Gym Newbie - Supplement question
Discussion
At the ripe old age of 30 I've decided that I need to look after myself a little bit better - years of microwave and Junk foods not the best.
I've been one of these people that's been able to eat anything really and always hovered around the same weight (12 & half stone, 6ft) although got a layer of insulation round the stomach now.
I'm quite active, do lots of walking with the dog, some cycling and ride an off road enduro motorbike on weekends.
I've decided I'd like to up my fitness levels and also gain some muscle/mass.
I've improved my diet although it still needs to be worked on but my question is this...
Are all these protein/bcaa etc etc supplements neccesary? Will I not see any 'gains' without taking all of these supplements?
I've definitely seen some improvements since going but people are telling me I should be taking pre workout/post workout as well as a million other things to help?
Is the main thing diet, get that sorted and the results will start to show?
I've been one of these people that's been able to eat anything really and always hovered around the same weight (12 & half stone, 6ft) although got a layer of insulation round the stomach now.
I'm quite active, do lots of walking with the dog, some cycling and ride an off road enduro motorbike on weekends.
I've decided I'd like to up my fitness levels and also gain some muscle/mass.
I've improved my diet although it still needs to be worked on but my question is this...
Are all these protein/bcaa etc etc supplements neccesary? Will I not see any 'gains' without taking all of these supplements?
I've definitely seen some improvements since going but people are telling me I should be taking pre workout/post workout as well as a million other things to help?
Is the main thing diet, get that sorted and the results will start to show?
maxxy5 said:
As you suggest, they're not necessary, you don't need protein shakes to build muscle. A lot of it is marketing. Training and a good general diet is way more important. Even the fabled post workout shake is not necessary. I would recommend you start with zero supplements.
Quite so. I wouldn't look at any supplements at least until you've been training for a while (>1 year) and are taking it fairly seriously i.e. lifting hard and heavy at least 4 times a week. Food is always better than supplements where possible.If you're serious about it you should get myfitnesspal and track your food. It will give you an honest view if what your current diet is like.
After a couple of weeks you will have enough data to know what changes are needed. You might benefit from protein shakes, but without knowing your diet no-one can say for sure.
Good luck!
After a couple of weeks you will have enough data to know what changes are needed. You might benefit from protein shakes, but without knowing your diet no-one can say for sure.
Good luck!
The only supplement i found necessary was protein, Its difficult trying to get the 1g of protein per 1lb of bodyweight.
Some will dispute this amount is required etc some say its the standard bodybuilding amount.
But there is only so much meat i can eat in a day so protein shakes fill the gap well.
Creatine i never noticed much difference.
ZMA I found gave me some weird dreams, Weather that means its working I have no idea. but cheap enough and i enjoy the weird dreams.
Multi vitamin is a staple, None of the fancy bodybuilding ones which require 5 pills a day at a million quid a tub, Just cheapo supermarket multi.
Vitamin D stand alone seems to help in not so sunny scotland,
Pre-workout is good for the days that you cant find the energy to go to the gym, You eventually cant sit still so you have to go to the gym, Although caffeine tolerances build up quickly.
Some omega pills if you dont get alot of healthy fats would be beneficial
Experiment with what you want, but if your diet isnt on point no supplement will make up for it.
Protein and multi vitamin would be what I would have regardless
Some will dispute this amount is required etc some say its the standard bodybuilding amount.
But there is only so much meat i can eat in a day so protein shakes fill the gap well.
Creatine i never noticed much difference.
ZMA I found gave me some weird dreams, Weather that means its working I have no idea. but cheap enough and i enjoy the weird dreams.
Multi vitamin is a staple, None of the fancy bodybuilding ones which require 5 pills a day at a million quid a tub, Just cheapo supermarket multi.
Vitamin D stand alone seems to help in not so sunny scotland,
Pre-workout is good for the days that you cant find the energy to go to the gym, You eventually cant sit still so you have to go to the gym, Although caffeine tolerances build up quickly.
Some omega pills if you dont get alot of healthy fats would be beneficial
Experiment with what you want, but if your diet isnt on point no supplement will make up for it.
Protein and multi vitamin would be what I would have regardless
paulwoof said:
The only supplement i found necessary was protein, Its difficult trying to get the 1g of protein per 1lb of bodyweight.
Some will dispute this amount is required etc some say its the standard bodybuilding amount.
