996 turbo advice
Discussion
Looking for some advice on 996 or 997 turbo. Preference is probably for a 996 but could stretch to a 997 if it was worth it. I'm not a gadget man so would be happy with minimal spec from that point of view however there are a few requirements I would not budge on, namely
1) must be a tin top
2) Manual
3) Probably not silver/grey
Is there anything in particular I need to avoid, certain years etc and what do I need to look out for?
Any guidance much appreciated, obviously if there's any existing threads/buyers guides that would be good :-)
Dunc.
1) must be a tin top
2) Manual
3) Probably not silver/grey
Is there anything in particular I need to avoid, certain years etc and what do I need to look out for?
Any guidance much appreciated, obviously if there's any existing threads/buyers guides that would be good :-)
Dunc.
Edited by dunc_sx on Saturday 16th May 20:31
Not much difference in years. 2002 brought facelift, main difference is a glove compartment and cup holders.
Turbo S has more power (450 vs 420) but at the expense of a bit more lag. Non-S cars really are fast enough though especially if you get them mapped.
People will tell you to make sure the radiators have been replaced, but they're really not a big deal. They aren't all that expensive and last for years.
They are generally reliable cars, so as long as you buy one with a good history you should be fine.
Mine is for sale - manual, tin top, orient red metallic. Currently having some bits sorted to get it tip top before I put the advert up.
Turbo S has more power (450 vs 420) but at the expense of a bit more lag. Non-S cars really are fast enough though especially if you get them mapped.
People will tell you to make sure the radiators have been replaced, but they're really not a big deal. They aren't all that expensive and last for years.
They are generally reliable cars, so as long as you buy one with a good history you should be fine.
Mine is for sale - manual, tin top, orient red metallic. Currently having some bits sorted to get it tip top before I put the advert up.
dunc_sx said:
Looking for some advice on 996 or 997 turbo. Preference is probably for a 996 but could stretch to a 997 if it was worth it. I'm not a gadget man so would be happy with minimal spec from that point of view however there are a few requirements I would not budge on, namely
1) must be a tin top
2) Manual
3) Probably not silver/grey
Is there anything in particular I need to avoid, certain years etc and what do I need to look out for?
Any guidance much appreciated, obviously if there's any existing threads/buyers guides that would be good :-)
Dunc.
What to look out for? 1) must be a tin top
2) Manual
3) Probably not silver/grey
Is there anything in particular I need to avoid, certain years etc and what do I need to look out for?
Any guidance much appreciated, obviously if there's any existing threads/buyers guides that would be good :-)
Dunc.
Edited by dunc_sx on Saturday 16th May 20:31
Everything.
The 996 or 997 Turbo is just a used car and you must thoroughly check the car over for any issues.
These can range from (mostly 996 related as I am more experienced with the 996 Turbo, having owned one now since June 2009) from the manual tranny popping out of gear, to the spoiler cylinders leaking, to the radiators leaking, and just about everything in between.
You start off by visiting the car cold and with the A/C off confirming the check engine light comes on then goes off when the engine fires and runs.
The engine will be a bit rough at first, but the CEL should remain dark. As the engine gains heat it will smooth out and by the time the engine RPMs drop to near hot idle speed the engine should be purring. Well, what passes for Turbo engine purring.
Have the seller take you on a 15 mile test ride. The route should give him the chance to demo the car as you intend to use it. This should include once the engine is fully up to temp at least one hard acceleration run from say a roll on in 1st gear up to redline then a shift into 2nd and hard on the throttle.
The engine should pull very strongly, smoothly, with no drama and afterwards settle into a normal idle.
Back at the starting point then you take over as driver and drive the car over the same route, drive the car the same way.
Back at the starting option the 2nd time and the engine still idling smoothly, with no scary noises, and the coolant temperature ok and the oil pressure ok, etc., then give the car a thorough used car check out. Check everything. From headlight washer operation to sun roof operation to spoiler operation.
