Just met the local police
Discussion
At a local meeting to do with setting the police precept. I went along to give them a bit of a "BliarOut" over speed camera support, but I got sidetracked.
Usual sort of stuff, but our divisional inspector was explaining prioritisation on response times. Discussions followed with various members of the public putting points across about whether or not they will get a response to a 999 call.
I saw a problem with this. If your call isn't a sufficient priority due to a larger disturbance, you may not get a response, even if you have a burglary in progress. I felt the need to take him to task on this, so I asked him if we, the public had their full support.
His response was along the lines of "well if you take a pick axe handle to them, then no". I disagreed with him and put the point across that if there's no police response then a pick axe handle is in fact entirely reasonable. Cue much agreement from the audience and a colleague trained in public speaking stepping in to point out that the jury would be your peers and a conviction would be unlikely. (Poor bloke, he was in need of rescue
)
I am still a little uneasy about his response as I would expect unequivical support from the police should they choose not to respond due to operational priorities when someone is in dire need.
As a householder, you have one or two seconds to make a snap decision that will be analysed over days, weeks or months in a court of law.
Still, I think I put my points across well as it looks like I'm going to be in the local papers
Usual sort of stuff, but our divisional inspector was explaining prioritisation on response times. Discussions followed with various members of the public putting points across about whether or not they will get a response to a 999 call.
I saw a problem with this. If your call isn't a sufficient priority due to a larger disturbance, you may not get a response, even if you have a burglary in progress. I felt the need to take him to task on this, so I asked him if we, the public had their full support.
His response was along the lines of "well if you take a pick axe handle to them, then no". I disagreed with him and put the point across that if there's no police response then a pick axe handle is in fact entirely reasonable. Cue much agreement from the audience and a colleague trained in public speaking stepping in to point out that the jury would be your peers and a conviction would be unlikely. (Poor bloke, he was in need of rescue
) I am still a little uneasy about his response as I would expect unequivical support from the police should they choose not to respond due to operational priorities when someone is in dire need.
As a householder, you have one or two seconds to make a snap decision that will be analysed over days, weeks or months in a court of law.
Still, I think I put my points across well as it looks like I'm going to be in the local papers
BliarOut said:
True, but my point was it should never get to the jury stage. "Sorry we couldn't get here sooner and left you to resolve matters alone" was the response I would have expected.
It's your word against a burglar. No you didn't hit
him, he must have banged his head. No idea how
that happened. It wasn't me. I was asleep and heard
a bang, clumsy I guess..
I think in most cases you would get found not guilty, but that is not the point.
It should not get anywhere near court, or arrest. The CPS should not be creaming themselves to try and screw you at all costs for defending your property, I thought the CPS was suposed to prosecute in the best interests of the public?
It should not get anywhere near court, or arrest. The CPS should not be creaming themselves to try and screw you at all costs for defending your property, I thought the CPS was suposed to prosecute in the best interests of the public?
CASE DISMISSED - NEXT!BliarOut said:
True, but my point was it should never get to the jury stage. "Sorry we couldn't get here sooner and left you to resolve matters alone" was the response I would have expected.
The Police and CPS will be desperately trying to cover the non-response though.
They still are ; local plod are notorious for hanging around Martin trying to do him ... for anything.
Streetcop said:
We all know what we'd like to do if faced with a burglar in our home; and some of us would indeed be capable....
However, we haven't to be naive enough to realise that over-reaction has consequences; and not just in the courts...
Could I and four of my mates put him on the floor and give him a good kicking then ? I ask, because that appears to have no consequences....
autismuk said:
We all know what we'd like to do if faced with a burglar in our home; and some of us would indeed be capable....
However, we haven't to be naive enough to realise that over-reaction has consequences; and not just in the courts...
Could I and four of my mates put him on the floor and give him a good kicking then ? I ask, because that appears to have no consequences....
Of course it has consequences; and usually the MoP is bleating about those consequences.
It's all down to the perceived threat.
Was speaking with a sergeant the other night..he was in charge of a nightshift of just 7 officers........at 11pm they arrested 4 known heroin users, upon taking them back to the station all 4 had at some time said they were suicidal.....the custody sergeant insisted each prisoner had their cell doors open with a police officer sat outside each watching them as per the rules............that left 3 officers for the night shift.........water main bursts on road, needs 2 officers to shut the road, they are tied up for 4 hours............that leaves one female officer with 2 years experience to cover domestics, assults, burglary in progress etc.........sergeant said he was reluctant to send her anywhere on here own as she is 5ft 2 tall and weighs 7 stone wet thru......
