996 C4S advice
Discussion
Hi, I am considering getting a 996 Carrera 4S. What should I be looking out for and are there any major downsides? I know the usual condition, mileage, history etc. Is the fabled 996 engine failures really as bad as it portrayed? I heard somewhere that it only affect 5% of 996 production and early cars were most susceptible.
A lot of adverts are stating that prices are rising and this is a future classic. Opinions? Also, which is most desirable, Coupe, Cab, Manual, Tip, colour?
Any advice is helpful..
A lot of adverts are stating that prices are rising and this is a future classic. Opinions? Also, which is most desirable, Coupe, Cab, Manual, Tip, colour?
Any advice is helpful..
I have one.
Engine - 5% - yes you have a 1 in 20 chance of a major engine issue according to the Internet. Some say that it's not mileage related. Keep searching PH for more info.
What to look for - same as any other 996 - history and condition
Spec - depends on what you want - manual worth more than tip. Avoid nasty interior colours. Try and get PSE - this is what makes the C4S what it is
Prices - if you buy one you're not going to lose much if any. But they won't be £30k+ anytime soon. Buy one to drive and know that your money is in a good place but it's not an investment
Engine - 5% - yes you have a 1 in 20 chance of a major engine issue according to the Internet. Some say that it's not mileage related. Keep searching PH for more info.
What to look for - same as any other 996 - history and condition
Spec - depends on what you want - manual worth more than tip. Avoid nasty interior colours. Try and get PSE - this is what makes the C4S what it is
Prices - if you buy one you're not going to lose much if any. But they won't be £30k+ anytime soon. Buy one to drive and know that your money is in a good place but it's not an investment
Engine failures are a huge ? because it all depends whether the advice you are getting comes from a denier or a doomsayer.
But they exist and the 5% is completely meaningless because it is not qualified.
5% per annum? 5% of production? How can anyone claim the latter when there are many engines that may still fail? Will they all, eventually? Will half of them? If so then the figures would be 100% and 50% respectively. As long as cars are still on the road and no 100% permanent fix to both issues is found and applied to all cars, a rather tall order, no % figure can ever be applied.
The only figures relevant to engine failure are those related to resale value, and the fact that these cars are now ending up in true petrolheads' ownership, so there's no hiding the reality.
The main problem with the C4S (and I'd love to have one, very pretty car indeed) is the Turbo. For not a lot more money you can have a "C4S", but much more of it, yet without the main engine worries.
But they exist and the 5% is completely meaningless because it is not qualified.
5% per annum? 5% of production? How can anyone claim the latter when there are many engines that may still fail? Will they all, eventually? Will half of them? If so then the figures would be 100% and 50% respectively. As long as cars are still on the road and no 100% permanent fix to both issues is found and applied to all cars, a rather tall order, no % figure can ever be applied.
The only figures relevant to engine failure are those related to resale value, and the fact that these cars are now ending up in true petrolheads' ownership, so there's no hiding the reality.
The main problem with the C4S (and I'd love to have one, very pretty car indeed) is the Turbo. For not a lot more money you can have a "C4S", but much more of it, yet without the main engine worries.
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-buying-guide-co...
At the bottom of this article it mentions the 5%. Must admit I do not know how that can quantify this unless they have actual data stating how many failed from total production.
It looks like values are increasing very slightly, but I am not expecting huge gains any time soon. (My 964 appears to have doubled in value overnight or so it seems, the market is a but wild at the moment). As long as it does not go down, it will be used and enjoyed..
I fancy black with black/grey leather, ideally with Nav and the sports exhaust. The front intakes look a bit gawpy but the black hides this well.
I really do fancy a Turbo, but all the low mileage ones are well over £30k now, and I am worried that one priced at £26k is for a good reason (big bills)..
At the bottom of this article it mentions the 5%. Must admit I do not know how that can quantify this unless they have actual data stating how many failed from total production.
It looks like values are increasing very slightly, but I am not expecting huge gains any time soon. (My 964 appears to have doubled in value overnight or so it seems, the market is a but wild at the moment). As long as it does not go down, it will be used and enjoyed..
I fancy black with black/grey leather, ideally with Nav and the sports exhaust. The front intakes look a bit gawpy but the black hides this well.
I really do fancy a Turbo, but all the low mileage ones are well over £30k now, and I am worried that one priced at £26k is for a good reason (big bills)..
Hi there - I have owned a C4S for four years (a 996 Tip Coupe).
It is a great car, an absolute joy to drive; has 53k on clock and is garaged.
No engine issues, and have kept the vehicle serviced (it has FS history with OPC).
The car is now 10 years old and some areas are showing signs of both AGEING and WEAR.
Have recently replaced the wheel bearings, bushes, strut mounts and petrol cap o-ring. The muffler seam is 'iffy' but not in need of repair yet (OPC have been saying that for three years..).
When Porsche wrote the service manuals 16 years ago they would not have known fully how some of the materials would perform/fail with age (read shrink that leads to play, especially rubbers polyethylene parts) and they are not noted in the service schedule.
They key is replacing these parts early to avoid accumulative damage, and would suspect that fellow 996 C4S owners (I can only speak of what I own) will have experienced similar.
It is a superb car, and worth the same that I paid for it four years ago but...it will cost to look after it. I budget £1000 a year for one axle of tyres and service.