Interesting, I don't struggle hitting 240g whilst cutting through food alone. What's your diet like? (I'm on 2700 cals)Some will dispute this amount is required etc some say its the standard bodybuilding amount.
also 1g per lb of lean bodyweight is adequate
Edited by smiffy180 on Tuesday 2nd June 00:59
I often don't get to eat proper healthy meals that are planned (3 out of 7 days) and have no problems with maintaining low BF% while increasing strength and muscle without any supps. As someone suggested, use MFP, then also try to tidy up your diet and follow some respected strength training routine eg 5x5.
If you can smell your pits and shower regularly, you probably eat enough protein.
I can always tell when others have been hitting the protein shakes as they smell like someone's dropped milk on their clothes and they haven't washed in weeks. Yes, if you're a gym regular, you do stink.
If you can smell your pits and shower regularly, you probably eat enough protein.
I can always tell when others have been hitting the protein shakes as they smell like someone's dropped milk on their clothes and they haven't washed in weeks. Yes, if you're a gym regular, you do stink.In short No.
If you are prepared and make an effort there should be no reason you can't get the right amount of protein in during the day. I can easily get 220g+ of protein a day from food excluding what i get from GOMAD. The only time i ever have a protein shake is if I know I'm not going to be able to get some proper food in for a few hours.
Breakfast: Fish and eggs or bacon and eggs plus buts
Mid morning Snacks hard boiled egg and fage yoghurt.
Lunch 1.5-2 Chicken/turkey breasts with Veg/Salad and nuts.
A bit of fruit for a mid afternoon snack and a Banana before I train.
Dinner will be a few salmon fillets, diced chicken/turkey, 400-500G of lean beef mince, a big steak and some veg plus some startchy carbs.
If you are prepared and make an effort there should be no reason you can't get the right amount of protein in during the day. I can easily get 220g+ of protein a day from food excluding what i get from GOMAD. The only time i ever have a protein shake is if I know I'm not going to be able to get some proper food in for a few hours.
Breakfast: Fish and eggs or bacon and eggs plus buts
Mid morning Snacks hard boiled egg and fage yoghurt.
Lunch 1.5-2 Chicken/turkey breasts with Veg/Salad and nuts.
A bit of fruit for a mid afternoon snack and a Banana before I train.
Dinner will be a few salmon fillets, diced chicken/turkey, 400-500G of lean beef mince, a big steak and some veg plus some startchy carbs.
Still early days for me but I bought a tub of Gold Standard Whey as realistically getting 200g plus of quality protein from food doesn't happen, thinking back to when I used to train in my twenties I think that is perhaps why I used to end up disappointed, that and not going enough, not working hard enough.
An Egg is 13g, a Chicken breast is 21g, last nights meal was Pasta, sauce and Meatballs, I had 4 Meatballs which are about 4g each, I could have more but we already have to make two packs to feed the family (Wife, 3 teenagers and me) and it goes from expensive to ridiculous, quality protein costs so I supplement with the Whey a little, still probably not getting enough.
Also, when at work, not really convenient to start making anything complicated, the sandwich shop generally just sells crap laden with Mayonnaise, any protein is in tiny portions, rationed like its war time and they charge top price.
So, at the moment I am having one or two protein shakes a day, or add it to porridge. I am trying to go for a protein shake if I get hungry later on as otherwise I am in the fridge eating crap, or stuff like crisps.
I think a lot of it is just a planning thing but for when you cant, the Protein powder is a godsend.
An Egg is 13g, a Chicken breast is 21g, last nights meal was Pasta, sauce and Meatballs, I had 4 Meatballs which are about 4g each, I could have more but we already have to make two packs to feed the family (Wife, 3 teenagers and me) and it goes from expensive to ridiculous, quality protein costs so I supplement with the Whey a little, still probably not getting enough.
Also, when at work, not really convenient to start making anything complicated, the sandwich shop generally just sells crap laden with Mayonnaise, any protein is in tiny portions, rationed like its war time and they charge top price.
So, at the moment I am having one or two protein shakes a day, or add it to porridge. I am trying to go for a protein shake if I get hungry later on as otherwise I am in the fridge eating crap, or stuff like crisps.
I think a lot of it is just a planning thing but for when you cant, the Protein powder is a godsend.
There is nothing wrong with using some proven supplements like protein powder to reach your daily goal. It is only wrong when you substitute food for supplements.
Most of the supplements on the market are pure marketing with very little proven science but protein powder, creatine and a few others are proven beyond doubt if used correctly in conjunction with a good diet.
You first need to understand what your daily requirements are in protein/fats and carbs and then if you need to assist in getting to your protein requirement by using protein powder then there is no problem in that as long as you are not directly substituting supplements for good quality foods.
It's also worth considering a fast acting protein with some carbs during the golden hour after training.
I use protein powder, vitamin C, vitamin D and ZMA to help with sleeping.
Most of the supplements on the market are pure marketing with very little proven science but protein powder, creatine and a few others are proven beyond doubt if used correctly in conjunction with a good diet.
You first need to understand what your daily requirements are in protein/fats and carbs and then if you need to assist in getting to your protein requirement by using protein powder then there is no problem in that as long as you are not directly substituting supplements for good quality foods.
It's also worth considering a fast acting protein with some carbs during the golden hour after training.
I use protein powder, vitamin C, vitamin D and ZMA to help with sleeping.
I've been training for years and I've only ever used the basic whey protein.
When you are lifting to increase muscle mass, the rule of thumb is to consume between 1g to 2g per lb of body weight.
There have been many studies on this and a lot of people say this holds no water.
The only way you can be sure is to try with and without. I did. And tbh, i gained more with the protein.
I weigh 220lbs, even if I went for the minimum at 1g, thats still 220g of protein i need a day. considering a whole egg has 6g of protein in it and 100g chicken breast has 21g of protein, I'd have to be eating all the time to get the protein in. Now imagine, if I was aiming for the 2g per lb of body weight?
Thats where the protein shakes come in. 2 25g scoops with 300ml water will give you 60+g of protein.
But as some of the other members have mentioned. Try without the protein. Then after about 3months, try with 1g of protein per lb... and start to notice the difference.
My advice is to write everything down in a diary. How much you lift, reps etc. While you are still lifting low weights, this is the time to get you form right. Getting it correct now, will make sure its correct when the weight gets heavy. Resulting in good gains without injury.
Fire away other questions you may have.
Oh, one last thing, look into stronglifts 5x5 program. Its well structured for beginners.
Regards
When you are lifting to increase muscle mass, the rule of thumb is to consume between 1g to 2g per lb of body weight.
There have been many studies on this and a lot of people say this holds no water.
The only way you can be sure is to try with and without. I did. And tbh, i gained more with the protein.
I weigh 220lbs, even if I went for the minimum at 1g, thats still 220g of protein i need a day. considering a whole egg has 6g of protein in it and 100g chicken breast has 21g of protein, I'd have to be eating all the time to get the protein in. Now imagine, if I was aiming for the 2g per lb of body weight?
Thats where the protein shakes come in. 2 25g scoops with 300ml water will give you 60+g of protein.
But as some of the other members have mentioned. Try without the protein. Then after about 3months, try with 1g of protein per lb... and start to notice the difference.
My advice is to write everything down in a diary. How much you lift, reps etc. While you are still lifting low weights, this is the time to get you form right. Getting it correct now, will make sure its correct when the weight gets heavy. Resulting in good gains without injury.
Fire away other questions you may have.
Oh, one last thing, look into stronglifts 5x5 program. Its well structured for beginners.
Regards
ashr1uk said:
I've been training for years and I've only ever used the basic whey protein.
When you are lifting to increase muscle mass, the rule of thumb is to consume between 1g to 2g per lb of body weight.
There have been many studies on this and a lot of people say this holds no water.
The only way you can be sure is to try with and without. I did. And tbh, i gained more with the protein.
I weigh 220lbs, even if I went for the minimum at 1g, thats still 220g of protein i need a day. considering a whole egg has 6g of protein in it and 100g chicken breast has 21g of protein, I'd have to be eating all the time to get the protein in. Now imagine, if I was aiming for the 2g per lb of body weight?
Thats where the protein shakes come in. 2 25g scoops with 300ml water will give you 60+g of protein.
But as some of the other members have mentioned. Try without the protein. Then after about 3months, try with 1g of protein per lb... and start to notice the difference.
My advice is to write everything down in a diary. How much you lift, reps etc. While you are still lifting low weights, this is the time to get you form right. Getting it correct now, will make sure its correct when the weight gets heavy. Resulting in good gains without injury.
Fire away other questions you may have.
Oh, one last thing, look into stronglifts 5x5 program. Its well structured for beginners.
Regards
Sorry but that's wrong. When you are lifting to increase muscle mass, the rule of thumb is to consume between 1g to 2g per lb of body weight.