If you called the police that night, I am afraid you were on your own.
poorcardealer said:
Was speaking with a sergeant the other night..he was in charge of a nightshift of just 7 officers........at 11pm they arrested 4 known heroin users, upon taking them back to the station all 4 had at some time said they were suicidal.....the custody sergeant insisted each prisoner had their cell doors open with a police officer sat outside each watching them as per the rules............that left 3 officers for the night shift.........water main bursts on road, needs 2 officers to shut the road, they are tied up for 4 hours............that leaves one female officer with 2 years experience to cover domestics, assults, burglary in progress etc.........sergeant said he was reluctant to send her anywhere on here own as she is 5ft 2 tall and weighs 7 stone wet thru......
If you called the police that night, I am afraid you were on your own.
That sounds like bad management, why would it need 4 PCs to watch 4 cells, could 1 or 2 not do the job? If 2 then why not the female PC as one of them? The desk Sgt is available for back up in emergency.
What about the sergeant getting out to cover jobs, the local traffic car working in the area as potential back up, was there no divisional tatical support car that could be utilised or dog unit in the area ?
Would it not have been a more efficient use of resources to have to WPC in the station with 3 men to back her up (or standing at the end of the flooded road in a dayglo jacket). I find this situation a little questionable....
It is frightening just how little police cover there is in reality. If the general public knew how stretched resources are they probably 'wouldn't sleep tight at night' !!
Would it not have been a more efficient use of resources to have to WPC in the station with 3 men to back her up (or standing at the end of the flooded road in a dayglo jacket). I find this situation a little questionable....
It is frightening just how little police cover there is in reality. If the general public knew how stretched resources are they probably 'wouldn't sleep tight at night' !!
NUTSKIE.. said:
It is frightening just how little police cover there is in reality. If the general public knew how stretched resources are they probably 'wouldn't sleep tight at night' !!
Perhaps if a larger chunk, if not all, of the money raised from speed cameras etc went to the police to be spent on the provision of more officers rather than into Gordon Brown's grubby grabbing little paws to be p1ssed away on a bloated civil service, then we might have rather better law and order than we have now and perhaps the public would not be so antagonistic towards attempts to control speeding!
mutt k said:
Perhaps if a larger chunk, if not all, of the money raised from speed cameras etc went to the police to be spent on the provision of more officers rather than into Gordon Brown's grubby grabbing little paws to be p1ssed away on a bloated civil service, then we might have rather better law and order than we have now...
Absolutely.
mutt k said:
...and perhaps the public would not be so antagonistic towards attempts to control speeding!
Hmm, I'm not sure about that bit.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
james_j said:
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6...
Exactly.
Those making the judgement weren't there at the time. Defending one's home and family should be a right, the rest can go spin.
Complete agreement there.
When somebody breaks into your home they should forfeit all rights as far as I am concerned, and they should have to show that they had done so specifically to render assistance in an emergency situation etc.
I do think the current law and application thereof is seriously unbalanced and long overdue for amendment.
It is all very well allowing the householder to use what the law calls reasonable force, but the burglar does not feel obliged to so confine himself.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
poorcardealer said:
Was speaking with a sergeant the other night..he was in charge of a nightshift of just 7 officers........at 11pm they arrested 4 known heroin users, upon taking them back to the station all 4 had at some time said they were suicidal.....the custody sergeant insisted each prisoner had their cell doors open with a police officer sat outside each watching them as per the rules............that left 3 officers for the night shift.........water main bursts on road, needs 2 officers to shut the road, they are tied up for 4 hours............that leaves one female officer with 2 years experience to cover domestics, assults, burglary in progress etc.........sergeant said he was reluctant to send her anywhere on here own as she is 5ft 2 tall and weighs 7 stone wet thru......
If you called the police that night, I am afraid you were on your own.
And there lies the story of every station of every division across the country in the Provinsial forces. Metropolitan forces fare much better of course!
What he did not tell you is that there are other resources available to back up the single female officer. There will ususally be at least 1 double crewed Roads Policing unit and an odd Dog Handler and hairy crew mate that the control room can use as back up to incidents if they are indeed not committed to 'other stuff' when the need arises.
If one of those 'suicidal
' prisoners takes a turn for the worse or manages to hurt themsleves whilst in custody, then its off to hospital for them with 2 officers to escort. There goes the only available female officer with one of the cell watch officers and no one out to respond to anything!Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff