar to the 3.8 GT3. Agreed, more exotic materials have been used and it has a longer stroke, but the basic architecture is the same.ScienceTeacher said:
IMIA said:
You're correct Jez. The 991 GT3 RS has a completely different engine to 991 GT3 according to Porsche’s R&D boss, Wolfgang Hatz. More extreme and more exotic use of materials. Apparently this engine will then form the basis of the entire range of new engines for all their 911s but not sure if this is just marketing hype.
I understood the 4.0 RS engine to be very similar to the 3.8 GT3. Agreed, more exotic materials have been used and it has a longer stroke, but the basic architecture is the same.http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/porsche-911-...
This was posted on rennlist in January :
http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/855234-real-dea...
"RS is guaranteed to have not new motor architecture but absolutely derived motor from 9A1. Hatz messed everyone up and what he meant was from the last Gen car. It is 4.0 liter 9A1 and over 500hp. Told me time and again that the GT3 is basis for motorsport engine. There is some special sauce in the GT3 motor and transmission. I was told race mode PDK with a mode to alter torque vectoring."
http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/855234-real-dea...
"RS is guaranteed to have not new motor architecture but absolutely derived motor from 9A1. Hatz messed everyone up and what he meant was from the last Gen car. It is 4.0 liter 9A1 and over 500hp. Told me time and again that the GT3 is basis for motorsport engine. There is some special sauce in the GT3 motor and transmission. I was told race mode PDK with a mode to alter torque vectoring."
PorscheGT4 said:
but they have to win some thing don't they ? it's not great when a Bentley GT3 beats a Porsche GT3 at the races !
bit like saying "we are now using the new engine, but we do come last" have that in your road car and er be the slowest !!
the other daft thing is they are all VAG cars racing each other lol bar Nissan and Ferrari. (ok there are more but a lot of VAG)
we need to see cars in British GT or some thing, where Porsche don't race in GT3 !!! and do poor in GT4
then you have the "Blancpain GT" and WEC with Porsche doing nothing :-(
All I hear is "Porsche punch above their weight" who cares ? Porsche need to be winning GT racing not an also ran
I know we have danced with this before, but I am happy to go round the floor again given its the weekend and I have some time to spin.... bit like saying "we are now using the new engine, but we do come last" have that in your road car and er be the slowest !!
the other daft thing is they are all VAG cars racing each other lol bar Nissan and Ferrari. (ok there are more but a lot of VAG)
we need to see cars in British GT or some thing, where Porsche don't race in GT3 !!! and do poor in GT4
then you have the "Blancpain GT" and WEC with Porsche doing nothing :-(
All I hear is "Porsche punch above their weight" who cares ? Porsche need to be winning GT racing not an also ran
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Saturday 16th May 08:47
At the sharp end of racing Porsche is heavily outgunned and it has been this way for a while. They are outgunned specifically because of the engine. A small capacity flat 6 has trouble against the larger capacity/more cylinders units in the competitors, particularly once air restrictors for the purposes of equalisation come in to play.
If we take the Blancpain (I don't follow this but you mentioned it). Competition is as follows:
Aston Martin - V12 - 5935cc - 500hp/600Nm
R8 - V10 - 5200cc - 535hp/500Nm
Bentley - V8 - 4000cc Turbo - 500hp/660Nm
BMW - V8 - 4375cc - 515hp/515Nm
458 - V8 - 4498cc - 500hp/550Nm
Gallardo - V10 - 4961cc - 535hp/510Nm
Huracan - V10 - 5200cc - 535hp/500Nm
650S - V8 - 3799cc Turbo - 500hp/500Nm
SLS - V8 - 6208cc - 500hp/600Nm
GT-R - V6 - 3799 turbo - 500hp/650Nm
GT3-R - flat 6 - 3996cc - 500hp/460Nm
While the headline Power figures are equalised to keep the series competitive, a look at the torque figures should tell you what is going on with available Power for engine RPMs lower than red line. Porsche is behind in this metric; often way behind. That the car itself is anywhere at all is testament to its other qualities. That being said, its a hard ask and a tough pill to swallow running in these conditions hence the reducing numbers of Porsche cars on the grids. It costs as much to come last as it does to be near the front, so why run in a Porsche. The same story plays out across all of the series where the GT3 class cars run. Pirelli World Challenge for example where the racing is pretty good.
In GT-LM (Pro), the bigger boy stuff with the RSR the story is more or less the same. Porsche still fare ok in this too given the situation but a change is needed here aswell.
In both of these classes, it has been evident for some years that this was the situation and it was only going to get worse. Porsche were slow to react and it has, season by season, been biting them harder. Less podiums, less cars on the grids.
It looks like it may eventually come in 2017 in the form of turbo charging for the RSR for the GT-LM (Pro) class. I am not yet seeing how the DFI engine in the GT3-R will change the fortunes in GT3 class though, it seems to be more of the same, only cheaper. Its interesting given what is in store for GT3 class in 2016.
Edited by fioran0 on Saturday 16th May 14:19
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