When I bought my C4S I paid Peter Morgan Associates about £300 to check it over; the confidence and peace of mind was absolutely worth the cost as I am no expert; even used the output to negotiate on price. You might consider the same.
It is a great car, an absolute joy to drive; has 53k on clock and is garaged.
No engine issues, and have kept the vehicle serviced (it has FS history with OPC).
The car is now 10 years old and some areas are showing signs of both AGEING and WEAR.
Have recently replaced the wheel bearings, bushes, strut mounts and petrol cap o-ring. The muffler seam is 'iffy' but not in need of repair yet (OPC have been saying that for three years..).
When Porsche wrote the service manuals 16 years ago they would not have known fully how some of the materials would perform/fail with age (read shrink that leads to play, especially rubbers polyethylene parts) and they are not noted in the service schedule.
They key is replacing these parts early to avoid accumulative damage, and would suspect that fellow 996 C4S owners (I can only speak of what I own) will have experienced similar.
It is a superb car, and worth the same that I paid for it four years ago but...it will cost to look after it. I budget £1000 a year for one axle of tyres and service.
When I bought my C4S I paid Peter Morgan Associates about £300 to check it over; the confidence and peace of mind was absolutely worth the cost as I am no expert; even used the output to negotiate on price. You might consider the same.
Edited by RoadRaider on Sunday 17th May 22:29
I had a 996 C4S before my Vantage. Brilliant car and even in Tip form, driven "correctly" it still brought a smile to my face.
I had a replacement engine in it just before i bought it so i took it on that basis bad luck cant run twice so wasnt too bothered about the dreaded IMS issues. Bore scoring can occur easier with a 3.6/Tip due to 2nd gear pull aways which is its default setting. There are a few technical posts on the reasons why but drive the thing in manual and pull away in 1st and you limit this happening.
The car i had was sold with 60k odd on the clock and i had some bushes changed etc on the front end suspension and re-welded the rear silencers. I did the brake pads themselves and discs but other than that it was faultless. Service it with OPC and ignore the over reactive OPC "you need a new exhaust" when a weld will sort it!
A Turbo is knocking on the door but to get a good one now is harder and harder to find and no where near where the C4S are sitting price wise. But the C4S could be a future classic so get one now before they start rising.
PSE is a must.....for some reason it sounds better fitted to a C4s!.
I had a replacement engine in it just before i bought it so i took it on that basis bad luck cant run twice so wasnt too bothered about the dreaded IMS issues. Bore scoring can occur easier with a 3.6/Tip due to 2nd gear pull aways which is its default setting. There are a few technical posts on the reasons why but drive the thing in manual and pull away in 1st and you limit this happening.
The car i had was sold with 60k odd on the clock and i had some bushes changed etc on the front end suspension and re-welded the rear silencers. I did the brake pads themselves and discs but other than that it was faultless. Service it with OPC and ignore the over reactive OPC "you need a new exhaust" when a weld will sort it!
A Turbo is knocking on the door but to get a good one now is harder and harder to find and no where near where the C4S are sitting price wise. But the C4S could be a future classic so get one now before they start rising.
PSE is a must.....for some reason it sounds better fitted to a C4s!.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Prefer the Turbo (but then I would say that) but the 4S is a very close second and, in terms of exhaust note - this having heard the two, side-by-side at the weekend, both me and Mrs Digga reckon the non-turbo sounds sweeter.Digga said:
Prefer the Turbo (but then I would say that) but the 4S is a very close second and, in terms of exhaust note - this having heard the two, side-by-side at the weekend, both me and Mrs Digga reckon the non-turbo sounds sweeter.
The GT2 is obviously the best looking 996, and just maybe the best looking of all 911s!
cptsplash said:
I fancy black with black/grey leather, ideally with Nav and the sports exhaust.
Hmmm bit of a boring colour combo. I think a lighter exterior colour like grey or even silver (and I usually hate silver cars) works better. A black interior looks pretty dated now but to be honest the other interior choices in the 996 were mostly woeful, except for Boxster Red 
Don't bother with nav, it's crap and makes everything look cluttered. PSE or some kind of sports exhaust is a must. However... the boxes are known to crack and a replacement PSE is VERY expensive (£4-5k). A lack of PSE wouldn't put me off if everything else was in order - not when there's the Carnewal GT exhaust option around
Loved my C4S when I had it 5 years ago, ironically sold it because it was a bit too capable for the everyday stuff so lost a bit of its specialness. Only thing that ever bugged me was the extra 125kg over the boggo C2 which blunted performance a bit. Would love to get hold of one and do few choice mods like stripping away some weight, FWD delete, engine rebuild to 3.9 etc. If anyone comes across one with a knackered lump, let me know
Mario149 said:
Loved my C4S when I had it 5 years ago, ironically sold it because it was a bit too capable for the everyday stuff so lost a bit of its specialness. Only thing that ever bugged me was the extra 125kg over the boggo C2 which blunted performance a bit. Would love to get hold of one and do few choice mods like stripping away some weight, FWD delete, engine rebuild to 3.9 etc. If anyone comes across one with a knackered lump, let me know
Or you could save yourself the hassle and the cost and get a more pure 996 C2....
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