There have been many studies on this and a lot of people say this holds no water.
The only way you can be sure is to try with and without. I did. And tbh, i gained more with the protein.
I weigh 220lbs, even if I went for the minimum at 1g, thats still 220g of protein i need a day. considering a whole egg has 6g of protein in it and 100g chicken breast has 21g of protein, I'd have to be eating all the time to get the protein in. Now imagine, if I was aiming for the 2g per lb of body weight?
Thats where the protein shakes come in. 2 25g scoops with 300ml water will give you 60+g of protein.
But as some of the other members have mentioned. Try without the protein. Then after about 3months, try with 1g of protein per lb... and start to notice the difference.
My advice is to write everything down in a diary. How much you lift, reps etc. While you are still lifting low weights, this is the time to get you form right. Getting it correct now, will make sure its correct when the weight gets heavy. Resulting in good gains without injury.
Fire away other questions you may have.
Oh, one last thing, look into stronglifts 5x5 program. Its well structured for beginners.
Regards
Protein is more important when cutting to minimise muscle loss you also need to make sure you don't lose too fast as well.
It's also 1g per lb of lean body mass not actual body mass. I'll also assume you got bigger because you were in a calorie surplus - did you adjust carbs/fats when you increased protein?
And 2x 25g scoops with water cannot give you 60g+ of protein, with milk it can but would have to be high% protein I.e 95% to acheive that.
Edited by smiffy180 on Thursday 4th June 12:41
Hierarchy of Nutritional Priorities
-Calories
- -Macronutrients
- - -Micronutrients, Hydration & Fibre
- - - -Meal timing and frequency
- - - - -Supplements
I'll bet 99.9% of gym goers don't have the first 4 nailed but will spend all their time, energy and cash worrying about BCAA formulas.
The only exception to this (for me personally) is whey protein. Very useful for hitting protein targets (min 0.8g per lb lean bodyweight).
-Calories
- -Macronutrients
- - -Micronutrients, Hydration & Fibre
- - - -Meal timing and frequency
- - - - -Supplements
I'll bet 99.9% of gym goers don't have the first 4 nailed but will spend all their time, energy and cash worrying about BCAA formulas.
The only exception to this (for me personally) is whey protein. Very useful for hitting protein targets (min 0.8g per lb lean bodyweight).
This is an article I have in my favourites which you might like - in summary, 0.82g/lb of protein is more than enough. Rounding up this chimes with the 1g/lb that most suggest and to newbies I usually just say 1g/lb for ease as well.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-o...
Myfitnesspal is also useful for tracking weight & waist which you will want to monitor.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-o...
Myfitnesspal is also useful for tracking weight & waist which you will want to monitor.
One thing this makes me realise is that a lot of people dont get that much protein
Breakfast = Large bowl of Sugary cereal, 2 or 3 g
Lunch, Bag of crisps 2g, 2 round white bread sandwich with cheese salad 15 g, 4 bar Kit Kat 2.5 g
Evening meal, chicken breast 21g, chips 4g and peas 5g
Glass of Merlot 0.1 g
Bag of Haribo 2 g
Milk in brews 8g
Say 65g, and I am being generous with the chicken breast, probably enough for someone small-ish that isnt doing any training but can see how throwing a few more Eggs, some Porridge and a few shakes can bump it up to decent levels.
I have been told that too much Protein can be hard on your Kidneys, is that true ?
Also, I reckon our bodies tell us through cravings what we need but we tend to be tuned in to fast release carbs, there was a girl at work that had biscuits for breakfast every day and added sugar to Frosties !
Breakfast = Large bowl of Sugary cereal, 2 or 3 g
Lunch, Bag of crisps 2g, 2 round white bread sandwich with cheese salad 15 g, 4 bar Kit Kat 2.5 g
Evening meal, chicken breast 21g, chips 4g and peas 5g
Glass of Merlot 0.1 g
Bag of Haribo 2 g
Milk in brews 8g
Say 65g, and I am being generous with the chicken breast, probably enough for someone small-ish that isnt doing any training but can see how throwing a few more Eggs, some Porridge and a few shakes can bump it up to decent levels.
I have been told that too much Protein can be hard on your Kidneys, is that true ?
Also, I reckon our bodies tell us through cravings what we need but we tend to be tuned in to fast release carbs, there was a girl at work that had biscuits for breakfast every day and added sugar to Frosties !
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