M6 - am I bonkers?

[stuart-b]

I have been looking at the whole spectrum of cars to replace mine this summer. Ranging from a practical car (Golf 6, or equiv.) plus a fun car (Z4M or Boxster S/Cayman) - the usual dilemma a lot of us face when wanting something fun. I just can't make my mind up.

My biggest issue is that I live abroad most of the time and bring the car along for trips - overall I would say I average 10k per year - max. I don't really need two cars - I never use my 2nd car now (except in the Winter).

One car means the budget is higher, less insurance, and so on.

With that in mind I went searching for an M car with 4 seats which is around 20k - seems the E92's are keeping their value very strong. I don't want an E46, I just can't live with the older style/interior - so that is out of the equation.

I need 4 seats but people rarely use them - so I don't need an M5, plus it's a bit old looking now.

That brings me to the M6... it seems to be drawing to me as the most "practical", fast, 4 seat M car I can buy.

I'm not too worried about running costs, MPG, and so on. Euro car parts now offer a range of parts (from the SMG clutch, Dual mass flywheel, etc) - I can get the parts shipped to me here and the work done locally.

This car seems to be a mega bargain for the performance and equipment on offer.

Is a 2.0d to a 5.0 petrol signalling an early mid-life crisis ?

I can't help but think in a few years I'll be driven around in an electric self driven car. The urge to get a 'silly' engine while free of commitments is strong.

Am I mad?

[Schermerhorn]

Put it this way,

It's faster than the E92 M3 and once rolling (over 80mph or so) will beat the latest F80 M3 and M4 models also.

You can't ignore 500 ponies!

It also sounds utterly mental too, especially in tunnels. Don't also let people tell you that it doesn't handle. Trust me, it does!

My frind had mine sideways at 110mph and it never lost composure.

It's anything but a wallowy car. The more dynamic M3 wouldn't be able to shake it and on a straight bit of road, above 60mph, the M6 would just walk away into the distance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTvBk8k9sWM

Things to look out for are;

full service history - no history means no warranty can be put on the car.

Clutch and flywheel having been done. Clutch position sensor also.

Throttle actuators are prone to going. Make sure its been done.

Make sure there is plenty of life in the tyres and the brakes. To replace the lot it's circa £2500.

A good car is around £20,000.

If you can get one thats had all its work done, FSH, still under warranty for around £18,000 you aren't going to lose much money. I think the prices at bottoming out now and it'll never be a £10,000 car ever in opinion. Infact, I think prices will firm and then slowly rise.

I went from a 1.9 TDi B5 Passat (my dad's old car) straight to a 5.0 V10 with nothing in between. Oh....I was only 28 at the time too.

When I'm 30 I may just get a 991 Turbo or the F10 M5 and leave my V10 days behind

[okgo]

Schermerhorn said:

Put it this way,
Oh....I was only 28 at the time too.

When I'm 30 I may just get a 991 Turbo or the F10 M5 and leave my V10 days behind

Thinly veiled brags are the best..

OP you say M3 are holding firm, but there are plenty for around 20k?

[cosworth330]

Mad ? Not really. I've had my V10 M5 coming up 2 yrs and I've only ever been to the garage for servicing. It's been 100% reliable.
We all have different tastes and I thought the M6 was ugly but I do prefer fast saloon cars and always have done.

Just don't buy a cheap shed as it could be a world of pain, 20k will be a good enough budget.

[Schermerhorn]

okgo said:

Schermerhorn said:

Put it this way,
Oh....I was only 28 at the time too.

When I'm 30 I may just get a 991 Turbo or the F10 M5 and leave my V10 days behind

Thinly veiled brags are the best..

OP you say M3 are holding firm, but there are plenty for around 20k?

I test drove an E92 M3 the other day and I loved the DCT gearbox. It was very smooth and you could drive it like an automatic. The M6 with the SMG takes some mastering to make it smooth but it can definately be driven smoothly.

The performance fell way short of the V10 though which I was surprised about. I thought it would pull as hard or maybe the smoothness of the gearbox hid the performance.

[cosworth330]

From my experience it's not faster than the F80 M3/M4 , maybe over 150 mph. 3 of us with V10's at Brands Hatch a couple of weeks ago were not quicker than the new M3/M4 's.

[R8VXF]

stuart-b said:

I have been looking at the whole spectrum of cars to replace mine this summer. Ranging from a practical car (Golf 6, or equiv.) plus a fun car (Z4M or Boxster S/Cayman) - the usual dilemma a lot of us face when wanting something fun. I just can't make my mind up.

My biggest issue is that I live abroad most of the time and bring the car along for trips - overall I would say I average 10k per year - max. I don't really need two cars - I never use my 2nd car now (except in the Winter).

One car means the budget is higher, less insurance, and so on.

With that in mind I went searching for an M car with 4 seats which is around 20k - seems the E92's are keeping their value very strong. I don't want an E46, I just can't live with the older style/interior - so that is out of the equation.

I need 4 seats but people rarely use them - so I don't need an M5, plus it's a bit old looking now.

That brings me to the M6... it seems to be drawing to me as the most "practical", fast, 4 seat M car I can buy.

I'm not too worried about running costs, MPG, and so on. Euro car parts now offer a range of parts (from the SMG clutch, Dual mass flywheel, etc) - I can get the parts shipped to me here and the work done locally.

This car seems to be a mega bargain for the performance and equipment on offer.

Is a 2.0d to a 5.0 petrol signalling an early mid-life crisis ?

I can't help but think in a few years I'll be driven around in an electric self driven car. The urge to get a 'silly' engine while free of commitments is strong.

Am I mad?

I wouldn't worry about the midlife crisis thing. I went from a 2.0d to a 6.2l Supercharged V8 at 30 years young. Needs a couple hundred more bhp though...

[stuart-b]

cosworth330 said:

From my experience it's not faster than the F80 M3/M4 , maybe over 150 mph. 3 of us with V10's at Brands Hatch a couple of weeks ago were not quicker than the new M3/M4 's.

Needs one of these

[stuart-b]

okgo said:

Thinly veiled brags are the best..

OP you say M3 are holding firm, but there are plenty for around 20k?

A good DCT one is around 23-24k. I factor in that I will need to spend 2.5k on any second hand car to bring it up to how I want it. With the M6 I plan to buy a cheaper one and then spend the money getting the work done.

I'll do the brakes (if needed), suspension bushes, tyres (if needed), oil, filters, spark plugs, clutch/flywheel and any other bits done - all at once.

At least then I get the value of all the new bits and I can check the car properly and know what I'm getting into. It is how I've always approached buying second hand cars and so far, they've all been very reliable.

[stuart-b]

R8VXF said:

I wouldn't worry about the midlife crisis thing. I went from a 2.0d to a 6.2l Supercharged V8 at 30 years young. Needs a couple hundred more bhp though...

I've never owned anything with more than 4 cylinders. The idea of having to change 10 spark plugs and 2 air filters just seems outrageous!

[stuart-b]

I should add that I tend to always sort the tyres/geo/wheels/suspension because I tend to drive fast in Germany, and I'm nervous about speeding in a car where anyone could have curbed the tyres... etc.

[Schermerhorn]

stuart-b said:

okgo said:

Thinly veiled brags are the best..

OP you say M3 are holding firm, but there are plenty for around 20k?

A good DCT one is around 23-24k. I factor in that I will need to spend 2.5k on any second hand car to bring it up to how I want it. With the M6 I plan to buy a cheaper one and then spend the money getting the work done.

I'll do the brakes (if needed), suspension bushes, tyres (if needed), oil, filters, spark plugs, clutch/flywheel and any other bits done - all at once.

At least then I get the value of all the new bits and I can check the car properly and know what I'm getting into. It is how I've always approached buying second hand cars and so far, they've all been very reliable.

Be wary Stuart, the M6 is much more expensive to run than the E92 M3 in terms of parts.

Brakes (even from ECP) will be around £800.

Suspension bushes - it's all the same as the standard E63 series as far as I am aware. Lemforder may have some good deals from ECP.

Tyres again will be around £800-900 if you want some good ones like Pirelli, Michelin or Conti Sports.

Clutch and flywheel and clutch position sensor - £1000 + in parts

Oil service on its own is around £300

Spark plugs - over £500 from memory

Or just buy one thats had it all done. Ask the seller for proof of the work having been carried out.

I am now in two minds about selling mine. What can touch it for performance for the same money? Even a 997 Turbo doesn't match the interior, while Gallardos are naff in comparison and a Ferrari F430 is around £70,000.

To get the same performance and 'looks' what else is there?

[NORTS]

OP - have you driven one? The SMG box can feel rather dated now. Biggest problem IMO with the M6 is its aged badly. Lovely engine though. Must say the new M6 model is a stunner!

For similar money you will likely have more fun in a 911, M3 or even something more extreme like a Lotus.

Straight line speed isn't everything. It's the bits in between that count.

[stuart-b]

Schermerhorn said:

Be wary Stuart, the M6 is much more expensive to run than the E92 M3 in terms of parts.

Brakes (even from ECP) will be around £800.

Suspension bushes - it's all the same as the standard E63 series as far as I am aware. Lemforder may have some good deals from ECP.

Tyres again will be around £800-900 if you want some good ones like Pirelli, Michelin or Conti Sports.

Clutch and flywheel and clutch position sensor - £1000 + in parts

Oil service on its own is around £300

Spark plugs - over £500 from memory

Or just buy one thats had it all done. Ask the seller for proof of the work having been carried out.

I am now in two minds about selling mine. What can touch it for performance for the same money? Even a 997 Turbo doesn't match the interior, while Gallardos are naff in comparison and a Ferrari F430 is around £70,000.

To get the same performance and 'looks' what else is there?

Of course you are correct-but I've lost nearly 10k with my car in depreciation alone. A fraction of what others here have lost. I've also bought brakes, tyres (350 each for the rear, 255/30/19 aren't cheap on an E92 either).

There's no doubt it's not a cheap car to run - but you wouldn't necessarily replace all 4 discs and pads at once. The dual mass flywheel can be re-aligned to a new clutch if it isn't showing visible wear and you can buy the NGK plugs for £10 each. Dropping the oil isn't difficult either.

My car just had a timing chain recall performed- if I wanted to do that without the recall it would be £1-£2k. The DSC unit failed, the turbo actuator valve failed (BMW UK wanted to replace the turbo, but a master mechanic here replaced just the actuator).

Point is what my diesel 200 bhp car has technically cost me the same to run as something much better made !

Eyes open and with lower depreciation I think I could enjoy the car for 12-24 months without breaking the bank...

Here's hoping.

[stuart-b]

NORTS said:

OP - have you driven one? The SMG box can feel rather dated now. Biggest problem IMO with the M6 is its aged badly. Lovely engine though. Must say the new M6 model is a stunner!

For similar money you will likely have more fun in a 911, M3 or even something more extreme like a Lotus.

Straight line speed isn't everything. It's the bits in between that count.

I looked at 911, but that budget gets me an old model (2003~ ideally I would want a 4S, those are 70k mile+) which will need work. RPM Porsche mentioned lots of "work" that needs doing, plus bore inspections, RMS, IMS...

[stuart-b]

NORTS said:

OP - have you driven one? The SMG box can feel rather dated now. Biggest problem IMO with the M6 is its aged badly. Lovely engine though. Must say the new M6 model is a stunner!

For similar money you will likely have more fun in a 911, M3 or even something more extreme like a Lotus.

Straight line speed isn't everything. It's the bits in between that count.

A 645ci auto, which nose dived on braking like you wouldn't believe ! So, the answer is no.

I have researched the SMG and it does strike me as a box which would keep me interested. I think it would be a good balance between auto and the fun of manual. From what I've seen people either love or hate them. Looking at the videos of the car, it seems to be a solid box with strong changes. Part of the appeal for me is that it seems "more simple". A single clutch, automated manual - fixable by a "normal" mechanic, unlike the GTR gearbox or most DCTs! Or am I talking rubbish?

The DCT box on the M135i I drove didn't inspire me. It was fast, but didn't feel strong - the car had only done 40k km's, but it was already rumbling under load and felt 'shagged' (it probably was driven very hard all its life to be fair).

[Schermerhorn]

Stuart, mine is for sale, still under comprehensive warranty if you are interested.

FSH
New tyres
New brakes
New clutch/ flywheel / position sensor / SMG pump
New throttle actuator

Drop me a PM with your telephone number if you are interested

[NORTS]

stuart-b said:

A 645ci auto, which nose dived on braking like you wouldn't believe ! So, the answer is no.

I have researched the SMG and it does strike me as a box which would keep me interested. I think it would be a good balance between auto and the fun of manual. From what I've seen people either love or hate them. Looking at the videos of the car, it seems to be a solid box with strong changes. Part of the appeal for me is that it seems "more simple". A single clutch, automated manual - fixable by a "normal" mechanic, unlike the GTR gearbox or most DCTs! Or am I talking rubbish?

The DCT box on the M135i I drove didn't inspire me. It was fast, but didn't feel strong - the car had only done 40k km's, but it was already rumbling under load and felt 'shagged' (it probably was driven very hard all its life to be fair).

Shame you couldn't up the budget a little to a 997? C2S would be the one.

Well the internet only tells half the story, drive one and see what you think first hand.

FYI - The M135i doesn't have a DCT box. It has an auto 8 speed.

Drive an M3 with DCT and M6 with SMG back to back before you buy either, don't just go on the internet. Both drive very differently.

Good luck anyhow...

[e46m3c]

i wonder about adding a m6 to the stable too. Future classic? Last of the affordable 500bhp v10's? Perhaps i buy for the sound track alone.

Or perhaps put the v10 in my m3.

[Shaoxter]

stuart-b said:

With the M6 I plan to buy a cheaper one and then spend the money getting the work done.

I'll do the brakes (if needed), suspension bushes, tyres (if needed), oil, filters, spark plugs, clutch/flywheel and any other bits done - all at once.

That strategy might work for cheaper run of the mill cars but I would definitely advise against that for an M6. It will be far cheaper to get one which has had all that done (at a dealer/reputable garage of course). For all the stuff on your list I make it at least £5k.

I'd probably buy Schermerhorn's one to be honest...

stuart-b said:

I have researched the SMG and it does strike me as a box which would keep me interested. I think it would be a good balance between auto and the fun of manual. From what I've seen people either love or hate them. Looking at the videos of the car, it seems to be a solid box with strong changes. Part of the appeal for me is that it seems "more simple". A single clutch, automated manual - fixable by a "normal" mechanic, unlike the GTR gearbox or most DCTs! Or am I talking rubbish?

Good to see you've done some research, I think you'll love the SMG. Some people will tell you it's clunky but IMO the clunk is part of the appeal - you feel/hear something mechanical. My passengers have always been surprised when I told them the box was not an auto, shifts are smooth if you want them to be. Apart from in S6 mode of course

cosworth330 said:

From my experience it's not faster than the F80 M3/M4 , maybe over 150 mph. 3 of us with V10's at Brands Hatch a couple of weeks ago were not quicker than the new M3/M4 's.

Hmmm I thought they were pretty similar, although the M3/4's were quicker in the corners. The extra shove from the F10 M5 however was very noticeable