If after all the above if you still like the car and believe you can buy it for an agreeable sum of money arrange for a PPI. This among other things has the car in the air and the tech can look for any leaks. The leak areas include the water pump, RMS, coolant hose fittings, axle flange seals, any and all transmission seals, front diff seals, CV boots, power steering fluid lines and the rack dust boots, radiators, and so on.
Every gasket, seal, o-ring, or fitting needs to be checked.
You do not want to skimp on this. Say the spoiler cylinders are leaking. This can turn into a $2K repair if one elects to replace the spoiler hydraulic system with a new one. The cylinders are I believe available for around $400 each but there is the cost to replace them and properly bleed the system and get both sides filled with the same amount of fluid so the spoiler goes up and down evenly.
Check those radiators. My 2002 Boxster with nearly 300K miles has never had a radiator leak but the Turbo radiators, all 3, developed leaks last Dec. at 130K miles when I was in very cold temperatures. I think the expansion and contraction cycles arising from starting the engine is single digit temps (F temps too not C temps) and then the coolant temperature climbing to nearly 200F did them in. Expensive to replace all 3. Aftermarket radiators might have been cheaper but I was not in a position at that time to go that route.
For the manual equipped cars there is the clutch accumulator and slave cylinder. If when you first get in the car the clutch pedal is hard to press down this can be a sign the accumulator is shot. With the engine running the clutch should be easier to work but if it gets hard again with the engine off: clutch accumulator. Another sign is if when using the clutch you feel pulsing through the pedal. The accum. normally dampens this but if it is not working right the pulsing comes through the pedal. (The pulsing is from the power steering pump.)
If you spot fluid stain on top of the plastic cover that covers the small fluid reservoir under the front trunk lid this is the clutch slave cylinder letting fluid past its seals. Generally if the slave cylinder is leaking or the accumulator is diagnosed as bad it is a good idea to just replace both items.
Remember these are expensive cars new and they are expensive to maintain and repair. The local dealer does not discount its labor rate for either my 2003 Turbo or my 2002 Boxster.
Assuming something "minor" is minor can be risky. Take the head light. A dark headlight might be a bad bulb. But it might be the igniter, which can run around $800 for parts alone.
Bad O2 sensors can run $1000 to replace. The ones in my Turbo lasted 132K miles.
A rear view mirror with a funny splotch in it can mean the fluid is leaking and a new rear view mirror can run nearly $500. (In some cases these can be "rebuilt" I do not know the cost.)
An air bag warning light on even if there is no air bag problem can mean a new instrument cluster. I do not know what a new cluster for a Turbo costs. My Boxster has this problem and a new cluster is $2500. Thankfully the cluster can be "rebuilt" and is being rebuilt for $400 but this price does not include the labor to remove and install the cluster.
If the turbo oil seals are leaking you don't want to know how much new turbos can cost. Rebuilding might be an option but I have no prices to quote. During PPI the tech can remove the intake hoses and look for excessive amounts of oil in the intake system, in the intercoolers and check the turbo compressor wheels for oil sign. If the wheels are wet with oil this can be from failed seals. The engine may not smoke much but oil consumption can be high.
And so on. Not a full list by any means, but I think you get the idea.
Check everything.
Edited by Rockster on Sunday 17th May 19:18
New O2 sensors do not cost $1000 dollars to replace. Mine are being done right now and the parts are only £100 each. I am quite sure it's not 5+ hours to fit them.
Of course they can be expensive to fix, but the previous post makes it sound like they are money pits unless you are very lucky!
Incidentally, the check engine light is a very different thing for American vs ROW cars. American cars will light them for any fault - if you see it on a UK car, it's more serious. For example you will not get CEL for failed oxygen sensors in the UK.
It's a used car that is at least 10 years old. Things will break. They will cost you money. But in general, they are good reliable cars.
Of course they can be expensive to fix, but the previous post makes it sound like they are money pits unless you are very lucky!
Incidentally, the check engine light is a very different thing for American vs ROW cars. American cars will light them for any fault - if you see it on a UK car, it's more serious. For example you will not get CEL for failed oxygen sensors in the UK.
It's a used car that is at least 10 years old. Things will break. They will cost you money. But in general, they are good reliable cars.
davek_964 said:
... For example you will not get CEL for failed oxygen sensors in the UK.
It's a used car that is at least 10 years old. Things will break. They will cost you money. But in general, they are good reliable cars.
I thought O2 sensors faults will trigger the CEL. My 996T does and when I checked the fault codes, there were all sorts of P015x codes. It's a used car that is at least 10 years old. Things will break. They will cost you money. But in general, they are good reliable cars.
Costs will be higher but comparable to my W220 S-Class. Generally I expect 4-figure maintenance and repair bills every time they go into their respective specialists.
However, my 996T still worth over £20k while my S-Class is worth under £5k despite having very similar bills.
hygt2 said:
davek_964 said:
... For example you will not get CEL for failed oxygen sensors in the UK.
It's a used car that is at least 10 years old. Things will break. They will cost you money. But in general, they are good reliable cars.
I thought O2 sensors faults will trigger the CEL. My 996T does and when I checked the fault codes, there were all sorts of P015x codes. It's a used car that is at least 10 years old. Things will break. They will cost you money. But in general, they are good reliable cars.
Costs will be higher but comparable to my W220 S-Class. Generally I expect 4-figure maintenance and repair bills every time they go into their respective specialists.
However, my 996T still worth over £20k while my S-Class is worth under £5k despite having very similar bills.
In any case, it is a fact that UK cars do not trigger CEL for as many things as US cars.
Mad March Taffy said:
Unless you have flexibility on price, be prepared to wait a while to find your ideal car - less and less for sale and you might have to move quickly if you find one that fits the bill.
This, took me about a year to find a car I wanted and that was over 3 years ago!
davek_964 said:
New O2 sensors do not cost $1000 dollars to replace. Mine are being done right now and the parts are only £100 each. I am quite sure it's not 5+ hours to fit them.
Of course they can be expensive to fix, but the previous post makes it sound like they are money pits unless you are very lucky!
Incidentally, the check engine light is a very different thing for American vs ROW cars. American cars will light them for any fault - if you see it on a UK car, it's more serious. For example you will not get CEL for failed oxygen sensors in the UK.
It's a used car that is at least 10 years old. Things will break. They will cost you money. But in general, they are good reliable cars.
That's what I paid, and at an indy shop, too.Of course they can be expensive to fix, but the previous post makes it sound like they are money pits unless you are very lucky!
Incidentally, the check engine light is a very different thing for American vs ROW cars. American cars will light them for any fault - if you see it on a UK car, it's more serious. For example you will not get CEL for failed oxygen sensors in the UK.
It's a used car that is at least 10 years old. Things will break. They will cost you money. But in general, they are good reliable cars.
Those #1 sensors are wideband and more expensive than the standard narrow band sensors.
Gerradi said:
If I want to plug in diagnostic software to a car I am interested in, instead of thrashing it on roads I do not know & may unsettle the owner, would that seem pushy ?
Plugging in diagnostic software will be part of the PPI anyway. You want to change for operating hours (so you can make an educated guess if the car has been clocked), over-revving as well as fault codes.To be honest, I left the proper test drive, again part of the PPI, to the specialist (Ken at 9E in my case) while the owner and I had teas and bacon sandwich and browsing 9E's workshop. I drove the car earlier when I viewed it but since I was going to put it through a PPI anyway, I thought to let the professions to do a proper drive for me (and without the owner in the car).
Slightly O/t a friend bought a car privately & after a few weks he had a service light come on,so he serviced it & asked if I would turn the light off & check for DTC's. All was well until I went into information & it showed 186k+, the odometer is showing 118k!
So yes a plug in is definitely needed, not a Porsche by the way.
So yes a plug in is definitely needed, not a Porsche by the way.
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff